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Old 01-19-2013, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
13,491 posts, read 12,316,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
What about a smaller commuter rail project using existing infrastructure?
You'd have to get permission from the rail companies to use their tracks. You'd also have to work around their schedule. They're not always super accommodating with many things. This idea has been talked about, but you can see where it went.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Averill Park, NY
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Well there are also many abandoned lines around the area which could be refurbished and put back into service.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Rail tends to get higher usage in non transit areas , but this indeed is a little to big. A small Regional Rail network of 2 lines and 2 Light Rail or Bus Rapid Transit lines is all Albany region needs.
They already have BRT in place on Central Ave/State Street.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
Well there are also many abandoned lines around the area which could be refurbished and put back into service.
You paying for it?
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Averill Park, NY
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Our bus rapid transit is pretty much a bus line with limited stops. Nothing much more to it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
Well there are also many abandoned lines around the area which could be refurbished and put back into service.
Just because the lines aren't being used doesn't mean they are abandoned. They are still owned by a rail company. You can't just say hey you're not using them so we are. And where would you like the money to come from? We can't even keep CDTA out of the red so how is a rail service going to survive? The population is far too spread out. There isn't a concentrated area with a dense population in the region.

Rochester, which has a much higher population than Albany and the Capitol Region, used to have a rail service. There's a good portion of it underground and appears to be abandoned, but surely someone somewhere owns it. There used to be trolley cars, too, in Albany and surrounding cities. Many of those tracks are long gone along with the trolleys.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Averill Park, NY
21 posts, read 62,607 times
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Its an investment which would pay itself off. Yes, its a slight risk to take but there is demand for service along the Central Avenue and Northway corridors. And for a cheaper alternative, you lease the trackage rights from CP Rail (they own a lot of the abandoned rail lines) and add service. If the service is profitable, you keep it. If it doesn't work, you stop leasing the tracks and drop the service.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:23 PM
 
26,590 posts, read 57,281,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
Its an investment which would pay itself off. Yes, its a slight risk to take but there is demand for service along the Central Avenue and Northway corridors. And for a cheaper alternative, you lease the trackage rights from CP Rail (they own a lot of the abandoned rail lines) and add service. If the service is profitable, you keep it. If it doesn't work, you stop leasing the tracks and drop the service.
Let me give you a clue. Public transit is NEVER "profitable." It is highly subsidized by the government.

The average rail FRR is under 50% of operating costs. That doesn't cover capital costs. To add two lines that intersect at an intermodal--even if part of that project was based on existing lines which needed extensive rehabilitation--would be over a billion dollars in track work and crossing grades/signage/signals, building an intermodal and administrative spaces, procuring rail cars, ticket machines, a maintenance barn, and information systems to support it all.

You are looking at it with blinders. "Drop the service. Um, right. And what about the billion dollars you've spent just to get it up and running? The tracks are the smallest part of the picture.

Again, who is going to pay for this? Do you know anything about public transit operations and capital expenditures? I do. I work in the field.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
13,491 posts, read 12,316,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
Its an investment which would pay itself off. Yes, its a slight risk to take but there is demand for service along the Central Avenue and Northway corridors. And for a cheaper alternative, you lease the trackage rights from CP Rail (they own a lot of the abandoned rail lines) and add service. If the service is profitable, you keep it. If it doesn't work, you stop leasing the tracks and drop the service.
It's much more than a slight risk. You're talking about spending MILLIONS of dollars. We can't even fund schools and you want to spend millions on rail? Sure it sounds easy you just lease some stuff and say hey if it doesn't work whatever, but this isn't the real world. Leases run for years often times decades. Who will be responsible for repair and maintenance? Many of the old tracks are in VERY rough shape. Repairing them alone is millions. That's money that could be used for education, providing better school breakfasts and lunches, cleaning up brown fields, etc. There's already plenty of things we could spend millions on, but we don't have the money.

And just because you build it doesn't mean they'll come. How much demand is there really on Central Avenue? Where would you put tracks? There's NO run on Central Ave for tracks without taking away driving lanes and that's NOT practical. Demand on the Northway? They can't even fill up the CDTA/Trailways buses! Many times, they are practically empty. People have posted on this thread about that previously. Demand needs to be thousands of people and not a dozen a few times a day.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
13,491 posts, read 12,316,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Let me give you a clue. Public transit is NEVER "profitable." It is highly subsidized by the government.

The average rail FRR is under 50% of operating costs. That doesn't cover capital costs. To add two lines that intersect at an intermodal--even if part of that project was based on existing lines which needed extensive rehabilitation--would be over a billion dollars in track work and crossing grades/signage/signals, building an intermodal and administrative spaces, procuring rail cars, ticket machines, a maintenance barn, and information systems to support it all.

You are looking at it with blinders. "Drop the service. Um, right. And what about the billion dollars you've spent just to get it up and running? The tracks are the smallest part of the picture.

Again, who is going to pay for this? Do you know anything about public transit operations and capital expenditures? I do. I work in the field.
It's BEYOND not profitable! It's so far in the hole that the government practically owns it ie Amtrak! CDTA is so subsidized that is should be called NYS.

The state did have several cars rusting away storage for some project that was talked about. They rotted for over a decade! They finally sold them at a MASSIVE loss for scrap metal!

With the economy that way it has been for several years now, projects like this aren't even worth talking about. They are NOT going to happen unless Tinkerbell appears and waves her magic wand. This is the real world. Not Disney World.

The state is in so much economic trouble right now as is the country. Why would anyone be serious about spending millions upon millions of dollars on a pipe dream? We can't even fund our schools, our roads, or repair/maintain our bridges! So yeah please let's flush millions down the toilet.
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