Living in Johannesburg or Pretoria, South Africa... (crime, safety, country)
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I have visited Johannesburg. Some areas are safer than others. People with means (money) live in gated communities. It is not a city for walking around on foot. You really need a car to get around from place to place there as I don't think the public transportation is very developed or reliable.
Pretoria is far safer. Johannesburg has an efficient police force but are outgunned and overcome by the amount of criminals. Gated and electric wired surrounding fences abound, panic buttons with immediate transmission to police/security companies are prevalent. Panic buttons in cars and garages, plus portable ones for carrying around the garden/by the pool.
Walking in the downtown area of Johannesburg is asking for problems, even in broad daylight. Pretoria's downtown area is a lot safer.
Agree with Chava61 - the public transport infrastructure (even with the investment made for the World Cup) is an absolute disaster and non existent/efficient. You will have to buy a safe, reliable car (polarize windows against hijackings). Everything must be stored in the trunk of your car if you are driving.
Unfortunately the value of life in Johannesburg particularly is of little significance to the criminal. Resistance or sudden movements can be fatal. Then again, you have to hope that they are not on drugs, where automatically things get nastier.
Criminals in South Africa never act individually.
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Last edited by Cornerguy1; 02-04-2010 at 05:47 PM..
Pretoria is far safer. Johannesburg has an efficient police force but are outgunned and overcome by the amount of criminals. Gated and electric wired surrounding fences abound, panic buttons with immediate transmission to police/security companies are prevalent. Panic buttons in cars and garages, plus portable ones for carrying around the garden/by the pool.
Walking in the downtown area of Johannesburg is asking for problems, even in broad daylight. Pretoria's downtown area is a lot safer.
Agree with Chava61 - the public transport infrastructure (even with the investment made for the World Cup) is an absolute disaster and non existent/efficient. You will have to buy a safe, reliable car (polarize windows against hijackings). Everything must be stored in the trunk of your car if you are driving.
Unfortunately the value of life in Johannesburg particularly is of little significance to the criminal. Resistance or sudden movements can be fatal. Then again, you have to hope that they are not on drugs, where automatically things get nastier.
Criminals in South Africa never act individually.
Moderator cut: do not post copyrighted material....use a link instead
what about capetown? dont know if OP is considering,but i've heard it slightly safer than Joburg,although getting less safe overall...
Both Johannesburg and Pretoria is magical places! It all depends on what you reasons are for wanting to live there. The People responding above sounds very negative and narrow minded. Of course safety is a factor.. Livening in any 3rd world country will always have its dangers. The chaos in 3rd world cities is what give it’s the vibrancy and edginess that allot of people enjoy. I grew up in Johannesburg, during my youth I have been privileges to lived in many cities in all over the world. Currently I base myself in Pretoria. I am a white Afrikaans speaking female and I have never felt threatened and unsafe. I refuse to let my environment to scare me and I live with abundance amongst the beauty and unattractive elements of chaos in my 3rd world city.If its safety and security you want form a wealthy nanny state – than rather opt for Australia. In the end they desperately need to row their population. South Africa doesn’t need another expat scared to pits because he unfortunately took the wrong off ramp from the M1
Jozanne... I agree. It still is amagical country. My point is: You, like myself, have been raised in and on this continent. We both understand the dangers, threats, and manner to deal with them because we, as South Africans, have been subject to them for so long.
There is no narrow-mindedness at all and what I am trying to indicate is that someone going to, - or thinking of moving to, - South Africa shoud not arrive expecting somethng similar to their home town.
The OP should visit South Africa, spend a couple of months, look around. Not from the windows of a five star hotel and /or perspective of a tourist; - but as a man-on-the-street. Rent an apartment for two weeks /month in each city, do a daily commute (you can look around for employment/ retirement/ business opportunities etc) - get the "feel - smell - heart" of the country.
Then you will be able to decide. But be aware. More so than in many other continents. Not all.
and... South Africa does not need not only another expat taking the wrong offramp on the M1, it need to have an efficient police force with the privileges and rights to enforce the justice system, disarm and apply the reduction of firearms in the country, and have the Goverment make a concentrated and public effort to fight the gangs responsible for the organized crime.
But then - on the other hand, - it's way more profitable for the Government to cast a blind eye on crime......
Iam saddened that FIFA has authorized the World Cup 2010 in South Africa where no effort, proof on improvement of public safety measures, and an attempt made to give credit to the abilities of the government to contain the very real and prevalent threats that the WC 2010 visitors will be exposed to.
The statistics will speak for themselves........
God Bless South Africa.... but a very hard line must be drawn on what is the reality and what you are trying to indicate.
Nanny state..... that was invented in Africa by the colonialists who ran after they had sucked dry the riches of the continent but could no longer contain the demon they had created
I've seen a lot of documentaries of the Joburg Flying Squad at work(many of these videos are available on youtube to watch) and it is quite amazing the level of crime in Joburg and the fact the main business district is overrun with squatters and criminals. A lot of it not south african nationals but illegal immigrants from Nigeria and other countries up north.
Have wanted to visit for 10 years but can't get my head around all the crime. Afghanistan is probably safer.
J'burg had 18,000 homicides last YEAR - that's 50 per day.
I believe it's actual 50 a day for the whole country, not Joburg.
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