China Is Africa's New Colonial Overlord, Says Famed Primate Researcher Jane Goodall (cons, country)

[Motion]

Originally Posted by ChefRamsey

The Chinese built elaborate palaces and the Great Wall of China. They're genetically and culturally/socially similar to Japanese, Koreans who also have stories cultures, religions and societies. Even now they dominate STEM fields in Asia and here in the US/Canada/UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

Africa has never had this historical advantage. Africa has had no inventions, no meaningful empires that stem outside of Africa and no contribution to society in social science, science, math or engineering.

Ok but one thing Africa has are many of the minerals needed to make those technical inventions work. If it wasn't for African minerals we wouldn't have smartphones,laptops and other technical inventions. African governments need to get serious about managing these minerals properly so that they can be used to develop their countries.

[scobby]

Originally Posted by Motion

First,people need to keep in mind that the Chinese gov't is a very oppressive corrupt government itself. So it shouldn't be surprising that they are willing to get in deals with corrupt African governments.

Second, Africa as whole won't improve until African governments become more democratic and implement economic policies that will allow their private sectors to develop. There are still too many regimes and wrong headed economic policies in place across Africa.

Not true and misleading.

1-China Gov't is very oppressive ? who else Russia ? Why would europeans want to deal with african corrupt regimes if the europeans were not corrupt themselves ?

2-Not true,democracy doesn't guarantee freedom or the absence of corruption,the most corrupt regimes in the world are in the west,not in Africa.

3-Too many regimes ? You want to reduce the number of African countries ? is it a new form of colonialism ?

4-The private sector alone can do nothing to Africa,it has to be spearheaded by the government.

5-Chinese cooperation and investment in Africa are more necessary and needed than europeans.

[cachibatches]

Originally Posted by ChefRamsey

I'm not making excuses for the Africans.

China and Africa are not similar. You're thinking too narrow and too recent.

China has historically been a very productive people. Their people have invented fireworks, paper, printing, the compass, gunpowder. From the dawn of their conception, China's diaspora's culture is highly sophisticated and advanced. The Mongol empire is one of the biggest in history. The Chinese built elaborate palaces and the Great Wall of China. They're genetically and culturally/socially similar to Japanese, Koreans who also have stories cultures, religions and societies. Even now they dominate STEM fields in Asia and here in the US/Canada/UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ese_inventions

Africa has never had this historical advantage. Africa has had no inventions, no meaningful empires that stem outside of Africa and no contribution to society in social science, science, math or engineering. Even if history is hiding some African inventions from us, either someone else did it better, faster, sooner or popularized it better...or it was erased from history. In economic terms, they don't have comparative advantage.

My point is still the same. It's just not right to treat these people like chickens used to make lunch. Stop exploiting them. The world's environmental problems will be enough. China should conduct business with Africa rather than exploiting them through economic and social slyness. Stop funding the "government" and the rebels. Stop exploiting African workers like Mexicans in the US.

The Mongols were a foreign dynasty who treated the Chinese brutally, as were the Manchus and the British.

You prove the man's point.

Also, what is the "historical advantage" that you are talking about, other than the dynamism of the people?

I am actually cheering for Africa and point to some countries that are doing quite well, but you make some strange arguments.

[Motion]

Originally Posted by scobby

2-Not true,democracy doesn't guarantee freedom or the absence of corruption,the most corrupt regimes in the world are in the west,not in Africa.


4-The private sector alone can do nothing to Africa,it has to be spearheaded by the government.

5-Chinese cooperation and investment in Africa are more necessary and needed than europeans.

You sound like you're in denile about the corruption/repression found in China and across Africa.


Democracy is better for development because through a free press that comes with most democracies you can more easily expose corruption and remove corrupt leadership.

Freedom eludes African media - Al Jazeera Blogs



I'm for a mixed economy that leans towards capitalism.


African governments could be developing their own countries if they would just stop looting their country's treasuries.

Corruption: A Menace to Africa

Is Ms. Goodall is only upset because China, and not the West, has more chips in Africa now?

Rather than being upset that economic exploitation may be happening, she's upset her people aren't the ones doing it.

Africans, for the most part, blame Africans for any lack of development. Telling people what they do and don't think, are we?

As an African I can tell you that the Chinese-African relationship isn't discussed lightly in my circles. There's a certain caution with which economic affairs are approached...you learn from the past, I guess.

The Chinese, like the Europeans before them, will be forced out of Africa should they cross certain lines. However, the difference between Europe and China is that Europe wanted human capital as well...China has that in abundance. Africa has little to no care about the well being of China or the West, beyond the humanitarian aspect of it of course (in that I'm guessing many would care)...still, mutually beneficial economic relationships are the priority and China represents that more to Africa than the West does, or has. Why should Africa be sympathetic to Western business when just the other day they were in Libya and Mali doing who knows what? Are you upset that the hand that you were looking to feed you stopped doing so after you bit it? Go find another hand, I'd say. Or treat this one better...

Yet you won't because the European mindset is that of inherent superiority to Africans...and a cultural adjustment to that degree isn't likely. And it's fine...you can think yourselves superior..in the meantime, will be busy keeping on living. What is the common capital rhetoric? Competition breeds growth? Well now you have competition.

Africa is sitting on its economies and resources because we're not stupid enough to exploit our lands and leave nothing to our children. I don't see why the world is pushing Africa towards its own economic production/exploitation. You want us to end up like U.S. or China, having to look for resources to support ourselves, killing millions in the process of war, or else attempting to exploit other lands?

I'd rather pass on my land and resources to my children while growing our own economies carefully and meaningfully.

[Motion]

Originally Posted by Guest

Africa is sitting on its economies and resources because we're not stupid enough to exploit our lands and leave nothing to our children. I don't see why the world is pushing Africa towards its own economic production/exploitation. You want us to end up like U.S. or China, having to look for resources to support ourselves, killing millions in the process of war, or else attempting to exploit other lands?

I'd rather pass on my land and resources to my children while growing our own economies carefully and meaningfully.

Could you clarify this a little more? Isn't one reason Africans aren't exlpoiting it's lands is because things like property rights aren't clear and enforced in many African countries? Also isn't bad economic policies contributing to Africa not developing? I mean the red tape in many Africa countries is hampering business activity. It takes too long to get a business license in many African countries.

Red tape, bribes strangle growth | African Business | BDlive

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Guest

Is Ms. Goodall is only upset because China, and not the West, has more chips in Africa now?

Rather than being upset that economic exploitation may be happening, she's upset her people aren't the ones doing it.

Africans, for the most part, blame Africans for any lack of development. Telling people what they do and don't think, are we?

As an African I can tell you that the Chinese-African relationship isn't discussed lightly in my circles. There's a certain caution with which economic affairs are approached...you learn from the past, I guess.

The Chinese, like the Europeans before them, will be forced out of Africa should they cross certain lines. However, the difference between Europe and China is that Europe wanted human capital as well...China has that in abundance. Africa has little to no care about the well being of China or the West, beyond the humanitarian aspect of it of course (in that I'm guessing many would care)...still, mutually beneficial economic relationships are the priority and China represents that more to Africa than the West does, or has. Why should Africa be sympathetic to Western business when just the other day they were in Libya and Mali doing who knows what? Are you upset that the hand that you were looking to feed you stopped doing so after you bit it? Go find another hand, I'd say. Or treat this one better...

Yet you won't because the European mindset is that of inherent superiority to Africans...and a cultural adjustment to that degree isn't likely. And it's fine...you can think yourselves superior..in the meantime, will be busy keeping on living. What is the common capital rhetoric? Competition breeds growth? Well now you have competition.

Africa is sitting on its economies and resources because we're not stupid enough to exploit our lands and leave nothing to our children. I don't see why the world is pushing Africa towards its own economic production/exploitation. You want us to end up like U.S. or China, having to look for resources to support ourselves, killing millions in the process of war, or else attempting to exploit other lands?

I'd rather pass on my land and resources to my children while growing our own economies carefully and meaningfully.

I am glad to see this, as this seems to show that self determination and caution towards this relationship is taken seriously in Africa. I'd love to see African nations form an economy on their own terms and in the way that they want to create a prosperous economy.

[Motion]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

I'd love to see African nations form an economy on their own terms and in the way that they want to create a prosperous economy.

Too many African countries aren't democratic enough to make that happen.

I'm all for African nations deciding on their own course but to make that happen you need freedom in the form of political,economic and press freedoms. These freedoms are lacking in many African countries.

Africa's rocky road to democracy - CNN.com

[scobby]

Originally Posted by Motion

Too many African countries aren't democratic enough to make that happen.

I'm all for African nations deciding on their own course but to make that happen you need freedom in the form of political,economic and press freedoms. These freedoms are lacking in many African countries.

Africa's rocky road to democracy - CNN.com

In Africa,democracy is not the issue at all,stability is the key to success,is China in need of democracy to develop its economy ?
Is Russia a democratic country ?
I don't think,you're for africans independence,you're criticizing african for their cooperation with China and not with the west,that's your real agenda.
Freedom is not a necessary condition for african development.

If you were for democracy and freedom,then you'll be talking about urgent questions like the colonization of Palestine and Western Sahara.

[Motion]

Originally Posted by scobby

In Africa,democracy is not the issue at all,stability is the key to success

With democracy Africa will have fewer coups. Authoritarian rule in post colonial Africa has contributed to one coup after another on the continent.

is China in need of democracy to develop its economy?

Interesting article. This author says China has much it can learn from South Korea on the role of democracy in improving it's economy. South Korea had its period of authoritarian rulers. The country didn't really improve until it become more innovative. That innovation came better under democracy.


Is democracy necessary for economic success? | TIME.com