I now see why people die in the woods in Alaska (Anchorage: schools, camping)

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Annie Metal

maybe they shouldn't be going around hunting moose! anyone ever think of that? what did the moose ever do to them, to deserve to die?

I'm going bear hunting in a couple weeks in VT (could now but I'll wait, by the end of the month the fur's usually a bit nicer, and I'll have until November 19 to get a bear). Are you a bear hugger too? Animals kill other animals all the time for food. Humans are part of the food chain, as hunters and gatherers, and sometimes prey if an animal overpowers a human. I find it telling that the animal rights supporters usually (yeah there's exceptions but as a rule) are ignorant people from big cities who haven't got a clue how to survive unless someone else does all their work for them (namely, growing or butchering food, wrapping it in plastic, putting easy microwave instructions on the package, etc.). We've got millions of ignorant people in this country who couldn't last a week on their own, and they're intent on forcing their ignorance on the intelligent. The PETA type groups prey on the ignorant city dwellers in places like CA. Keep your ignorance of the real world in California where it fits in, people in other states, such as Alaska or much of VT, won't tolerate it.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by Wrennie

Exactly. Plus it's a bigtime f&g violation to leave your kill in the field. They HAD to stay with it or pack it out. You have to think about that before you shoot.

Even that isn't enough, sometimes. Was a guy who flew to one of the islands near Kodiak to hunt elk, then a wicked storm came up and it was about an extra week before his pick up plane could make it back. In the meantime, a bear got his elk - the guy wasn't going to argue with a bear, after all, and he didn't have a bear permit, so he couldn't shoot it. His life wasn't in danger, just his year's worth of meat. Fish and Feathers charged him with wanton waste, in spite of there not having been anything else he could do, confiscated his rifle and nailed him with a big fine.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by karibear

Even that isn't enough, sometimes. Was a guy who flew to one of the islands near Kodiak to hunt elk, then a wicked storm came up and it was about an extra week before his pick up plane could make it back. In the meantime, a bear got his elk - the guy wasn't going to argue with a bear, after all, and he didn't have a bear permit, so he couldn't shoot it. His life wasn't in danger, just his year's worth of meat. Fish and Feathers charged him with wanton waste, in spite of there not having been anything else he could do, confiscated his rifle and nailed him with a big fine.

You can kill a bear in defense of property not just your life. Still, based on what I've read about the F&G Dept. in AK, reporting to them anything that may get you in trouble isn't too smart (I'm not one to advocate breaking a legit. law but what I've read is pretty bad). I remember reading a couple stories on the AK Outdoors forums that people who shot moose found the antlers had some old damage on them, reported it to F&G, they were fined thousands of dollars because of that. F&G knew they'd done nothing themselves to the antlers, no intent to break any rules, didn't care, went after them with whopping fines. I think the F&G department is shooting itself in the foot doing things like that when there's obviously no intent of doing something wrong, just results in unreported takes/etc. out of fear of the fines, messing up the calculations and such used for determining seasons and limits. Results in hostility and less cooperation.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

You can kill a bear in defense of property not just your life. Still, based on what I've read about the F&G Dept. in AK, reporting to them anything that may get you in trouble isn't too smart (I'm not one to advocate breaking a legit. law but what I've read is pretty bad). I remember reading a couple stories on the AK Outdoors forums that people who shot moose found the antlers had some old damage on them, reported it to F&G, they were fined thousands of dollars because of that. F&G knew they'd done nothing themselves to the antlers, no intent to break any rules, didn't care, went after them with whopping fines. I think the F&G department is shooting itself in the foot doing things like that when there's obviously no intent of doing something wrong, just results in unreported takes/etc. out of fear of the fines, messing up the calculations and such used for determining seasons and limits. Results in hostility and less cooperation.

There are ways to get even. One of the favorite games when I first got to Kodiak was for someone to 'find' part of an eagle carcas on a beach. Someone official would have to go out and write up a report. Then a couple weeks later, another part of the carcas would be 'found' on a different beach - back to more report writing. It could take months for the whole carcas to be found, that way. Not that anyone ever killed one, it was just that finding one on a beach covered with sand fleas led to some very ingenious pranks with what Ma Nature provided.

[Wrennie]

Originally Posted by karibear

Even that isn't enough, sometimes. Was a guy who flew to one of the islands near Kodiak to hunt elk, then a wicked storm came up and it was about an extra week before his pick up plane could make it back. In the meantime, a bear got his elk - the guy wasn't going to argue with a bear, after all, and he didn't have a bear permit, so he couldn't shoot it. His life wasn't in danger, just his year's worth of meat. Fish and Feathers charged him with wanton waste, in spite of there not having been anything else he could do, confiscated his rifle and nailed him with a big fine.

My bear rule would have come into play on that one.
That's NOT a frolicking bear

[Wrennie]

Originally Posted by Rance

Can you tell it's nearly a full moon?

Yep, excellent time to hunt.

[Rance]

So anyway...let this be a lesson people. If your going hunting this season...think about what can happen out there. Be prepared for the worst.

[icarian]

Originally Posted by Rance

So anyway...let this be a lesson people. If your going hunting this season...think about what can happen out there. Be prepared for the worst.

So true. I will say that I am AMAZED at some of the locations hunters end up being in. I've been doing alot of night/night vision goggle (relevant because you can easily see the campfires under goggles) over the last three weeks...and I've been in the middle of B.F.E. for the Interior and sure enough, there's a campfire. If ANYTHING happened to some of these hunters, it would be a hard way to go as far as getting to them (provided they have a satphone). Hard bark...and pretty cool to see men's presence way, way, way out there from the nearest road or river system.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best is a good motto for such situations.

[Barkingowl]

I remember seeing an article in the Frontiersman last winter about a local elementary school taking the kids up to Hatcher Pass for winter survival training. I'd hope that the training is reinforced over the years & sticks with the children.

[Wrennie]

Originally Posted by Barkingowl

I remember seeing an article in the Frontiersman last winter about a local elementary school taking the kids up to Hatcher Pass for winter survival training. I'd hope that the training is reinforced over the years & sticks with the children.

The classes are required here. My daughter had to pack everything she'd possibly need in a coffee can before they boated out to another island. Good training.