How Much To Sacrafice (Metlakatla: credit, to live, legally)

[User 2]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

Well, since I served and retired from the military, there is nothing the Government doesn't already know about me, so I have no worries whatsoever in relation to the Patriot Act, as long as it relates to the monitoring of individuals suspected of being involved in illegal drugs and terrorist activities.

Well, ray,

Since it's been proven, (publicly admitted by the administration), the illegal spying done in the name of terrorist tracking, ala the Patriot Act, has been used against those who are neither criminals, or terrorists, I am not sure what you might be trying to say here.

Because the government has some old and irrelevant records left over from your militay service, you say you have no worries, .....but the government having some old records about you is irrelevant to the actual practice and/or motives of the government in conducting it's process of spying on citizens.

Saying you have no problem with the Patriot Act, (as long as it pertains to some criteria that has no relevance to how the Patriot Act has been used), doesn't seem to send the kind of message that agrees with your statement that you have no worries.

And ray,

Your military gay opinion, your position on same sex, to what end is that disclosure provided?


I don't see the direct connection between your comments on spying or the sex and marriage thing with o7chevy's reference to whatever it is he was talking about as far as 'sacrifice' might relate to moving to Alaska.

[RayinAK]

If you go back and read some of the other posts, you will notice the "same-sex" thing, although it was not written the way I have. You will also notice that it's "me" not having any concerns relating to the Patriot Act, not you or anybody else. Prove to me that innocent civilians have been targeted under the Patriot Act. What are their names, charges, and investigation results? Have you read the public court records indication who has been charged and proved innocent? Who are these people?

Now, I would agree with you that before we had the so called Patriot Act, drug enforcement agents have mistakenly invaded homes or targeted innocent civilians. Such things often happen around the US, and have nothing to do with The Patriot Act. Innocent civilians have been killed because of mistaken ID, too.

But in relation to The Patriot Act, I have no concerns about "ME" being "checked" for criminal activities relating to national security, and for drug and criminal activities relating to terrorism. Don't believe for a minute that wire taps, crowd picture-taking, and things like that didn't happen back in the Vietnam years up the the Clinton Administration. Back then it may not have been called "The Patriot Act," but the monitoring was still there. The main differences are that nowadays the "monitors" are also being monitored by certain agencies, Congress, often the public, non-profit organizations, the ACLU, etc. Back then is was covert, and we didn't have the Internet or the press making the news public.

[Manmountain]

Originally Posted by Rance

This why I have island property. I have no idea what you guys are talking about...but if things go bad..I'm headed for the hills. I have a cave staked out and everything!

Your killing me....

[Xa'at]

Originally Posted by Xa'at

hundreds of thousands of people are being denied the right to marry and serve in the military

This was a reference to the sad state of affairs regarding gay rights in our country, for those who apparently did not pick that up. Frankly, I think it's hypocritical to not support equal rights- by doing so you are utilizing your right to free speech! Thus basically saying that the fundamental rights granted to us as Americans apply to you, but not to other people. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by Xa'at

This was a reference to the sad state of affairs regarding gay rights in our country, for those who apparently did not pick that up. Frankly, I think it's hypocritical to not support equal rights- by doing so you are utilizing your right to free speech! Thus basically saying that the fundamental rights granted to us as Americans apply to you, but not to other people. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

It just means that we both have opposing views in relation to open homosexuality in the military. It does not mean that I hate you, nor that I limit your supposedly "rights" to a type of sexuality. We both have the right to express our respective points of view. It doesn't make either one of us a lesser human being.

[Metlakatla]

What are "supposedly "rights" "?

I truly do despair....

[Manmountain]

Solution !!-- vote for Ron Paul...

He says its not anyones business especially the Gooberments business as to what you do or put in your body.

ITS CALLED FREEEEEDDDDOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

What are "supposedly "rights" "?

I truly do despair....

I have no idea. Is a sexual preference a right? All I know is that open homosexuality is not allowed in the military under the UCMJ, and that only Congress and the Supreme Court can change such laws. If it can be proven that the military is violating Constitutional rights of any kind, and that homosexuality and whatever it entails is a denial of such a right, then the military would not have any choice but to allow homosexuality into its ranks.

But who am I to argue such things? I am not a lawyer, nor a member of Congress, I don't create nor change laws... When it comes to arguing about such things, I let our representatives do the talking and signing, I just do the "voting" at the ballot box.

[Xa'at]

Indeed, Metlakatla, indeed.
In any case, I don't think you are a bad person. I can count on one hand the number of people that I know of who are bad people, (Hitler, for example) and trust me you're not on the list. I do however, think that your notion that supporting a viewpoint which limits other people's rights is in any way moral is misguided at best, dangerous at worst.
And for the record, I think it would be best for all if you if you leave "your" out of this discussion. Whether I am attracted to men, women, or aliens from the planet Omicron Persei 8 (ooh, Futurama joke! ) is really not relevant here.

[Metlakatla]

I'm attracted to space aliens myself but only on Thursdays, and only if they know how to make a proper Tom and Jerry.

Ray, my question was addressing the quotation marks in the word "rights" as well as the grammatical confusion created by the word "supposedly".

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