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Old 08-20-2009, 12:45 PM
 
4,986 posts, read 8,613,640 times
Reputation: 3266

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Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
Moose,

Elections, not polls of the day, are the decisive points. I want Obama to implement what he said during his campaign. If people change their mind, they have the 2010 elections to send him a signal that he must change course.
Then you concede that Pat's argument is correct. If the public changes it's mind, the program will be shoved down their throats utill some arbitrary point when their voices somehow become valid again.

And, by your reasoning, you have no justification complaining about all of the damage done during the 8 years of the Frat Boy. He won too, so who are you to oppose what was done in between elections?
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 1,915,216 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer View Post
Then you concede that Pat's argument is correct. If the public changes it's mind, the program will be shoved down their throats utill some arbitrary point when their voices somehow become valid again.

And, by your reasoning, you have no justification complaining about all of the damage done during the 8 years of the Frat Boy. He won too, so who are you to oppose what was done in between elections?
Elementary errors in thought and logic, my dear fellow. Allow me to dust off some of the cobwebs in the interstices of your mind.

Elections are not held at "arbitrary" points. You don't change policy depending on which way the poll wind is blowing on any given day or week. That would be stupid not to mention disastrous. You can vote out people you don't like and "unshove" what was "shoved" down your throat.

About your second point - Frat Boy didn't win in 2000. He was crowned by the Supreme Court.

Also, I did not say Pat cannot complain, protest, demonstrate, make her voice heard etc etc. All that is very healthy in a democracy. I just don't buy her "shoved down the throat" line apropos of health care reform. It shows that at the very least she is ill-informed.

And by the way, Frat Boy did shove a war down our throat, and before doing so, he shoveled a great deal of lies too, to get us to swallow the war tonic. We paid for that "shove" in blood and treasure, and a great deal of economic misery.

To make a judgement about Obama one way or the other, you will have to wait a few years.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:39 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,272 posts, read 2,053,032 times
Reputation: 718
And now back to the garage sale!

Wassup with the gold nugget?? Did it sell yet?
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:51 PM
 
4,986 posts, read 8,613,640 times
Reputation: 3266
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
You don't change policy depending on which way the poll wind is blowing on any given day or week. That would be stupid not to mention disastrous. You can vote out people you don't like and "unshove" what was "shoved" down your throat.
So then why are congressmen and senators even bothering with town hall meetings? Apparently they don't subscribe to your peculiar view of ignoring public opinion on dates other than those designated as official elections! And I suppose politicians who solicit public comment before deciding how to vote on a particular issue are somehow irresponsible? After all, everything they needed to know about policy direction was spoken at the previous election. No mid-course corrections are needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
To make a judgement about Obama one way or the other, you will have to wait a few years.
Uh, no, I'm perfectly comfortable making that judgement right now!
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 1,915,216 times
Reputation: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Whisperer View Post
So then why are congressmen and senators even bothering with town hall meetings?
That's democracy in action for you. Each congressman should be able to seek input from his constituents and listen to their views on matters important to them, while shaping policy.

Quote:
Apparently they don't subscribe to your peculiar view of ignoring public opinion on dates other than those designated as official elections!
Please see above. I hope I have cleared the misunderstanding.

Quote:
Uh, no, I'm perfectly comfortable making that judgement right now!
Be my guest, grab a beer & cigar
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:45 PM
 
4,986 posts, read 8,613,640 times
Reputation: 3266
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
Be my guest, grab a beer & cigar
I prefer a good Pinot or Cab!

3 Blind Moose - wine - cabernet sauvignon
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Old 08-20-2009, 04:49 PM
 
22,030 posts, read 28,493,624 times
Reputation: 17168
Pat. I didn't watch the video; I don't watch any of the videos posted here (and I click very few of the linkies). I don't even pay attention when a video is posted unless it's got commentary along with it. I can't understand from what you posted whether you expect me to "lambast" him for veering off topic, but I won't be doing so for reasons already explained. It does seem that all he did was post a video of something or other, instead of going off on an ignorant tangent concerning fish processing businesses in Alaska. Since it's led to an interesting discussion between him and Moose, I see no real problem here.

Last edited by Metlakatla; 08-20-2009 at 05:06 PM..
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Lake Kimble, TX.
240 posts, read 477,071 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by notreesininceland View Post
What a fantastic riposte by Barney Frank a few hours ago. Frame this!


YouTube - Barney Frank Confronts Woman At Townhall Comparing Obama To Hitler
Uh, got news for ya, the lady in the Bwaney Fwank video was not "right wing." She's a Demoncrapt!

CNN's Larry King showed the above video of Barney Frank laying the smack down on a woman at a townhall meeting who compared Obama to Hitler. CNN left out the fact that this woman is a Lyndon LaRouche Democrat.


In the full video (via Allahpundit), the woman says, "This policy is already on the way out. It already has been defeated by LaRouche." She also underscores her crazy LaRouchite beliefs by claiming that the U.S. has "30% real unemployment". No one disputes that LaRouchites are on the fringe -- but it's indisputable that they are fringe Democrats. They oppose Obamacare because they want a single-payer plan.


While Nancy Pelosi and liberal talk-show host Bill Press have been smearing protesters as fascists and Nazis, left-wing bloggers have been attacking protesters for comparing Obama to Hitler. It seems townhall attendees just can't win.


Just as it would be unfair to assume that all Think Progress readers are idiots who call conservatives Nazis just because a few commenters do, it's a cheap trick to pretend (http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/08/video_democrats_bring_obamaash.asp - broken link) that the few people who show up with Obama as Hitler signs are representative of the protesters (especially when many of those people are Lyndon LaRouche Democrats).


Most likely a plant by Bwaney to try to discredit real protesters for the cameras.....
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Too far from Alaska
1,435 posts, read 2,396,407 times
Reputation: 276
thanks for clarifying this.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, California
1,255 posts, read 1,915,216 times
Reputation: 756
Pawdog,

So a crazy LaRouche Democrat rants and accuses Obama of advancing a Nazi policy. SO? What about the HUNDREDS of rightwing nuts who are doing the same all across the country?

For someone who claims to set the record straight you are remarkably loose with it. The Speaker did not accuse just any protester of being fascists and Nazis. She called out those who are showing up with swastikas, Hitler images etc and called that behaviour un-American (which it is) and so on. Such protestors need to be condemned and I applaud the Speaker for that.
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