Power Generators and Misc (Fairbanks, Hope: refrigerator, live, military)

[MissingAll4Seasons]

I think we're all just having a communication breakdown here, in addition to having different perspectives. I think that ArcticHomesteader's confidence in his survival skills is being misinterpreted as unfounded cockiness; and I think that you all's advice is being misinterpreted as unwarranted nay-saying. We're all entitled to have different beliefs and opinions, and to chose different lifestyles, without having to resort to personal attacks and name calling. Arctic and I are doing our best to prepare ahead of time so that we improve our chances of survival. Perhaps rather than telling us that we won't be able to do it and all our previous experience is worth nothing, giving us some solid practical advice would help us be more useful. Then we could all come down from Def-Con.

I, for one, am sorry that I offended anyone by mentioning the possible negative side of developing more roads. At the moment, I am in the middle of a yet another construction zone because my quiet, rural/agricultural town has been paved over and quickly becoming just another surburb in the Seattle-sprawl... it's affecting my safety (crime rates have risen), health (air and water quality is wretched) and my wallet (property taxes have doubled)... understandably, my perspective is going to be a bit strong.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by susitna-flower

Well, that is about right! I have lived in both places...used to live in Barre VT, and drove all over the state....I grew gardens, and know how long and cold the winter is. You are cocky, and will not even accept that people here are trying to prepare you so you don't jump into something that could end sadly.

Rather like parents trying to warn their young son not to do something that will get him hurt, which of course we all know is only as effective as the person receiving the advice.

I would like to point out that currently here in Alaska there is a massive "woman hunt", two young ladies went for a one day camping treck in Denali on trails and there is no sign of them. Hundreds of people, heat seeking devices, planes, dogs a very intensive search and nothing.... KTUU.com | Alaska's news and information source | KTUU.com Alaska's news and information source for the stories..

People who have never been in the woods with bears have no business being there.

Just like a person like yourself, with no experience living off the land in Alaska....and especially where the winter temperatures are -40 to -60 for up to 4 months has no business trying to convince all of us that you have all the skills and ability to think ahead far enough not to get into trouble.

What strikes me though is the "cocky" decleration that people who live here shouldn't want roads....that whole concept offends me. I know that anywhere you might have lived in Vermont was within a mile or two of a road....so no matter how you roughed it, you could always have the freedom to leave.

I haven't read all the posts from the last two days but has anyone warned you that people in Manley might not take so kindly to another strange young man coming to town, after what happened .......the "Manley Murders" when a "crazy, drove into town", and murdered 1/2 the people living there! Well maybe not exactly 1/2, but ....you should read the book, Murders at -40...

It wasn't the road, it was the person....At least with a road everyone has an equal chance to leave.

Well we'll see what happens then won't we?

I know about the Denali thing. It's come up on gun boards I visit (mainly because of the NPS rules on guns there). Most seem to be betting it was a bad bear encounter. We'll see, I hope they're okay...


I've kept an eye on the weather there (and have looked at previous years too) at:History : Weather Underground

It certainly did get down to the -40 to -50 range several times but most days were around -30 or above. Just have to dress for it, be prepared for it (have plenty of firewood, etc.) and not do anything stupid in those temps.

Manley is about 15-16 miles from my land, so if it turns out they don't like me much, they won't see too much of me anyways. Yes I've read about those murders. If there wasn't a road there I suspect that guy would of ended up somewhere else (and yes, committed murder somewhere else instead) since he basically followed the road system.

And as for roads, it obviously isn't just "outsiders" like me who are opposed to them. Seems to me many in the bush itself actually don't want them. Even on this thread Floyd didn't seem to exhibit much support for roads to his hometown. On other boards there was considerable opposition by bush residents to roads. I don't know, I guess I just wouldn't move to the bush, and then ask for a road so it's no longer the bush because it's expensive trying to live a modern American lifestyle there. Strikes me as being just like the people trying to "develop" rural New England, people who move to the country and then try to bring the conveniences and services of the city to the country. Some lifestyles don't fit some areas, unless you have a lot of money to make it happen.

[Marty Van Diest]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

I know about the Denali thing. It's come up on gun boards I visit (mainly because of the NPS rules on guns there). Most seem to be betting it was a bad bear encounter. We'll see, I hope they're okay...

One of them called in on her cell phone this morning around 9 am...sounds like they are OK. But, as of noon they still couldn't find them.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by Marty Van Diest

One of them called in on her cell phone this morning around 9 am...sounds like they are OK. But, as of noon they still couldn't find them.

And this is why GPS and portable SAR beacons are a good thing

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons

And this is why GPS and portable SAR beacons are a good thing

Of course, knowledge of how to use a map and compass and having them are even better, as electronics are more prone to failure, to avoid getting lost in the first place.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Of course, knowledge of how to use a map and compass and having them are even better, as electronics are more prone to failure, to avoid getting lost in the first place.

Hehe - you know gurlz can't read maps!

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Of course, knowledge of how to use a map and compass and having them are even better, as electronics are more prone to failure, to avoid getting lost in the first place.

That's true. That's why several Alaskans have been trying to tell you a few things in this forum, but a couple of you seem to be unwilling to learn from their knowledge about Alaska. Instead, the two of you continue ahead with your ideas, which is a good thing, except for a sort of cockiness mixed in.

Several times a year we have folks coming to Alaska, ones who won't take any advise, and then get lost. Some die in the process, while others have to be rescued at the cost of the State. Just a week or so ago, another fellow from the lower-48 got lost, and decided to set the forest afire to increase the possibility of being found and rescued. Then there comes fool with grandiose ideas, full of adventure, exploring Alaska...later to die in a bus. Then there is a dummy from the lower-48 who believes he knows all about bears. He brings his female friend along for the experience, and this experience turns out to be claws and teeth on their flesh. None of these people wanted to listen. Ah, but it doesn't end there. We also had a very famous Japanese fellow who would go outdoors in his little tent "to sleep with the bears." A bear ate him in Russia while in his tent.

One of you mentioned a "concrete refrigerator" and "wind or solar power." Why do you think such technology is not widely used throughout the continental the US, and in Alaska? How much power is required to run a refrigerator? How about the cost of a wind generator? Just curious.

[arctichomesteader]

One of you mentioned a "concrete refrigerator" and "wind or solar power." Why do you think such technology is not widely used throughout the continental the US, and in Alaska? How much power is required to run a refrigerator? How about the cost of a wind generator? Just curious.

Absorption or compressor type? There are absorption types that don't use too much electricity. But I wasn't the one interested in doing that stuff though...

[Marty Van Diest]

Originally Posted by Marty Van Diest

One of them called in on her cell phone this morning around 9 am...sounds like they are OK. But, as of noon they still couldn't find them.

They finally found them around 5 PM...she called on her cell phone again.

Shoulda called earlier......

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

That's true. That's why several Alaskans have been trying to tell you a few things in this forum, but a couple of you seem to be unwilling to learn from their knowledge about Alaska. Instead, the two of you continue ahead with your ideas, which is a good thing, except for a sort of cockiness mixed in.

I listen to the locals' advice when they give me some... I'm just getting different advice from different Alaskans

Originally Posted by RayinAK

One of you mentioned a "concrete refrigerator" and "wind or solar power." Why do you think such technology is not widely used throughout the continental the US, and in Alaska? How much power is required to run a refrigerator? How about the cost of a wind generator? Just curious.

Why aren't alternate energy sources used more extensively? Because it's more convenient to just plug into the grid and you don't have to be conscious of conserving power as much on the grid... at least until fuel energy prices sore like they are right now.

Avg refrigerator (frost-free, 16 cubic feet) = 725 watts an hour. Refrigerators, although turned "on" all the time, actually cycle on and off at a rate that depends on a number of factors. These factors include how well it is insulated, room temperature, freezer temperature, how often the door is opened, if the coils are clean, if it is defrosted regularly, and the condition of the door seals. To get an approximate figure for the number of hours that a refrigerator actually operates at its maximum wattage, divide the total time the refrigerator is plugged in by three. So (725 x 24)/3 = 5800 watts (5.8kWh) a day , or 2000+ kWh a year, assuming that you have a standard-sized fridge and not an super-energy efficient one.

Newer models, depending on refrigerator volume and level of efficiency, use between 450 kWh per year (for a 15 cubic foot top-freezer model) and 850 kWh per year (for a 26.7 cubic foot side-by-side model). ENERGY STAR compact refrigerators and freezers (less than 7.75 cubic feet) use at least 20% less energy than required by current federal standards. The model I bought uses 465 kWh per year and cost me only a $150 more than a similar model with a lower ENERGY STAR rating. It paid back the extra in energy savings in 4 months. If I were running straight DC, it would have cost me $225 more, but would only use 375 kWh a year.

You'd have to do an electrical load calculation to determine the exact size of your system and how much the individual components would cost. But our system, big enough to handle kitchen appliances and all my husband's tech gear (including the mini-home theater) should cost us between $25,000 and $80,000 - depending on whether we 1) do a lot of the installation ourselves; 2) purchase extra back-up batteries; 3) use refurbished components; and 4) have to buy an extra tall tower to catch the wind at the best speed. The quote I received to freight everything (by air) was $5,000. Granted, this is a lot of money to fork over (which is why it's going to be inculded in our construction loan)... but someone already connected to the grid could get a smaller system to help out for much less. We put a PV panel on our current house for $3000 and it was enough to cut our winter heating bills in half. However, if it's the difference between having power or none, or extending the existing line from the street in a more rural area... even $60,000 would be cheap in comparison. And unlike grid power, you have very low "maintenance" costs (new batteries every 4-10 years) and aren't subject to outages or rate hikes.