Power Generators and Misc (Anchorage: maintenance, living in, cost of)
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Personally, I try to rely as little as possible on the outside world, and in the bush, it would be a necessity as much as a desire.
Right there.
What am I using gas for? I use it to go and gather food for the table year round for the parents. In the summer it is the boat and in the winter it is for the snowmobile.
Keep in mind: Cockiness causes trouble. Don't go over your head on this.
I know my limits and work within them.
You're headed for the deep end of the pool! :-)
But... almost certainly the worst thing that will happen to you is "failure", which means you have a lot of good fun until you realize you can't keep it up and have to go "work" for a living. That work will be a lot easier than what you jumping into now, so it isn't exactly the end of the world when it comes.
This sort of adventure is a great experience in life, and regardless of how well it works (given your initial goals), you'll be able to sit back and smile with the memories when you're old and gray.
What am I using gas for? I use it to go and gather food for the table year round for the parents. In the summer it is the boat and in the winter it is for the snowmobile.
What does the bush mean to you?
No I didn't say there my land is in the bush, did I? I stated being in the bush would necessitate being more self-reliant, as opposed to where it's a desire and not a necessity to me or others outside of the bush to not rely on the world outside of myself/immediate family/etc.
Bush to me is much further out away from the road system, to the point where access to the roads is quite difficult/impractical, making you much more isolated as well. I've stated on other threads that my land isn't true "bush," but it's rural/remote enough to fulfill most of my goals until I can move further out eventually. The only real goal I can't fulfill with it, is to be in the true bush. But as I said, it's never a bad thing to get more experience. The growing season there is at least a full month shorter than here, and much cooler at that, as one example of something I'll need a little experience with...though I do often contend with low temps here.
I don't think offering ideas for ways to get away from using that gas and such, is such a bad idea these days, given the high prices...
I stated being in the bush would necessitate being more self-reliant, as opposed to where it's a desire and not a necessity to me or others outside of the bush to not rely on the world outside of myself/immediate family/etc.
Bush to me is much further out away from the road system, to the point where access to the roads is quite difficult/impractical, making you much more isolated as well.
There is one mistaken concept that you appear to have that I am a bit concerned with. Let me put this in no uncertain terms: Trying to live 150 miles up the Elliot Highway as your first Alaska experience might be really DUMB. Okay? (Dumb, as in a very short adventure, when you could instead be starting a really extended one.)
You talk about being self reliant, but you have no experience to rely on. And let me tell you, the weather in December isn't going to prepare you well for lasting through the end of February!
The difference in the bush is that you have neighbors close by. You move in about September, and somebody drops by and says hello and says they live next door. What you don't know is that they figure out just exactly how little experience you have (it takes them all of 10 seconds), and they tell all of the neighbors. Then for the next 6-10 months all sorts of strange things happen!
Yeah, like every time you just happen to need to know something, another neighbor that you've barely said hello to once in 4 months knocks on your door, drinks your coffee, and 45 minutes into the conversation just happens to casually tell you what you need to do to live past tomorrow.
It's a great system. But it doesn't exist 150 miles up that highway and 300 yards off the road. Instead your roof caves in, the well goes dry, the varmits eat all of your food, or whatever.
You might be a lot better off moving to the bush to start with. Do you know it generally takes a young man from about age 8 until about maybe age 30 or so to learn how to live there. Starting as an adult, I'm not sure if it takes longer or if you could learn faster. But at least 10 years, and maybe 30. Until then almost everything you do is under the supervision of an older man (say about 40-55 years old or so), who knows how to do everything you need to be doing, but who needs a youngster helping with the physical labor. (And that old guy? He's being told when to do things by some elder who's too old to actually do any of it any more, but who can tell precisely when it should be done.)
There is a very good reason people in the bush live in villages, not
scattered all around in individual homesteads miles distant from each other. It takes a community, just to stay alive and be healthy.
Never claimed it was, in this thread or in others I've posted on, but it's a start in that direction. I've got experience gardening and hunting and such and could definately do well in VT if it weren't for the taxes and high property prices and regulations and such, but it'll definately require some more learning in a new place. Not always best to jump into too deep a hole at first. Getting more experience (and money too I suppose) and then moving on is sometimes a good plan, you know, to avoid being on the front page of some newspaper somewhere about a rescue...
My goal, as I've stated before, is to be as self-sufficient as possible. I have no plans for running water or electricity or such. I have little interest in burning up a bunch of gasoline, when I can do the job by hand, such as using a crosscut saw rather than a chainsaw for firewood, just as an example. You mentioned bread earlier. Even while in a city now I don't buy bread, I make my own, including grinding the wheat myself, and use sourdough for the yeast, just as another example. I don't use much milk and could do without it if I needed to. Raising a dairy cow doesn't strike me as particularly practical in AK. Better uses for resources. Just as another example...
Don't take this as an attack or insult or anything, but instead of worrying about how much gasoline costs, or a loaf of bread at the store, or whatever, find alternatives to get what you need...for example, a crosscut saw, or making your own bread, etc.
Give me a break! Where did you read all that! Sounds very romantic doesn't it! Well I can tell you, no running water is no fun! I was raised in just the manner you speak of. It EITHER takes fuel to power the mill to grind your wheat, OR you expend more calories than the bread you can bake after cutting wood to cook it (oh yeah a wood cook stove is NOT a piece of cake, they don't cook like the gas stove in your home now. It often takes 4-5 hours to cook a meal you can whip up in an hour now, and don't forget you have to split all that wood! Wheat is heavy, how are you going to get it in off the road, and oh yes, I suppose you are going to have a truck to drive on that road, so it is a mere
day journey to Fairbanks where you can go to Sams club!
What we are talking about rural......NOT the same thing at all!
Get your old cross cut saw and cut the wood to heat 9 months out of the year! (50-60 below out there) Better be ready to cut 10 +
cords of wood, and with no running water as you state, you probably won't have a woman, or one you can stand to be around, the only way you will get water in that cold country is to melt snow, and it takes many hours to melt enough to do dishes, and laundry! As I said that is how I was raised....
You quite frankly may just find yourself in the same boat many other such romantic minded folks find themselves, with their thumb stuck out about 3 weeks after the mosquitoes come out!
Rural Alaska is so sparsely populated BECAUSE it is not very hospitable, and won't be even if there are roads. It can be lovely, but just as desolate as any other long expanse with no people. The really good thing about a road is you are never "stuck" , my friend that is probably the thing you are most unrealistic about. When it is January, you have a toothache, or a broken leg, and you have to get into town.....no road, and I am NOT talking about where you plan to live a mere
mile from the road, I am talking about rural AK! The most shocking thing though will be when you are ready to go to town on that road in the middle of January and it is -60....you walk out, the mile goes by fast with anticipation of that nice warm truck.......OH yes, we forgot, how do you plug it in, so it will start at -60....your battery is dead, your oil like concrete and try as you might it just won't even turn over. NOW what are YOU going to do? If you are wise, you will quit trying to convince folks who are currently struggling with the very real cost of living out in rural Alaska, how WE are wrong about trying to make our lives more live able and affordable.
Go do your thing, then at some point when you need a helping hand I hope some long time Alaskan will come by and carry your load.
Last edited by susitna-flower; 06-15-2008 at 01:21 AM..
Well, Floyd_Davidson. You already know that I don't agree with you often, about anything But I. have to hand it to you on your last post. Accurate and down to the point.
Over the last 50 decades or so we have become used to larger houses which require more wood/oil to heat. We were able to do that because we acquired chainsaws, snowmachines, airplanes etc.
If a person is willing to live in a SMALL cabin, say 10X12, if he insulates it well, or caulks it well if it is log, then there is no reason he can't cut all his wood with a cross cut saw and haul it by hand in a yukon sled.
He can use a kerosene lamp for light and basically just downgrade in every way.
It requires a different mindset, and many people are not willing to step back in time in that way. We have become accustomed to a higher standard of living.
You guys, there'll always be hopeless romantics convinced they have what it takes to live such a life in the middle of fricking nowhere, happily. Ya'all can argue till you're blue in the face with this dude, but this is something he'll have to learn for himself.
There are times I'm quite sure it would be awesome to live alone hundreds of miles from civilization. But the truth is, I couldn't do it. Not because I don't have the spunk, self-motivation, or ability to handle isolation, but simply because I don't think I would be very happy after the first few weeks. Human beings simply aren't meant to live alone; we're social creatures, every one of us.
Think about it: do you really want to live your entire life on a razor's edge, never quite sure if you've got enough food and heating oil to make it through winter? There's no way to get ahead, to stop and enjoy yourself because you have to spend every minute just trying to stay alive.
I'm sorry but I just don't think that's something you really want.
In no particular order, my responses: You don't cut and chop your wood in the middle of winter. I had to do that once in northern VT at -30, it just doesn't work too good. Late winter is the best time to cut trees and then they can be cut to firewood sized pieces and chopped through the spring and summer. I kept a 12 by 16 cabin warm in VT once with just an axe and crosscut saw (and file for sharpening). I'm planning on a 16 by 16 cabin for my main cabin on my land and I'm sure I can heat that using hand tools just fine. Should I fall behind, sure, I can have a chainsaw as backup to avoid freezing, but as I've said, I'd prefer not to be a slave to the oil companies. I also cooked on that heating stove (not a cookstove BTW) and it took practice and some burned food but I got the hang of it.
I've lived without electricity or running water or such before, here in VT. I was quite fine. One of those times I was living in a tent in the woods in the late winter/early spring. I survived quite okay. Obviously not everyone would want to do that, I have no problem doing it. I've collected items that'll make things fairly well for me when I have no electricity, including my lamps, some kerosene and gasoline, some that will burn other fuels so I could avoid relying on oil companies should I need or want to. You know a lot of "homesteader" types like me throughout this country actually enjoy this sort of work, so it isn't simply "work" to us, keep that in mind.
I'm quite good at gardening, fishing and hunting here in VT, and preserving those foods. AK is different but given my experience and knowledge I'm sure I can adapt to the different conditions. Razor edge of survival? Hardly, but I'd never rely on one food source. Two is one, one is none. Always have other options. I'm a bit of a survivalist already, and have a year's worth of basic food items (grains and beans and fats and such). I intend to bring similar amounts of supplies in my first year or two to ensure I don't starve as I get used to the new conditions and area.
Grain is easy to grind with a good grain grinder. Get a good one and it's hardly work at all to grind enough flour for some bread. Get a cheap/poor grinder, and yeah, you'll be working hard for some poor quality flour.
Floyd: there are a handful of neighbors within a 1 mile radius, not many, but some. So I won't have anyone right on top of me but there will be people nearby...
Hey if everyone wants to laugh at me I don't care, but give me 1 or 2 years to see how I do first. By all means, build your roads if you're convinced they'll solve your problems. But, I just saw that gas is $4.08 here. $5.75 a gallon down here isn't far fetched in the future. By all means stay reliant on the oil companies. A lot of people will be getting used to "lower" standards of living soon, and it ain't going to just be in AK.
A lot of people will be getting used to "lower" standards of living soon, and it ain't going to just be in AK.
That's very true. It seems to be part of the "master plan" for the lower 48 at any rate. Arctic you mentioned that you have a year's supply of food. Is it in cans or pails?
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But I. have to hand it to you on your last post. Accurate and down to the point.
Arctic you mentioned that you have a year's supply of food. Is it in cans or pails?
