Power Generators and Misc (Fairbanks, Bethel: fit in, refrigerators, property tax)
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No I didn't say there my land is in the bush, did I? I stated being in the bush would necessitate being more self-reliant, as opposed to where it's a desire and not a necessity to me or others outside of the bush to not rely on the world outside of myself/immediate family/etc.
Bush to me is much further out away from the road system, to the point where access to the roads is quite difficult/impractical, making you much more isolated as well. I've stated on other threads that my land isn't true "bush," but it's rural/remote enough to fulfill most of my goals until I can move further out eventually. The only real goal I can't fulfill with it, is to be in the true bush. But as I said, it's never a bad thing to get more experience. The growing season there is at least a full month shorter than here, and much cooler at that, as one example of something I'll need a little experience with...though I do often contend with low temps here.
I don't think offering ideas for ways to get away from using that gas and such, is such a bad idea these days, given the high prices...
Are you walking up from Vermont? You have to pay the big fuel companies money when the airlines charge you a fuel charge. How are you getting to your cabin and how are you going to move everything you need there? Since you don't want to rely on fuel of any kind, good luck on hucking everything on your back.
I think that's a wonderful idea Barking... then we "romantic" homesteader-types wouldn't be out in the general public irritating the other folks as much!
You definitely don't irritate ME! I worry, because we have seen many just like you over the years!
A few side comments....where does the energy come from to have a freezer?
Here in AK we don't have rodents that can chew through a plastic 5 gallon bucket.....they are called BEARS...and yes they can chew through buckets AND cans and they will get your lard if they want it!
Also Missing, you must remember that even goats have to eat in the winter time....where Arctic is talking about moving to would require the goat living in the 16 x 16 with him, OR in a really well built shelter with good bedding, as goats tend to freeze at -60....Udders are tender things! Wake up to black teats and you will be eating your social animal! Food for a goat for 9 months is also not to be taken lightly, they would require at least a ton of hay, plus grain.....and if you are putting up hay in the summer you aren't cutting wood, OR if you are gardening, you aren't cutting wood, OR if you are canning, you are BURNING wood, and not cutting it.....
This could go on and on, what I am trying to point out is that both of you are looking at this through rose glasses, and that is good you fall into the age group that I believe Floyd was pointing out is physically able to do the work....when you are 50 it will be a different story.
I also notice how both of you failed to mention whether you have figured into your yearly budget the now almost $2,000 PFD check, that Alaskans get as part of the revenue from those BIG oil investments...OR how you might plan to make even the meager $$$ you think you can survive on.
When my folks homesteaded they chose a spot 3 1/2 miles as the crow flies from Talkeetna. That was 50 years ago, you had to drive to Wasilla then across the mountains now known as Hatcher Pass, it was a really narrow "road", they were driving a 2 1/2 ton Dodge truck pulling a trailer with a John Deer tractor they brought all the way from Oklahoma.
They also thought of everything. A years supply of food, guns, ammunition, tools, seed, a treadle sewing machine, dishes, clothes appropriate for the climate, mosquito nets, bug "dope", and books on carpentry and such...This was a bit hard to transport without a good road, after Hatcher Pass it was on to Willow where they were able to load everything on the train. DON'T ask me why they didn't just get on the train in Anchorage, I suppose it was cost...they had also a realistic vision of how much money it would take to get through the first year and after driving up the Alcan funds were getting low.
They got off the RR in Talkeetna, and took a river boat across the Susitna River. Everything came across except the Truck, trailer, and Tractor. The Tractor didn't come across until late the next spring.
Now in vision NO ROADS and trying to get that tractor down to the site they picked out to homestead, across swamps, creeks, and up two hills. The shortest of which, on a Halloween night, the tractor over turned on my Dad! He jumped free, and walked on home to figure another day how to get that son of a gun back up on its wheels!
It was several weeks work getting the tractor home, no wood cut then!
The requirements at the time to homestead included getting about 25 acres cleared, and planted so it wasn't a matter of choice whether we needed that tractor or not. That was the only way to get the job done. It was also used to smooth out and level the air strip my Dad put in so Don Sheldon could fly in. See back then we lived with people who WERE bigger than life, with bigger dreams, and the willingness to work hard also. I am not saying what you plan to do isn't work, I am just saying that you choose a different route. Even if you do as you say you want to, it WILL rely on other's work, roads, airports, PFD's to make it happen.....MOST who come up here with that in mind don't want to acknowledge they will be relying on others, or that when the truth is told they are NOT as ready for Alaskan conditions as their perspective of a few weeks or a couple of years in VT or WA conditions may seem.
One good example. Our first crop of food to help supplement our diet was Turnips! My Mom was an expert at getting them to taste just like pumpkin pie!
Now you can grow many things up here, but storage IS a problem. Root crops do really well. Potatoes, turnips, carrots can all be grown, but how to keep them at -60 is the problem. Arctic, where you are talking about, may have permafrost, so digging a hole might not be an option like it is in VT. Canning is good, but guess what, in a cabin you will find that with all the care in the world the floor will still freeze. Cans and Jars won't last if what is inside freezes, and they burst. Going out of the cabin for even a few hours, but for sure as long as it takes to get to Fairbanks in the winter time will mean your whole set up will freeze.
Getting back to the story, we proved up on the homestead, my folks stuck it out even when my Dad had a mental break down, and had to be flown to Portland Oregon to a mental hospital! Mother and my sister and I were left out in the woods for that summer (lucky it WAS summer) and he was able to come back after shock treatments! The next winter was rough because the MOXI that brought him to AK was gone...he was timid as a mouse, and that is not the way to make it in AK.
They moved into Anchorage went to work, and we still live here today.
The road came through in 1972....that is the Parks Hwy. It made it possible to move back to the homestead, with more ways to make the living easier. That was 13 years it took, what is being discussed here is a dream many years off....getting roads out to western AK. It will take many millions of dollars, and since all of the lower 48 feel the right to chime in on the discussion, and they want AK to stay "wilderness", just so they can fly up here and experience it for two weeks, it may never happen, but I can say from personal experience, it is going to be necessary IF the lifestyle the villages have adopted is to continue.
You have to realize, most of the folks who live out in villages don't WANT to go back to the old ways 100%. Yes they can subsistence fish and hunt, but they are not going to be nomadic, live in temporary shelters, and heat with whale oil! Villages like we are talking about don't have trees to cut to make homes, many times, and though many of these folks do want to remain tied to their ancestral past, they also depend on modern society and the medical and economic ties to the larger centers of this state. THIS is what drives the need for roads, and though you personally want to live off the road system, many of the people who depend on air or water transportation to live, would be better off with cheaper overland road system.
Last edited by susitna-flower; 06-15-2008 at 04:55 PM..
My first post on this thread said: "but understand that sooner or later that means the areas connected by it can and will become just like the over-developed lower 48, and there's no turning back from that point. So be careful what you wish for."
So I was merely pointing out what happens in the lower 48, and suggesting that people consider it very carefully and with the long term results in mind, not just short term gains. Alaska's harsh climate can't entirely protect it from what development does in other states, just look at Anchorage. So like I said, be careful what you wish for, you might get more than you expected. But go ahead and prove me wrong...
All of that is good, but you are forgotten that most Alaskans came here from the lower-48 long ahead of you, and already know about roads traffic, crime, etc. Again, leave your condescending attitude at home, and enjoy Alaska when you get here. AND, if you really plan to survive alone in the wilderness, read Floyd's post in detail. If you can change your attitude to being humble and putting up with a little teasing from a Native family nearby, your "surviving" experience could become more pleasant. Nobody, except for those who have lived out there for years, can match the survival instinct of a Native fellow in the bush. But he or she won't take you attitude kindly.
I miss stated above, we do have one rodent that can chew through plastic buckets......I just had a squirrel in my trash can....HAD. He chewed through the lid!
I miss stated above, we do have one rodent that can chew through plastic buckets......I just had a squirrel in my trash can....HAD. He chewed through the lid!
We don't have squirrels that normally get into our garage. But in a societal collapse scenario I'd be worried about rodents getting into the pails. I guess we'll have to wait & see.
All of that is good, but you are forgotten that most Alaskans came here from the lower-48 long ahead of you, and already know about roads traffic, crime, etc. Again, leave your condescending attitude at home, and enjoy Alaska when you get here. AND, if you really plan to survive alone in the wilderness, read Floyd's post in detail. If you can change your attitude to being humble and putting up with a little teasing from a Native family nearby, your "surviving" experience could become more pleasant. Nobody, except for those who have lived out there for years, can match the survival instinct of a Native fellow in the bush. But he or she won't take you attitude kindly.
You're only interpreting my attitude as condescending. It was intended in a helpful way, pointing out the hell the lower 48 is becoming because of the development. If you know full well what it brings with it elsewhere, and want it, go for it. But don't claim Alaskans are overall such strong supporters of it. I don't only post on this board, and am on others more focused on the homesteading sort of lifestyle, and the responses on some of those other sites to road proposals from people currently in AK are quite the opposite of what has been posted by many here (though there have been some replies here opposed to the roads too if you read through), FWIW. I most definately read and thought about Floyd's post, but I simply had little to say in response.
I think in a societal collapse scenario you better worry about the two legged rodents! They are the ones that will eat more than what is in the pail!
I'm not a "survivalist", but I used to occasionally take survival courses at work. One of them, when I lived near Fairbanks, was taught by a guy who did survival courses for AST and Alyeska security. It was interesting (considering that since them I've been to Umiat many times, but had never been there at that time) with a scenario of surviving a plane crash on the river bank just off the runway at Umiat.
At one point he asked us to pick the one item that we wanted to have control of after the crash. I waited 'til the last, and got a few laughs (and one scowl) from my answer. Everyone else wanted something that would either keep them warm or produce food. I wanted the .38 caliber pistol... because, I said, it would mean that I control all of those other items and there would not be any bickering about it.
And besides, the first thing I'd do is shoot Doug (a fellow that everyone knew I didn't get along with, who was somewhat over weight), which would provide us with plenty of food until we were rescued!
I think in a societal collapse scenario you better worry about the two legged rodents! They are the ones that will eat more than what is in the pail!
I have ways of dealing with them.
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I worry, because we have seen many just like you over the years! 
