Kent Stae May 4 Memories (Akron, Youngstown: real estate market, how much, houses)

[maplelady]

Does anyone have any memories of this day they would share here. I am fascinated by this subject and have read everything on the subject, seen the documentaries, etc.

I hope to attend the 50 th anniversary in May 2020.

Any memories or re-told stories they have heard, local feelings about it today etc.

Is the event still widely debated and talked about in the area ? Do the local schools teach about it ?

Do locals feel they were fairly represented in the Michner book ?

I have a million questions, but I would rather just hear input.

[Caleb Longstreet]

I remember coming home after school in 5th grade and watching it on TV with my oldest brother. It was surreal. Of course, I was young enough to not fully grasp what was happening until some of my older siblings discussed it, Walter Cronkite elaborated on it, and the videos kept streaming so to speak. I remember seeing that errant tear gas cannister flying in the arc....sunny day if I recall correctly....

For the next 30 days, Kent and Akron were basically under National Guard and a curfew was in effect. Being a kid, like most kids, we hid between the houses hiding from the patrolling jeeps looking for curfew violators......everyone was talking about it....my Godparents lived in Kent about 30 miles away.

The shooting went pretty quick. Firing I think 57 or so rounds of 30-06. Amazingly enough, most missed or were purposely aimed high. However, at least 4 found their fatal mark. To watch that humid haze at sunset and the National Guard patrols as a kid was exciting at first until it started to set in at what really, really happened.

Those that were older and of college age were pretty emotional and intense about it. The parents and older folks in society were saddened but, more reserve. I don't think anyone could believe it at first.

There was a National Guard Armory on Hawkins Road near where I grew up. I remember we used to play on that mounted Sherman Tank that was on the grounds. Sometime in the 70's they took it away. It was quite an attraction as a kid. Not so much longer after Kent State.

Maybe we just grew up. Maybe it was a tad of the loss of innocence all kids feel at some point. Mercifully it isn't often that it is something like this. The more I study what happened it seemed that it would be impossible that it could happen at all. The guard did warn that they were carrying loaded weapons. Watching the kids approach in a sweeping left flank on that famous tv shot was reminiscent of a civil war engagement you might see on TV....the cannister flew, the smoke was thick, and the rifles opened up. I think that perhaps the students should have probably not amassed in such great numbers but, it was the Viet Nam War. Everyone had a side.

In the end, and this is just my opinion, I think some of the guards panicked, some took steady aim, and the rest probably shot over the kids heads. However, facing rifles that you know are loaded is simply never a good idea. Suppose a guard had tripped when walking backwards? As we all know, never face a loaded weapon under ANY circumstance. The kids might have thought better about that.

What I would rather hear is a guardsman's thoughts. What were THEY thinking? Did they really feel threatened? Do they feel any remorse? Same for those that marched. What did they think when the bullets started flying? Do they feel any remorse for having gotten caught up in a march against troops with loaded weapons? Do they feel guilty they lived and others died?

Only those that were on that knoll that day can really bring any weight to this discussion. Me? I was just a kid with an anemic understanding of the whole incident. I've had 43 years to think about it. I can tell you as each May passes, for the most part, I think about it. That lazy arc of tear gas cannister flying and the pop! pop! pop! of rifles and the scramble in the cloud of gas.

All of this in Kent Ohio....this wasn't Berkely, this wasn't Columbia, the weather underground were no where to be found, the black panthers?....on TV only.......Kent Ohio? Surreal. 4 dead in Ohio....indeed.

[maplelady]

Caleb,

Thanks for posting. I have read your oilder posts on other threads about this with interest. This subject is fascinating to me and I am not sure why. i was ten when it happened, and a Canadian. I have met many draft dodgers in my life, had some as teachers. I think my interest is partly due to my interest with all things Ohio, that middle of the country mystique about a place which on the surface, would have no mystique.

I understand that some famous musicians were right there near the gunfire , the founding member of Devo, who was an SDS member and Chrissie Hynde. Both were very close to the fallen students and both were from Akron.


Have you read the Mitchner book ? It portrayed the Akron area a redneck and vigilante after the incident.

Have you ever gone to the campus to visit the memorials or gone to any May 4 ceremonies ? I understand Oliver Stone spoke this year...perhaps he will make a movie about this.

Iread on earlier threads all the ballistic evidence, etc and have read so many accounts, reports, statements and seen the Kruppe tape. It does seem as important as the Zapruder tape. Another grassy knoll...

My own feeling is that there was confusion and if they were really aiming there would have been many more dead. I do think the students were mostly out too see what was going on. I think there was huge resentment amongst Guard toward college demonstrations about the war. I think this event became the touchstone of war being lost in the living rooms of Americans.. I think that Kent became far more known that the other incident in the south because this was the NE and there was a greater mass of media, population, and outrage amongst the Jewish community over the fact that 3 of the 4 kids were Jewish.

When I read the Mitchner book, ( I refer to it because it was written by a famouir author with no connection to the events, who went there for a year to research, the book was widely read and some of the misconceptions and innaccuracies remain viewd as facts, but all in all, the seminal work on the event and the times) I am struck by how much society has changed. How a persons hair length could get them in trouble or how people were branded hippies and assumed to be all the same. Funny when I look at the pictures, how the styles could very much be from today.

Aside from the politics and the logistics of the attack I am very interested in any memories people have. I am interested to know if peoplem stillm talk about it in coffee shops and family rooms. I would love to hear from people who were on campus that day but also from seniors who maybe had businesses damaged in the Friday night downtown. 1970 was so long ago now in one persons life. The college kids of the day are now in their 60's and many individuals central to the event are now passed on. I think of the people who tried to quell the event and prevent or minimize the damage, such a Prof. Lewis. I ubderstand he was still teaching at Kent at least a few years ago.

[JR_C]

I wish I had more to tell you, but I was born in '77. I studied architecture at KSU, though, and the architecture program is located in Taylor Hall. (it will be moving to a new building, soon) So, we were exposed to the legacy of the shootings for the entire time we were there.

I'll share 2 little anecdotes that were told to me.

First was from a professor who was usually tough as nails, and was generally disliked by his students. (he was a student at the time of the shooting) He broke into tears when telling us about how they found one of the bullets embedded in the engine block of a car in the parking lot. He wondered why they didn't use rubber bullets, or something.

The other anecdote was from the father of my last roommate. He was on campus at the time, but wasn't near the event. He said that exams were made take-home. He freely admitted to cheating, because he was sure all those hippies were cheating.

[maplelady]

JR _C

Thanks for the response. I have some questions if you nwould loke to answer them :

1. You say you were exposed to the legacy, iy was only 3 years later you arrived there. Did you feel it could happen again ? he war was not over.

2. Was journalism still in taylor when you were there ?

3. How was the yown vs. gown relationship when you were there ?

4. Was the frat house area dismantled or does it still exist ?

5. Why did you choose KSU ?

6. On a daily basis do students look at the sites around Prentiss and taylor ?

7. When you were there, did you participate in any May 4 activities ?

Bonus question : How is life in Youngstown ? ( Sandy Sheuerr was from Boardman , you probably know this )

[maplelady]

Sorry for the typing should be town vs. gown.
Did you live on campus ? Where ?

Also, sorry, you said you were born in 1977. not graduating from KSU in 77. So I will ask how you think it prevades daily life there. The school really has become a much bigger and well respected university. I read somewhere that it was rated 2-- in the world, that is impressive for a small former normal school in small town Ohio.

When you tell people you went to Kent State, does it register ?

[maplelady]

Again, sorry that should say ranked 200 in the world.

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by maplelady

JR _C

Thanks for the response. I have some questions if you nwould loke to answer them :

1. You say you were exposed to the legacy, iy was only 3 years later you arrived there. Did you feel it could happen again ? he war was not over.

2. Was journalism still in taylor when you were there ?

Yes.

When the architecture program moves to it's new building, I'm not sure if journalism will take over the rest of the building, or if something else will move in.

3. How was the yown vs. gown relationship when you were there ?

I'm not really sure. I think the locals were occasionally annoyed by college students when they had a loud party. But that's to be expected anywhere.

4. Was the frat house area dismantled or does it still exist ?

I don't really know where the frat house area is/was. I was never interested in fraternities.

5. Why did you choose KSU ?

It had the best architecture program in Ohio, at the time. (I'm sure someone could argue this point, but it's what I believed at the time.)

6. On a daily basis do students look at the sites around Prentiss and taylor ?

Generally, no. I'd say it's the same as any site where something significant happened in recent history. If you live nearby, it becomes part of the landscape.

7. When you were there, did you participate in any May 4 activities ?

Not intentionally. It's kind of hard to miss, when most of your classes are in Taylor Hall, though.

Bonus question : How is life in Youngstown ? ( Sandy Sheuerr was from Boardman , you probably know this )

I like it here. You get some of the benefits of city life and small town life. There are also great amenities, like Mill Creek Park, Stambaugh Auditorium, etc. And finally, because the real estate market is still lousy, I can afford to follow my life-long dream of restoring a great old house.

Originally Posted by maplelady

Sorry for the typing should be town vs. gown.
Did you live on campus ? Where ?

I lived in Verder Hall, next to Prentice, for the first 4 years, and then moved to Johnson Hall for my 5th year.

Also, sorry, you said you were born in 1977. not graduating from KSU in 77. So I will ask how you think it prevades daily life there. The school really has become a much bigger and well respected university. I read somewhere that it was rated 2-- in the world, that is impressive for a small former normal school in small town Ohio.

Not sure how to express this; I think KSU keeps a legacy of hippy/counterculture/alternative lifestyle, that isn't as prevalent at other local universities.

When you tell people you went to Kent State, does it register ?

Sure, I think. But I'm rarely asked about it because it's obvious I wasn't there.

[maplelady]

Thanks for the responses. I am interested that you observe that KSU cintinues to keep the hippy legacy. I agree, in that there is a certain group who have made a living off this. I do not think the KSU admin has treid to cultivate this, as for a lond time they tried to minimize this. Now, the vision I see from far away is of a very preppy, tech savy community oriented university.

Taylor was the journalism school when May 4 happened. So many new buildings have been bulit since.

They should have put the Memorial Centre, just officially opened, in Taylor or Prentice.

I understood that all undergrads had to take a short seminar on May 4.

So touching how you said it was hard to avoid the May 4 observances since you has to get to Taylor. That sound so much like what so many kids were trying to do that day in 1970, just get to class. I believe that is what Sandy and Bill were trying to do.

I feel very badly about all the negativity one hears about Youngstown. Glad you were able to return home and live the life you wanted. the old houses are lovely.

[L0ve]

My mother attended KSU when it happened. She was off campus when it happened, but her room mate was there. That is all she ever mentioned about it.