bear attack question (Valdez: live, moving, yard) - Alaska (AK) - City-Data Forum

akbound08 · 08-22-2008, 09:57 AM

does anyone know if a .45 acp with 230 grain shells, is powerful enough to stop a bear? i was told by my friend that when i move to valdez and we want to go walk in the woods that we need to carry a pistol for bears. would a .45 kill a bear or just **** it off? i know he used to carry a desert eagle .50 but i don't yet know what he carrys now, and i want to get my own pistol so i don't have to rely on him everytime i want to go for a walk. i can gaet a .45 acp for 160 bucks in wi. should i get it or wait and find something in ak?

arctichomesteader · 08-22-2008, 10:02 AM

Black, possibly, grizzly, wouldn't want to depend on it...

Rance · 08-22-2008, 10:14 AM

But you could always use it on yourself to spare the pain and agony of listening to your skull get crushed in the jaws of a bear!

DannyL · 08-22-2008, 10:51 AM

It's not the bullet, it's the velocity. 45 acp just doesn't have it.

Moose Whisperer · 08-22-2008, 12:38 PM

44 mag is usually considered the "smallest" handgun that could be relied on to stop a bear, and even then there are alway debates among the "experts" about it. For handguns, probably the best advice is to get really proficient with what ever you are carrying.

arctichomesteader · 08-22-2008, 12:41 PM

Well bullet size is part of the equation. Lots of buffalo and big bears were put down in the 1800's with slow moving but heavy bullets...muzzleloaders then cartridges like 45-70, 45-90, 50-90, etc. But the .45 acp is not a good bear round. I could tell that just by knowing about the black bears down here. And if it's just barely enough gun for them, it ain't enough for grizzlies. I've wondered at times how my colt walker would do on bears (more powerful than a .45 acp), but I'll stick with rifles myself...

Glitch · 08-22-2008, 02:09 PM

A .45 ACP with a 230 grain bullet, fired from an M1911 will travel at 900 feet per second. This gives it a muzzle energy of 500 foot pounds.

A .44 Mag with a 250 grain bullet, fired from a Ruger Redhawk will travel at 1,200 feet per second. This gives it a muzzle energy of 800 foot pounds.

A .3006 with a 220 grain bullet, fired from a Springfield rifle will travel at 2,300 feet per second. This gives it a muzzle energy of 2,584 foot pounds.

A .50 BMG with a 700 grain bullet will travel 2,800 feet per second. This gives it a muzzle energy of 12,184 foot pounds.

Pistols and revolvers don't have the energy to stop large game. You want a firearm that can deliver at least 2,000 foot pounds of energy. That doesn't mean pistols and revolvers aren't useful, but only as a backup and only if you have nothing else that is better.

akck · 08-22-2008, 03:07 PM

It sounds like a revolver is best used to let the bear know you're armed and hope he thinks it's something more powerful and leaves you alone. For real protection, carry a rifle or shotgun with slugs.

starlite9 · 08-22-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akbound08

does anyone know if a .45 acp with 230 grain shells, is powerful enough to stop a bear? i was told by my friend that when i move to valdez and we want to go walk in the woods that we need to carry a pistol for bears. would a .45 kill a bear or just **** it off? i know he used to carry a desert eagle .50 but i don't yet know what he carrys now, and i want to get my own pistol so i don't have to rely on him everytime i want to go for a walk. i can gaet a .45 acp for 160 bucks in wi. should i get it or wait and find something in ak?

I am quite sure it will kill a bear, the issue though is will it do it before it does you... I would pretty much bet against something that only has a few hundred pounds of muzzle energy against something that may be much bigger than that.

In Valdez, you have mostly black bears that are a lot smaller than the brown bears, but once in a while the browns pass though the area, unless you are up past Keystone Canyon or Thompson Pass where there are a lot more of the Brown's. I use to get a spring Black Bear every spring up Mineral Creek back in the 70's when I lived there. They would come down into the yard almost daily and scared the kids a lot. A .45 would be more affective on a two hundred pound Black Bear than a big Brown/Grizzly Bear that is twice to three times bigger, although the largest Black Bear I got there was about 350 lbs.

There is a book called "Alaska Bear Tales" and it was written by a guy that went around and interviewed all the survivors of bear attacks in Alaska and the friends of those that didn't, what they did and didn't do.

A .44 Mag. is what I carry in the airplane, snowmachining and in general for a basic hand gun for protection. I prefer to carry my model 870 12 GA shot gun with the "Bear Barrel" and loaded with slugs if I am kicking around and not hunting. It has sights and is accurate up to 50 yards or so, but if the bear is that far away, I don't care...

I don't like the Automatics in the sub zero cold, they are too easily jammed when the cold gets the grease to a point where it is like a heavy glue. You need to keep it either dry or very warm. A revolver is pretty basic and doesn't seem to be as much of a problem in the cold climate.

Besides, if you are in a group, you don't have to outrun the bear, you only have to outrun the slowest person in the group, if that is you, then you need to shoot the faster ones in the knee so they are the slowest one...

If you are by yourself, then you are probably screwed anyway... make the bear really hurt for its meal...

Here is a website that gives you some data on the different cal. and what they do. Click on the round you have questions on and then look up at the top of the page for the results...

http://www.on-targetrange.com/energy.shtml (broken link)

Wanderer818 · 08-23-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starlite9

I am quite sure it will kill a bear, the issue though is will it do it before it does you... I would pretty much bet against something that only has a few hundred pounds of muzzle energy against something that may be much bigger than that.

In Valdez, you have mostly black bears that are a lot smaller than the brown bears, but once in a while the browns pass though the area, unless you are up past Keystone Canyon or Thompson Pass where there are a lot more of the Brown's. I use to get a spring Black Bear every spring up Mineral Creek back in the 70's when I lived there. They would come down into the yard almost daily and scared the kids a lot. A .45 would be more affective on a two hundred pound Black Bear than a big Brown/Grizzly Bear that is twice to three times bigger, although the largest Black Bear I got there was about 350 lbs.

There is a book called "Alaska Bear Tales" and it was written by a guy that went around and interviewed all the survivors of bear attacks in Alaska and the friends of those that didn't, what they did and didn't do.

A .44 Mag. is what I carry in the airplane, snowmachining and in general for a basic hand gun for protection. I prefer to carry my model 870 12 GA shot gun with the "Bear Barrel" and loaded with slugs if I am kicking around and not hunting. It has sights and is accurate up to 50 yards or so, but if the bear is that far away, I don't care...

I don't like the Automatics in the sub zero cold, they are too easily jammed when the cold gets the grease to a point where it is like a heavy glue. You need to keep it either dry or very warm. A revolver is pretty basic and doesn't seem to be as much of a problem in the cold climate.

Besides, if you are in a group, you don't have to outrun the bear, you only have to outrun the slowest person in the group, if that is you, then you need to shoot the faster ones in the knee so they are the slowest one...

If you are by yourself, then you are probably screwed anyway... make the bear really hurt for its meal...

Here is a website that gives you some data on the different cal. and what they do. Click on the round you have questions on and then look up at the top of the page for the results...

Muzzle Energy Computer (http://www.on-targetrange.com/energy.shtml - broken link)

I was diggin on this about the 12g 870 instead of a pistol. Thinking to myself, 'yup, so far so good, fresh cup o' mud, morning blaze, sensible response from one who's there, has experience and knowledge of the subject at hand. Great advice on the "frozen grease" in a Pistol.

For me it's "Chuck" and "Buster", Colt .45 ACP's for men. "Faith" and "Gloria", M29's for anything bigger than 350 pounds, as backups if the 870 Nitro ain't handy, and it's always handy.

Then I get to the "shoot em in the knee and slow em down bit.",

Speeeewwwwwww!!!!!!!! All over my NEW laptop cause my dell got wasted on the lonesome kids thread. I'm dying here! Just dying!