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Old 07-21-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Fort Payne Alabama
2,558 posts, read 2,859,651 times
Reputation: 5014

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wharton View Post
Since basic concepts elude you, your opinion on the report of a leading expert in world poverty is probably of little value.
A leading UN expert is an expert on Alabama and knows more that the residents of the state, surely you jest! Of course I'm missed the fact that you are a Alabama Coastal Snowbird, sort of like staying in the Holiday Inn Express!

Quote:
There are multiple sources in the news recently, including an Alabama county level official, who admit that dumping sewage ON THE GROUND is common in the poorer rural areas of ALABAMA. Dumping human waste on the ground is a serious health issue, and has NOTHING to do with installing an on-site sewage system that has one, or more in ground septic tanks.
Links please.......
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Old 07-21-2019, 12:22 PM
 
23,509 posts, read 69,890,838 times
Reputation: 48849
Quote:
Originally Posted by wharton View Post
You have got to be playing dumb here, right? PLEASE tell me that this is a failed attempt at trolling? I would find it hard to believe that anybody, with above a third grade education, would equate dumping raw sewage on the ground with having a functioning, in ground, on site sewage system. Since basic concepts elude you, your opinion on the report of a leading expert in world poverty is probably of little value.

There are multiple sources in the news recently, including an Alabama county level official, who admit that dumping sewage ON THE GROUND is common in the poorer rural areas of ALABAMA. Dumping human waste on the ground is a serious health issue, and has NOTHING to do with installing an on-site sewage system that has one, or more in ground septic tanks.

To put it in simple terms. While building new rural homes or upgrading existing systems in the northeast, I pay a licensed professional to design a system, based on the results of a soil testing report done by another professional. The system installation is inspected roughly 6-7 times, by a state licensed inspector, during the construction process. The systems typically have three tanks, a pump system and a elevated sand bed, with a distribution manifold to uniformly inject nearly clear liquid effluent that is largely particle free. I have paid for, and overseen the installation of, dozens of these systems over the last 35 years. OTOH, there are thousands of poor, most minority people in rural Alabama that can flush a bowel movement, and run out side to see it dumping out the pipe, into the yard. If, in your mind, you can equate the process of providing a safe, reliable and effective on-site sewage treatment system, to dumping raw human waste in your yard, there is literally no hope for you.
Wharton, first I want to address the UN visit to central Alabama. That visit was pure political theater and the poor black area visited cherry picked to act as a "representative" view of poverty in Alabama to be splashed in front of world leaders and be an affront to a red state in a country that the UN has no lost love for. To accept that as an honest representative slice of life in rural Alabama is to fall into the trap of credulity. Don't go there if you want to have any credibility.

Next, from your post it is obvious that you have a vested financial interest in advanced septic systems. I have no problem with your making a living, I have no problem with you touting the superiority of something you make money from. I DO have a problem with misrepresentations and fear-mongering.

The reason for septic systems and human waste management has everything to do with communicable diseases when humans are in crowded conditions. Cholera and typhoid fever were and are major health threats in densely populated areas.

The more recent concern with waste is the build-up of potent medications which do not easily bio-degrade, and chemicals used in homes that might get flushed and enter the environment. Simple management of #1 and #2 is accomplished by an outhouse - still perfectly legal and effective. As for human waste on the ground, is a RURAL area, the waste is no greater threat than cow manure, provided that the communicable diseases I mentioned are not present. Nasty? Yes. A major health threat? No.

In conversation with a county health officer, I asked what the best protocol was if there was open waste on the ground (in an area that wasn't an obvious runoff area). The response was to leave it to decompose, but if the odor or flies were an issue that lime could be put on it, but that it would slow the process needed to render it harmless.

I happen to view the advanced septics as overkill that have a secondary effect of only allowing the rich to live in expensive rural areas of the country. It is as effective a gatekeeper against undesirables as a minimum income requirement or segregated neighborhoods, but without the political outrage. Let us not mistake it for an absolute requirement for a species that have pooped on the ground for thousands of years and managed to survive.
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Old 07-24-2019, 05:52 AM
 
377 posts, read 333,238 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT View Post
A leading UN expert is an expert on Alabama and knows more that the residents of the state, surely you jest! Of course I'm missed the fact that you are a Alabama Coastal Snowbird, sort of like staying in the Holiday Inn Express!



Links please.......
The UN expert's assessment of poverty and sewage dumping in residential areas is accurate. There is a reason Alabama performs so poorly and is ranked 49th.

ALABAMA HAS THE WORST POVERTY IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD, U.N. OFFICIAL SAYS
https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-un-...-racism-743601

Video: The UN Special Rapporteur for Extreme Poverty paid a visit to the U.S. last year, drawing worldwide attention to his findings. NewsHour Weekend Special Correspondent Simon Ostrovsky followed in his footsteps to report from Lowndes County, Alabama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytd06hadrsM
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:10 AM
 
377 posts, read 333,238 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Wharton, first I want to address the UN visit to central Alabama. That visit was pure political theater and the poor black area visited cherry picked to act as a "representative" view of poverty in Alabama to be splashed in front of world leaders and be an affront to a red state in a country that the UN has no lost love for. To accept that as an honest representative slice of life in rural Alabama is to fall into the trap of credulity. Don't go there if you want to have any credibility.

Next, from your post it is obvious that you have a vested financial interest in advanced septic systems. I have no problem with your making a living, I have no problem with you touting the superiority of something you make money from. I DO have a problem with misrepresentations and fear-mongering.

The reason for septic systems and human waste management has everything to do with communicable diseases when humans are in crowded conditions. Cholera and typhoid fever were and are major health threats in densely populated areas.

The more recent concern with waste is the build-up of potent medications which do not easily bio-degrade, and chemicals used in homes that might get flushed and enter the environment. Simple management of #1 and #2 is accomplished by an outhouse - still perfectly legal and effective. As for human waste on the ground, is a RURAL area, the waste is no greater threat than cow manure, provided that the communicable diseases I mentioned are not present. Nasty? Yes. A major health threat? No.

In conversation with a county health officer, I asked what the best protocol was if there was open waste on the ground (in an area that wasn't an obvious runoff area). The response was to leave it to decompose, but if the odor or flies were an issue that lime could be put on it, but that it would slow the process needed to render it harmless.

I happen to view the advanced septics as overkill that have a secondary effect of only allowing the rich to live in expensive rural areas of the country. It is as effective a gatekeeper against undesirables as a minimum income requirement or segregated neighborhoods, but without the political outrage. Let us not mistake it for an absolute requirement for a species that have pooped on the ground for thousands of years and managed to survive.
The visit that placed Alabama and it's state government at the forefront of incompetence and made Alabama the poster child for poverty and racism was no act of theater and indeed representative of the lack of leadership that has Alabama ranked 49th out of 50. Basic wastewater management and serious disease from septic shock is not overkill and in Alabama's case presents a very toxic health hazard. The attitude that proper septic management is not an absolute requirement (specifically for a blue voting area of the Black Belt in a red state) is yet more evidence why Alabama is continuing to fail as a state.

An excerpt from the article referencing the obvious health threat of open sewage:

On Thursday, Alston visited communities in the Black Belt's Butler and Lowndes counties, where residents often fall ill with ailments like E. Coli and hookworm - a disease of extreme poverty long eradicated in most parts of the U.S. - in part because they do not have consistently reliable access to clean drinking water that has not been tainted by raw sewage and other contaminants.Aaron Thigpen, an activist who has lived in Fort Deposit for all of his 29 years, showed Alston around a Lowndes County property where five members of his extended family, including two minor children and an 18-year-old with Down syndrome, live in a modest home.

Their house, like those of many of their neighbors, discharges its raw sewage via long, aging "straight pipes" that release the effluent aboveground, where it sits in fetid open-air pools.

Their sewage runs into sparsely wooded areas or across grassy fields when it rains, spreading the waste and the pathogens it contains, generating toxic conditions, repulsive visuals and an overwhelming stench.

"These two pipes are the raw sewage pipes coming from the house. And you've got your main water line here, and it may have a hole in it, so everyone gets sick all at once," Thigpen said, pointing to exposed pipes running over a dank swamp of raw sewage.

UN poverty official touring Alabama's Black Belt: 'I haven't seen this' in the First World
https://www.al.com/news/2017/12/un_p...ouring_al.html
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Old 07-24-2019, 06:38 AM
 
11,522 posts, read 5,583,054 times
Reputation: 13844
There's an emphasis on Alabama while the articles I found talk about the raw sewage dumping into the ocean in Florida and this one: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ge-environment

While it bothers me that this is occurring - how is this any different than the outhouses at many hunting lodges or the outhouses that are all over the place in Alaska. Not all are self contained tubs.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:24 AM
 
3,184 posts, read 2,296,548 times
Reputation: 2700
[quote=RocketDawg;55677544]If I recall correctly, the map was of developing megaregions. And yes, it seems to be a pretty loose definition. The only real megalopolis in the eastern half of the country is Boston-Washington. There's also a lot of empty space between Atlanta and Charlotte.

I suppose the Alabama part is part of the developing megaregion because of population density. I haven't looked into it, but I suspect there are more people in the NE quadrant of the state plus Tuscaloosa than there are in the rest of the state.


Your observation about the Texas Triangle economy is VERY similar in all areas is not accurate:
1. D/FW - Defense contracting, financial services, technology (including semiconductors and large data centers), health care, telecommunications, transportation (DFW airport and BNSF railroad create a huge inland port network.)

2. Austin - Technology, Government and to a lesser extent healthcare;

3. San Antonio - Military, Tourism, and to a lesser extent, health care and energy exploration. There are several military bases in the area— Air Force bases (Lackland, and Randolph), Army posts (Fort Sam Houston and Camp Bullis) and a large medical facilty - Brooks Army Medical Hospital.

4. Houston - Energy, Health Care (Texas Medical Center employs over 105,000 workers), Shipping (Houston and Galveston Ports). The Houston port is one of the 5 busiest in the western hemisphere.
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Dothan
141 posts, read 173,508 times
Reputation: 146
Inspections and the sort are not common down here apparently. We bought a new home in SE Alabama in 2015 and it had some minor issues. I contacted the town office with some questions and they could not advise if any inspections had ever been done at any point during construction. We also have severe issues with no oversight during the building process here in the subdivision (think garbage floating everywhere in the subdivision to include construction as well as breakfast/ lunch debris, garbage people dump in the dumpsters, etc.) as there are seven new homes currently under construction at the same time by the same builder. There are no silt fences installed anywhere so there is a large issue with soil erosion and runofff directly to storm sewer and nearby creeks and streams. We have issues with speeders and people using the roundabout out front incorrectly by entering on the wrong side. I spoke with the county engineer who advised he would not use any speed impediments because "my predecessor didn't use em' and I ain't about to start!". He advised me to go down to the road and confront the offenders. The Sherriff's Dept. thought that was a bad idea. It's sort of a "free for all" in terms of any management or oversight of pretty much everything down here. BTW, our septic is about four feet from the back of the house and the lid is about three inches under the soil. We play fast and loose around here. It's a different world.

Last edited by Hoping4Huntsville; 07-24-2019 at 07:56 AM..
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Old 07-24-2019, 07:42 AM
 
3,184 posts, read 2,296,548 times
Reputation: 2700
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauCharles View Post
Strong Earthquakes are quite rare. You're much more like to have property damage, injury or death living in tornado or hurricane country than earthquake country. Still, that's not likely to happen for most folks either. In the West the real danger now are wildfires. I live less than 30 minutes drive from the town of Paradise in CA and it was utterly destroyed by one last November (15,000 homes and business burned and 85 people killed - mostly elderly).





Almost anywhere east of the Coast Range in California is affordable. Those out of sight prices are pretty much confined to a narrow 50 mile strip from the Bay Area to San Diego. There is a lot more to California on the other side of it. That said, the agricultural based Central Valley (where I've usually lived) may be more affordable but they also have much higher unemployment, educational attainment and poverty... pretty much like poorer areas of The South.
Define "affordable" for areas outside the "50 mile strip". Riverside, Moreno Valley and Redlands CA are 55 to 70 miles due east of downtown L.A. I did a search on Zillow and found nothing under $300M in San Bernardino, Moreno Valley or Riverside. I found a 1,500 sf SFR in Riverside for $370K with no pool. My brother's house in a good neighborhood in Fort Worth is twice the size with a pool and has an appraised value of around $300K.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Floribama
18,923 posts, read 43,211,623 times
Reputation: 18717
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee48 View Post
The UN expert's assessment of poverty and sewage dumping in residential areas is accurate. There is a reason Alabama performs so poorly and is ranked 49th.

ALABAMA HAS THE WORST POVERTY IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD, U.N. OFFICIAL SAYS
https://www.newsweek.com/alabama-un-...-racism-743601

Video: The UN Special Rapporteur for Extreme Poverty paid a visit to the U.S. last year, drawing worldwide attention to his findings. NewsHour Weekend Special Correspondent Simon Ostrovsky followed in his footsteps to report from Lowndes County, Alabama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytd06hadrsM
I won’t deny those conditions probably exist in a few really poor counties, but it’s not something 95% of the people in the state will ever encounter. I live in rural south Alabama and I have never personally seen sewage running onto bare ground.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Jack-town, Sip by way of TN, AL and FL
1,699 posts, read 1,942,145 times
Reputation: 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee48 View Post

The visit that placed Alabama and it's state government at the forefront of incompetence and made Alabama the poster child for poverty and racism was no act of theater and indeed representative of the lack of leadership that has Alabama ranked 49th out of 50. Basic wastewater management and serious disease from septic shock is not overkill and in Alabama's case presents a very toxic health hazard. The attitude that proper septic management is not an absolute requirement (specifically for a blue voting area of the Black Belt in a red state) is yet more evidence why Alabama is continuing to fail as a state.

An excerpt from the article referencing the obvious health threat of open sewage:

On Thursday, Alston visited communities in the Black Belt's Butler and Lowndes counties, where residents often fall ill with ailments like E. Coli and hookworm - a disease of extreme poverty long eradicated in most parts of the U.S. - in part because they do not have consistently reliable access to clean drinking water that has not been tainted by raw sewage and other contaminants.Aaron Thigpen, an activist who has lived in Fort Deposit for all of his 29 years, showed Alston around a Lowndes County property where five members of his extended family, including two minor children and an 18-year-old with Down syndrome, live in a modest home.

Their house, like those of many of their neighbors, discharges its raw sewage via long, aging "straight pipes" that release the effluent aboveground, where it sits in fetid open-air pools.

Their sewage runs into sparsely wooded areas or across grassy fields when it rains, spreading the waste and the pathogens it contains, generating toxic conditions, repulsive visuals and an overwhelming stench.

"These two pipes are the raw sewage pipes coming from the house. And you've got your main water line here, and it may have a hole in it, so everyone gets sick all at once," Thigpen said, pointing to exposed pipes running over a dank swamp of raw sewage.

UN poverty official touring Alabama's Black Belt: 'I haven't seen this' in the First World
https://www.al.com/news/2017/12/un_p...ouring_al.html
That is utterly ridiculous.
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