[Nemean]

Energy production has basically nothing to do whether an EV is a viable or not. It's more about how well an EV fits into one's lifestyle, and a comparison of cost. EVs are perfectly good for daily, short in-town driving. Me? It would suck to drive an EV, because I really only drive for city to city 3-5 hour driving, and usually only a couple times a month. I honestly wash my car more often than I drive it. The upkeep of charging the EV for prep in case of every time I might have a circumstance I need to drive it might honestly be environmentally worse than an ICE in my particular case since once I fill the tank, I won't worry about refilling it until I've already used it (just run it for a short errand once every other week if there's no real driving plans).

One of the issues with Alabama, though, is that a lot of the fun places to take trips to are in the middle of nature. If I'm going for a camping trip, I'm okay with the gas station being near the interstate, and getting fueled for the whole week for whatever needs I might have for the week. I'm not as okay with either have to waste time going back and forth to a place with the plug during the trip; or insisting that the electric infrastructure be dragged that far into nature (or, more accurately, not have the power grid get as stressed in those particular areas in case of a highly popular event).

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Nemean

Energy production has basically nothing to do whether an EV is a viable or not. It's more about how well an EV fits into one's lifestyle, and a comparison of cost.

That is true, but the owner's cost is dependent on the state production.

• In 2020 California generated 407 kWh per person per month from in-state plants. In March 2022, average residential rate was 26.71 cents/kWh in California.
• In 2020 Alabama generated 2270 kWh per person per month from in-state plants. In March 2022, average residential rate was 13.71 cents/kWh in Alabama.
• In 2017 Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant in Alabama generated 462 kWh per person per month. Browns Ferry is the 2nd largest nuclear power plant in the country. In California they are closing their last nuclear power plant, Diablo Canyon, by 2025.

A Volkswagen ID.4 requires 400 kWh to drive 1250 miles, or what the EPA considers a standard month of driving. A chevy bolt requires less electricity.

So Alabama electricity is half the price of California and per capita in-state generation is more than five times as high.
In total Alabama generated 136,842,032 mWh of electricity, and California generated 192,954,153 mWh of electricity, but California has 8 times the population of Alabama.

Of course, electricity is sold across state lines all the time. Brown's Ferry is located mear Huntsville on the Tennessee River only 20 miles from the Tennessee border. We sould expect more power output to go to Nashville than Huntsville, simply because the municipal area is 4 times the population. So dividing the generaion output by the population of Alabama should be considered a mathematical exercise. But it is a useful one when comparing the per capita generation in California.

[PacoMartin]

Lowest EV ownership per capita

1. Mississippi
2. North Dakota
3. West Virginia
4. Louisiana
5. Arkansas
6. South Dakota
7. Wyoming
8. Alabama

Highest EV ownership per capita

1. California
2. Hawaii
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. Colorado
6. Arizona

I don't think that list is very shocking to anyone. The Democratic states in the West are the biggest fans of EV, the Republican States in the middle of the country (especially the ones with a lot of rural territory) are least likely to buy an EV.

But from an energy standpoint, Alabama should have a much easier time to convert to EVs than Hawaii.

• Hawaii electricity is far more expensive than Alabama. Residential rates are 3 times as high.
• Hawaii electricity generation is much dirtier since it relies on oil. It produces twice as much carbon dioxide per kWh than Alabama.
• Alabama generates 4 times as much electricity per capita than Hawaii.

The 1LT version of the 2023 Bolt EV starts at $26,595 (plus a $995 destination fee). That's $5,900 less than the 2022 starting price. The range is 259 miles which compares to 189 miles from Huntsville to Montgomery. We seem to be edging out of the era when EVs are mostly elitist vehicles and with skyrocketing gas prices, they may be reasonable middle class transportation.

[GreggT]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

The 1LT version of the 2023 Bolt EV starts at $26,595 (plus a $995 destination fee). That's $5,900 less than the 2022 starting price. The range is 259 miles which compares to 189 miles from Huntsville to Montgomery. We seem to be edging out of the era when EVs are mostly elitist vehicles and with skyrocketing gas prices, they may be reasonable middle class transportation.

I just cannot imagine driving/riding 189 miles hunched up in a tiny vehicle that you have to struggle to get in and out of to save a buck or two!

[recycled]

I lived near Auburn, AL a couple of decades ago, and now that area is a big hitter in auto industry suppliers. Of course, AL is a big hitter in auto manufacturing, with the Hyundai Montgomery plant, the Tuscaloosa Mercedes factory, the Honda Lincoln plant and the new Huntsville Mazda-Toyota plant. The Kia factory is in West Point GA, just a few miles east of the AL state line. VW is just north of the AL state line in Chattanooga. The good paying (and steady) jobs provided by these plants has been very good for AL and the nearby states. Name another region of the US that has gained more good manufacturing jobs from the vehicle industry in the last two decades.

One of the big reasons all of these factories located to (or near) Alabama in the past few decades is the contract they got for low power rates. Other reasons included reasonable factory site cost, good access to transportation, close enough to a major port (Mobile) for container or assembled vehicle shipments - but not too close to get flattened by a hurricane. Regardless of how many people in AL choose (or don't choose) to buy a battery electric vehicle, abundant and reasonably priced power is closely related to the auto industry in AL.

All those AL car factories will be building a lot of vehicles in the future, and a big percentage will likely be BEV or plug in hybrids. In this way, the economy of AL will be tied to the success of all these new electric vehicles regardless of how many people in Alabama decide to buy one for themselves. People should be left free to choose what works best for them as a form of transportation - it should not be force-fed.

[Buck_Mulligan]

Originally Posted by EscAlaMike

Thanks.



We are though; not immediately but gradually over time. Not only is fuel cost is being manipulated to make it more prohibitively expensive over time, but supply of ICE vehicles is being squeezed. As I said in my first post in this thread,

The supply of ICE vehicles is being squeezed in the same way that the supply of stand alone fax machines has been squeezed, and $10 wrist watches have been squeezed. The suppliers have seen the future and it is the consumers.

[Buck_Mulligan]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

The Colonial pipeline break was here in Alabama.

Not mentioned in the OP was the huge impact of the TVA hydropower dams in the state.

Those comments are incidental to the question posed. The issue with EVs is only marginally related to the cost of electricity vs. the cost of gasoline. As I pointed out in the auto forum, even though the conversion of gasoline to useable energy is limited by the carnot cycle and the natural laws of thermodynamics to less than 50%, the energy in a tank of gas is still around ten times greater than a fully charged EV battery.

Until on-the-road charging of EV batteries (such as on Interstates) is developed, I'm not holding my breath on EVs becoming the dominant transportation.


Playing the cost of gas card in this game is a fool's play. A new vehicle costs what? around $30,000? Repairs on them are similarly $$$. My old van that was bought years ago gets 17 mpg and has low insurance cost, is fully paid for, and has a budget for repairs at $1K per year, which it never uses. I could drive around the U.S. a dozen times in it with gas at $5/gal before I would even begin to equal the $30K for a new vehicle gas or electric - and then I would have to pay more for insurance and fees on top of the $30K. If gas goes to $25/gal, with the amount of driving I do, I would still be coming out ahead rather than buying an EV.

What good is that energy if can't use it to get more miles?

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by recycled

All those AL car factories will be building a lot of vehicles in the future, and a big percentage will likely be BEV or plug in hybrids. In this way, the economy of AL will be tied to the success of all these new electric vehicles regardless of how many people in Alabama decide to buy one for themselves. People should be left free to choose what works best for them as a form of transportation - it should not be force-fed.

I am certainly not suggesting force-feeding any decision. What Norway is doing is making an offer that is too good to refuse so that BEVs are over 90% of sales.

Originally Posted by recycled

One of the big reasons all of these factories located to (or near) Alabama in the past few decades is the contract they got for low power rates. Other reasons included reasonable factory site cost, good access to transportation, close enough to a major port (Mobile) for container or assembled vehicle shipments - but not too close to get flattened by a hurricane.

If the state of Alabama is taking advantage of it's massive electrical generation capacity to entice auto businesses to set up manufacturing in Alabama, maybe they can entice consumers to switch to EVs. Maybe not to Utah levels, but at least up to Georgia levels.

Certainly you don't dump a car for better fuel economy, but when the vehicle has a maintenance problem too expensive to fix given the value of the vehicle, which fuel do you switch too?

Ranking of state by EV ownership per capita (end of 2020)

1. California
2. Hawaii
3. Washington
4. Oregon
5. Colorado
6. Arizona
7. Nevada
8. Utah
9. Vermont
10. District of Columbia
11. New Jersey
12. Massachusetts
13. Maryland
14. Florida
15. Connecticut
16. Virginia
17. Georgia
18. Illinois
19. Delaware
20. New Hampshire
21. Minnesota
22. Texas
23. New York
24. North Carolina
25. Rhode Island
26. Maine
27. Pennsylvania
28. Alaska
29. Idaho
30. New Mexico
31. Ohio
32. Tennessee
33. Missouri
34. Wisconsin
35. Kansas
36. Michigan
37. Indiana
38. Nebraska
39. Montana
40. Oklahoma
41. South Carolina
42. Iowa
43. Kentucky
44. Alabama
45. Wyoming
46. South Dakota
47. Arkansas
48. Louisiana
49. West Virginia
50. North Dakota
51. Mississippi

The Bestselling Cars in Alabama — and Your Cost To Own Them
By John Csiszar Nov 20, 2021 - This data seems older based on the prices
1. Ford F-Series — $28,745
2. Chevrolet Silverado — $28,300
3. Toyota Camry — $24,425
4. Ram 1500/2500/3500 — $32,145
5. GMC Sierra — $29,600

[OldBankhead]

Those are obviously base prices... like the stripped down fleet regular cab 2wds. Totally not indicative of the average consumer owned truck that is so popular here.

I am wondering what happens to the "cost" of owning an electric car as they become more popular. You can't pave roads or build bridges without gas tax so BEV owners will have to pay more. Alabama is a welfare state when it comes to that.

No one is going to force you to buy a BEV or come take your ICE vehicle away. That's just typical far right scare tactics to try to kill any sort of change/growth/improvement of the status quo.

[GreggT]

Originally Posted by OldBankhead

Those are obviously base prices... like the stripped down fleet regular cab 2wds. Totally not indicative of the average consumer owned truck that is so popular here.

Very true but lacking are the prices of the EV's to compare.

No one is going to force you to buy a BEV or come take your ICE vehicle away. That's just typical far right scare tactics to try to kill any sort of change/growth/improvement of the status quo.

Not exactly true. There are some states banning the sale of ICE vehicles after a certain date. If one needs one, the only choice they will have is an EV. Same as force!