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All I can go by is personal experience. Every place has beautiful areas but the people usually mess it up.
Yep. You raise an important point. Bigotry exists everywhere. Having lived all over, I'm kind of amused when somebody starts harshing on Alabama, but conveniently ignores the prejudice in their own communities.
I mean, I lived in San Diego and Chicago, and I've heard worse things said in those places about minorities than I've ever heard in Alabama about blacks.
Personally, for me, it is less about "Alabama" and more about the "deep south" mentality.
I have problems with that part of the country for several reasons, but the main one is the EXTREME religiousness. I am not religious, so I have a problem with any area where the majority of people judge you if you don't give the right answer to the "Where do you go to church?" question, that is usually in the first 5 questions asked upon meeting a new person.
I also know that, while some may argue that there is no more racism, there is definitely still a strong class separation, that is just as bad, in my opinion.
And for education levels, looking at the 2000 census http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-24.pdf , the only states where less than 75% of the population graduated high school are: Kentucky, Louisiana & Mississippi. Several others barely made 75%, including Alabama, Arkansas, Texas, & Tennessee. The average for the whole US was in the low 80s with some states as high as 88%. Thus, it is a statistical fact that the education level is lower in the deep south than anywhere else in the country, with 1 in 4 people not graduating from high school as recently as 10 years ago.
Personally, for me, it is less about "Alabama" and more about the "deep south" mentality.
I have problems with that part of the country for several reasons, but the main one is the EXTREME religiousness. I am not religious, so I have a problem with any area where the majority of people judge you if you don't give the right answer to the "Where do you go to church?" question, that is usually in the first 5 questions asked upon meeting a new person.
I also know that, while some may argue that there is no more racism, there is definitely still a strong class separation, that is just as bad, in my opinion.
And for education levels, looking at the 2000 census http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-24.pdf , the only states where less than 75% of the population graduated high school are: Kentucky, Louisiana & Mississippi. Several others barely made 75%, including Alabama, Arkansas, Texas, & Tennessee. The average was in the low 80s with some states as high as 88%. Thus, it is a statistical fact that the education level is lower in the deep south than anywhere else in the country, with 1 in 4 people not graduating from high school as recently as 10 years ago.
I note that you live in Idaho, which has a graduation rate of 76.6%. I'm not sure you should be criticizing anyone.
Actually, if you look at the link I provided, according to the census (comparing apples to apples), Idaho has a 84.7 graduation rate, which is above the average for the US.
Edit* I looked at your link and it seems to report everyone's numbers lower than the census did. If you notice, Idaho is 6% above the national average on that site as well, and I don't even see any "deep south" states on the list, which means they are all lower than Idaho.
All I know is we vacationed in Orange Beach, Alabama several years ago and really enjoyed it. We also found the people to be perhaps the most friendly folks we've come across anywhere. We definately want to go back.
Actually, if you look at the link I provided, according to the census (comparing apples to apples), Idaho has a 84.7 graduation rate, which is above the average for the US.
Edit* I looked at your link and it seems to report everyone's numbers lower than the census did. If you notice, Idaho is 6% above the national average on that site as well, and I don't even see any "deep south" states on the list, which means they are all lower than Idaho.
Ah. I see your point. Of course, if you look at the ten-year moving average on the census numbers, you'll also note that Alabama is closing the gap with the rest of the country, having jumped its numbers by almost 9% during a ten-year period. Give it another ten, and it's quite likely that the state will have surged forward at a similar clip, rendering the statistical difference almost meaningless.
The rest of what you wrote was pretty facile nonsense, evidently based on old reruns of "In The Heat Of The Night." I mean, based on how Idaho is portrayed in the media, I could turn the tables on you and claim that your state is filled to the rafters with wild-eyed militia groups, fingering their automatic weapons and licking their chops for societal collapse. Would that be an accurate picture?
Personally, for me, it is less about "Alabama" and more about the "deep south" mentality.
I have problems with that part of the country for several reasons, but the main one is the EXTREME religiousness. I am not religious, so I have a problem with any area where the majority of people judge you if you don't give the right answer to the "Where do you go to church?" question, that is usually in the first 5 questions asked upon meeting a new person.
I beleive that you just said that you judge an area for being religious. You back that up by saying the area you judge judges people based on religion. So to clear it up you judged the deep south based on having religion instead of lack there of.
That is similar to how a former coworker of mine said that when he was moving from Denver to Huntsville, his neighbor told him that we still have segregated schools here and are racist. Then in the next conversation the neighbor was making terrible rascist comments about how he hated Mexicans.
Personally, for me, it is less about "Alabama" and more about the "deep south" mentality.
I have problems with that part of the country for several reasons, but the main one is the EXTREME religiousness. I am not religious, so I have a problem with any area where the majority of people judge you if you don't give the right answer to the "Where do you go to church?" question, that is usually in the first 5 questions asked upon meeting a new person.
I also know that, while some may argue that there is no more racism, there is definitely still a strong class separation, that is just as bad, in my opinion.
And for education levels, looking at the 2000 census http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-24.pdf , the only states where less than 75% of the population graduated high school are: Kentucky, Louisiana & Mississippi. Several others barely made 75%, including Alabama, Arkansas, Texas, & Tennessee. The average for the whole US was in the low 80s with some states as high as 88%. Thus, it is a statistical fact that the education level is lower in the deep south than anywhere else in the country, with 1 in 4 people not graduating from high school as recently as 10 years ago.
How much time have you spent in Alabama? I live in Alabama and have never been asked where I went to church, when first meeting a person. Most people don't care if you are religious or not. Usually when someone does ask you that question, they are just trying to get to know you. They don't really care where you go, or even if you go.
Also, explain the class seperation you are talking about.
Ah. I see your point. Of course, if you look at the ten-year moving average on the census numbers, you'll also note that Alabama is closing the gap with the rest of the country, having jumped its numbers by almost 9% during a ten-year period. Give it another ten, and it's quite likely that the state will have surged forward at a similar clip, rendering the statistical difference almost meaningless.
The rest of what you wrote was pretty facile nonsense, evidently based on old reruns of "In The Heat Of The Night." I mean, based on how Idaho is portrayed in the media, I could turn the tables on you and claim that your state is filled to the rafters with wild-eyed militia groups, fingering their automatic weapons and licking their chops for societal collapse. Would that be an accurate picture?
That's entirely possible that they will close the gap. However, it doesn't change the fact that they have been that way for a long time, which means that is how they are currently viewed. And that is what this thread is about, is why people view Alabama the way they do.
And I wasn't basing anything off TV shows. I've never even seen the show you mentioned. I was basing it off what people have told me about their experiences in the deep south. I am the first to admit I have never been anywhere in that area except Atlanta, Georgia and vacation country, Florida, which despite their geographical location, I don't consider part of the deep south. It may be second hand information, but it is consistant, and it is WHY I view the deep south the way I do, which is what the OP asked. It is my opinion, and I feel that to call anyone's opinion "nonsense", is at best, very rude.
And no, that isn't an accurate picture of Idaho, but I do acknowledge that many people think that it is, and while their opinion may not jive with the facts, that doesn't change the fact that it is how my state is viewed. To share that view isn't nonsense, it is just inaccurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghett61
I beleive that you just said that you judge an area for being religious. You back that up by saying the area you judge judges people based on religion. So to clear it up you judged the deep south based on having religion instead of lack there of.
That is similar to how a former coworker of mine said that when he was moving from Denver to Huntsville, his neighbor told him that we still have segregated schools here and are racist. Then in the next conversation the neighbor was making terrible rascist comments about how he hated Mexicans.
I prefer not to judge based on either belief or lack thereof. And I prefer NOT to surround myself with people who do so. So I judge them for being judgemental about religion, but not for being religious. I don't believe that is a contradiction. There is no one who doesn't judge anyone for any reason. If I had kids, I would choose not to let them play in a sex offender's yard, and that is a judgement call also. (ok, at this point, "judge" doesn't even look like a word anymore).
Quote:
Originally Posted by smel
How much time have you spent in Alabama? I like in Alabama and have never been asked where I went to church, when first meeting a person. Most people don't care if you are religious or not. Usually when someone does ask you that question, they are just trying to get to know you. They don't really care where you go, or even if you go.
Also, explain the class seperation you are talking about.
As I said above, I have not been there. However, I've been told by people I've encountered from there, including a good friend who recently moved there. So, yes, my information is second hand, but it shaped how I view the area, which again, is what the OP asked about.
The class separation I'm talking about came from the person I know who moved there recently. They are fairly well off, and put the kids into private school, only to realize that they are pretty much the only "dark complexioned" kids in the school (they are half black half white). Basically, there are very very few well off "non-white" people. Although there are plenty of poor people of all walks. Maybe "glass ceiling" would be a better description than class separation. It seems to be based on the racist past. I don't think it is a conscious racism, but it does seem to be a real phenomenon.
Again, I will say one more time. I was responding to the OP's question, WHY do people pick on the deep south. I was giving my opinion of why this happens. Just like a myth, there is always a kernal of truth in any stereotype.
I prefer not to judge based on either belief or lack thereof. And I prefer NOT to surround myself with people who do so. So I judge them for being judgemental about religion, but not for being religious. I don't believe that is a contradiction. There is no one who doesn't judge anyone for any reason. If I had kids, I would choose not to let them play in a sex offender's yard, and that is a judgement call also. (ok, at this point, "judge" doesn't even look like a word anymore).
As you have may have read in previous threads, the religion thing is just a large part of the social aspect of the south. Asking about church and getting invited is just an easy way for the person to put out a friendship feeler.
The truth though is probably 50% or more of those that claim to go to church or even those that go, do not actively practice the beliefs they claim. Being born and raised Southern Baptist, I can you that its very true for that denomination.
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