Question about inverters and battery banks (Anchorage, Fairbanks: sales, how much, house) - Alaska (AK) - City-Data Forum

megensmom · 02-02-2008, 10:33 AM

Ok I have a question and hope someone here can help. We are going to have a 12 battery bank using golf cart batteries with our 2,500w inverter. I saw in Northern Tool they have this, Northern Industrial Tools Solar-Powered Trickle Charger — 5 Watt | Solar Solutions | Northern Tool + Equipment

So my question is do you buy one of these and hook it up and it stays connected to the battery bank the whole time or do you just hook it up when the batteries are dead? I know I will need one of the things that will prevent overcharging and also one of the gauges that tells what the charge is one the batteries but I was just trying to figure out if there was a way to use some solar to help charge the batteries.

megensmom · 02-02-2008, 10:37 AM

Also would you spend more on a high dollar generator that you will only use to charge the batteries and maybe sometime in the next year used every few days-once a week for washing clothes or would you buy a cheaper generator and use the money towards a bigger battery bank?

DannyL · 02-02-2008, 10:42 AM

Mal, where are you???? Earth paging Mal, Earth paging Mal....you're needed on aisle 4,,

Arcticthaw · 02-02-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megensmom

Also would you spend more on a high dollar generator that you will only use to charge the batteries and maybe sometime in the next year used every few days-once a week for washing clothes or would you buy a cheaper generator and use the money towards a bigger battery bank?

I would think you would want a generator that is druable, reliable, quiet, and fuel efficient. Something easy to maintain.

A 5 watt charger would be good for a single battery of the same voltage (12) to keep charged while your away or such. Unless your using LED lights, this charger would not keep up with any load on the system. Remember wattages stated are normally peak watts on full sun days etc.

JavaPhil · 02-02-2008, 01:11 PM

Oh boy. Talk about a can of worms.

Buying a charger for a battery bank/inverter is not a cheap decision. First, make sure that the batteries are in a cool, dry area. Batteries in a hot area deteriorate very quickly in any temp over 77 degrees. 77 is optimum for max discharge vs. long life span. Buy a charger that is temperature compensated. A battery that is warm will accept more charge and as it charges will warm up more, demanding more charge, warming up more, resulting in a condition known as thermal runaway. Fires usually result. Bad thing!

Buy a charger that is rated for the batteries that are installed. A car charger is NOT the thing to have. Buy an inverter that is rated for the load required by the house. There are reputable dealers who will ask what your max load on the house is. Be prepared to tell them in KW or KVA. At least be able to tell them what your house service is rated in amps. Try and tell them what you current draw will be for the battery/inverter system.

Cheap on a charger/battery/inverter system is not the way to go. Pricing on a household system is not within my scope here. I deal in industrial and commercial systems. Batteries are tempermental creatures, and need to be treated with respect. They are also dangerous. Please get an electrician or dealer to recommend a complete system for you.

JavaPhil · 02-02-2008, 01:13 PM

As far as the genset, my recommendation for a household unit is a small (3-5kW) Honda, Lugger or Northern Lights unit. I can come up with a drawing for a homemade transfer switch.

megensmom · 02-02-2008, 01:57 PM

We were thinking of one of the 5,000w Honda Generators from Sams Club. We have spoken to someone at a place in Alaska that specializes in inverters and the like. And the reason I posted this is because I know THEY are in the business to sell these systems. I know they have knowledge but I also know that they can just as easily trick us into buying something that we don't really need or maybe we would be just as well of with brand X inverter but they really need the sale so they don't even show us X.
I know people here aren't going to make money with their advice so I wanted to see what info I could get.
The one place sent me a basic guide that has some of the wattage use for items commonly used and based on that we would need something that would produce 1730watts so a 2000 watt inverter or maybe a 2500 would be best. The home is already set up for an inverter system and my father in law says just buy a inverter and batteries and put them into the storage thing he had and we should be good to go. The inverter he had was about $3000 and he had 10 golf cart batteries. He just had a coleman brand generator though. So that is why I asked about the generator,since it wouldn't be used daily would I be ok to get one from say Sams Club and use the money saved to get a better brand inverter. I know we want to get the really good batteries,the gel type however at least for the first year we will have to settle for the golf cart ones.
Truthfully how much difference is there in say an inverter purchased at Northern Tool Company than the ones say sold at Alaska Battery? What type of working life will I get from the one at Northern Tool

RayinAK · 02-02-2008, 02:14 PM

Yes, there is such a place in Fairbanks. They are locate on Vanhorn Avenue, and used to have the name "Alaska Battery Supply." They build batteries, and sell solar chargers.

Some solar chargers include a protective circuit that prevents current from moving backwards to the charger. Also, some chargers include a "maintainer" circuit that prevents overcharging the battery. These protective circuits are readily available, and are also used to charge your cell phone, iPod, etc., while others maintain a very small pulse or charge just enough to keep the battery charged. As you may already know, a battery, even when not used, discharges itself. A charger/maintainer charges the battery, and then switches to a trickle pulse to "maintain" the battery. Some are designed to charge and maintain several batteries throughout the winter. The alternator in your car does the same for the battery. It does not over-charge it, because the battery is in constant discharge.

Honda does make inverter generators. They are sold around Fairbanks. Sportsman Warehouse has them. These are also available at Delta Junction (Big Delta), at the ATV dealer by the bridge. The smallest one is 1000-watt, and the largest 6500-watt I believe. Keep in mind that you can also incorporate a power generator to a stationary bicycle, which could be handy during the winter months, since it allows you to exercise and store electricity.

JavaPhil · 02-02-2008, 07:11 PM

There is a lady by the name of Dalanda who works Tues through Thurs in AK Battery in Fairbanks (Mon and Fri in Anchorage). She is a great person to deal with. Tell her I sent you. She knows me through sales in Anchorage. They are a reputable company and great people. Tell her Mal said hi.

As near as I can tell, the item from Northern Tool is meant to run off of the car lighter outlet and unless you are running off of your car engine, it's not what you need. The golf cart batteries are either 4D or 8D batteries and 10 in series requires a 120 VDC charger. Charger amperage will depend on the size of the batteries. Those batteries are deep cycle batteries. Good for inverters. Do not use car batteries!!! Bad choice.

forgetwho · 02-02-2008, 11:33 PM

When I lived off the grid in the 90's I got a great deal of help and advice from Backwoods Solar in Sandpoint, Idaho (Backwoods Solar Electric Systems). There is a lot of explanatory material available on their website, but I'd suggest that you also telephone them with specific questions. They are very willing to help regardless of whether you are interested in buying something from them. They sometimes spent 40 minutes on the phone with us talking us through one thing or another.