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Old 01-19-2013, 05:58 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 62,054,681 times
Reputation: 13166

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
It's BEYOND not profitable! It's so far in the hole that the government practically owns it ie Amtrak! CDTA is so subsidized that is should be called NYS.

The state did have several cars rusting away storage for some project that was talked about. They rotted for over a decade! They finally sold them at a MASSIVE loss for scrap metal!

With the economy that way it has been for several years now, projects like this aren't even worth talking about. They are NOT going to happen unless Tinkerbell appears and waves her magic wand. This is the real world. Not Disney World.

The state is in so much economic trouble right now as is the country. Why would anyone be serious about spending millions upon millions of dollars on a pipe dream? We can't even fund our schools, our roads, or repair/maintain our bridges! So yeah please let's flush millions down the toilet.
Actually the FRR on Amtrak is about 70%--higher than most local public transit. That number has increased slightly each year as has Amtrak's on time and customer satisfaction rate. While it's still years in the future, there is some anticipation that Amtrak might at some point in the next few decades become self-sufficient--at least as far as operating costs go.

CDTA's FRR is around 22%, lower than average. One of the things that drives FRR down is reduced fares to students, seniors, and disabled as well as free fares for people receiving certain government entitlements. While mandated by the Federal government, the reimbursement rate is either nothing or far less than the operating cost, particularly with on-demand services. The worse the economy gets in any area, the lower the FRR goes. FYI--Centro's FRR is around 30%.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Averill Park, NY
21 posts, read 72,972 times
Reputation: 12
I'm not saying take all state funding away from education to pay for a rail system. But it'd be a better idea to invest in rail in the future than building more highways, exits and lanes.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:16 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 62,054,681 times
Reputation: 13166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
I'm not saying take all state funding away from education to pay for a rail system. But it'd be a better idea to invest in rail in the future than building more highways, exits and lanes.
CDTA had to borrow $10M from the bank to finance the purchase of 20 new transit buses because they couldn't get the funding from the state and FTA--and you think they'll get a billion dollars to build a very limited use rail system which will benefit a very minimal population who aren't utilizing the already available bus mass transit. What makes you think they'd use the train?
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Averill Park, NY
21 posts, read 72,972 times
Reputation: 12
Bus transit is slow and uses congested roads. If you offer a faster alternative to congested roads people will use it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:43 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 62,054,681 times
Reputation: 13166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
Bus transit is slow and uses congested roads. If you offer a faster alternative to congested roads people will use it.
Not likely. People would have to get from their homes to the train station and park. Other than some very outlying areas with minimal populations, most people aren't going to drive to a commuter lot, pay to park, wait for the train, pay to ride, transfer to a bus to get to a point a few blocks from their office when they could be at their desk in the same amount of time for less money.

It's foolish to extend rail out to areas like Poestenkill, Averill Park, Duanesburg, Revena, etc. as the potential ridership population is so minimal that the FRR would be less than 10%.

BRT and HOV3 lanes on the Interstates using exiting lanes would be much better options that have very low start up costs and offer high incentives to use them. BRT is extensible and can change quickly and with minimal cost to serve shifting population centers and ridership.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Averill Park, NY
21 posts, read 72,972 times
Reputation: 12
I like the idea of BRT, I just hate how it's been implemented. BusPlus is literally just a limited stop route alone Central Avenue.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Averill Park, NY
21 posts, read 72,972 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
It's foolish to extend rail out to areas like Poestenkill, Averill Park, Duanesburg, Revena, etc. as the potential ridership population is so minimal that the FRR would be less than 10%.
Yes, that's true. I'm not suggesting those areas. I'm thinking more along the lines of the fast growing areas of Saratoga County.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:05 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,856,553 times
Reputation: 4581
Albany can start about with a Regional Rail network of 2 lines , and a busway then see where that goes before building a Light Rail or Streetcar.... The State / Feds do own most of the tracks except south of Albany on the Western side of the hudson which are owned by CSX. People do seem open to a regional network up their for commuting and tourism proposes... A Busway along Western Ave would be a start...honestly all you need to do is beef up the Bus system.... Streetcars can be added later to help overcrowded bus lines. 90,000 people use Transit in Albany-Troy every day , so demand is there. I know cities and towns have come up with redevelopment plans centered around the Amtrak stop or future Transitway.

Line 1
-Glen Falls
-Ganesvoort
-Saratoga Springs
-Baliston Spa
-East Glenville
-Schenectady
-Rotterdam
-Colonie
-Central Ave - Albany
-Arbor Hill
-Albany-Rensselaer
-Castle-on-Hudson
-Hudson


Line 2
-Amsterdam
-Scotia
-Schenectady
-Rotterdam
-Colonie
-Central Ave - Albany
-Arbor Hill
-North Albany
-Watervliet-Troy
-Cohoes
-Waterford
-Mechanicville
(Seasonal Winter Service to Vermont Ski Resorts)
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,626,751 times
Reputation: 28463
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
While it's still years in the future, there is some anticipation that Amtrak might at some point in the next few decades become self-sufficient--at least as far as operating costs go.
Decades is LOOOOOOONG time to wait for something to at least support its self let alone make a profit. Especially since it's been around for decades. Imagine if you put your money in the bank and you had to wait your entire lifetime to make a penny. Is it worth it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
I'm not saying take all state funding away from education to pay for a rail system. But it'd be a better idea to invest in rail in the future than building more highways, exits and lanes.
Take ALL state funding away? Hell, no! You can't take ANY of it away! Schools are struggling as it is. If this keeps up, we'll have an entire generation of morons and we'll be completely screwed. It won't be the fault of those kids either.

Who's building more highways and lanes? Very rarely are exits built. In my entire lifetime, I can only think of 2 or 3 exits that have been built on the Northway and 1 on I-90 (the free part around Albany). A few exits have been reconfigured due to age, traffic, roads moving, bridge construction, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
CDTA had to borrow $10M from the bank to finance the purchase of 20 new transit buses because they couldn't get the funding from the state and FTA--and you think they'll get a billion dollars to build a very limited use rail system which will benefit a very minimal population who aren't utilizing the already available bus mass transit. What makes you think they'd use the train?
Who's really going to be paying that $10M back? Can't fill buses so why would trains fill up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sman6293 View Post
Bus transit is slow and uses congested roads. If you offer a faster alternative to congested roads people will use it.
Have you ever taken a train or used a subway system? Aside from massive cities like New York City or Boston, they are rarely faster. Trut me. My other half took Amtrak from Rensselaer to Rochester and it took almost 5 hours! You can drive that in less than 3 hours. The only reason he takes the train periodically is for work.

How often are roads really congested? There's ZERO congestion in the Capitol Region compared to places like Atlanta and Charlotte. Atlanta has 8 lanes going in each direction and I-85 is frequently a parking lot. Not THAT is congestion!


Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Not likely. People would have to get from their homes to the train station and park. Other than some very outlying areas with minimal populations, most people aren't going to drive to a commuter lot, pay to park, wait for the train, pay to ride, transfer to a bus to get to a point a few blocks from their office when they could be at their desk in the same amount of time for less money.

It's foolish to extend rail out to areas like Poestenkill, Averill Park, Duanesburg, Revena, etc. as the potential ridership population is so minimal that the FRR would be less than 10%.

BRT and HOV3 lanes on the Interstates using exiting lanes would be much better options that have very low start up costs and offer high incentives to use them. BRT is extensible and can change quickly and with minimal cost to serve shifting population centers and ridership.
Why would anyone drive halfway to work to park their car, pay for a train/bus ticket, sit out in weather (remember it snows here), and then still have to pay for vehicle registration, license fees, gas, vehicle maintenance, and car insurance? I HATED taking the bus before I had a license. A 20 minute drive would take an hour and a half by bus. And I'd have to take 3 or 4 buses to get there! So not worth it!

Duanesburg? LOL Yeah, that's a booming town that totally needs a train!!

LOOOOOVE HOV lanes especially around Charlotte, NC. They can save your sanity! Then again I-77 and I-85 are only 2 lanes through a good portion of the city. And that MSA has about 2 million people! The Capitol Region hasn't even cracked a million yet and it covers a MUCH larger area.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Albany can start about with a Regional Rail network of 2 lines , and a busway then see where that goes before building a Light Rail or Streetcar.... The State / Feds do own most of the tracks except south of Albany on the Western side of the hudson which are owned by CSX. People do seem open to a regional network up their for commuting and tourism proposes... A Busway along Western Ave would be a start...honestly all you need to do is beef up the Bus system.... Streetcars can be added later to help overcrowded bus lines. 90,000 people use Transit in Albany-Troy every day , so demand is there. I know cities and towns have come up with redevelopment plans centered around the Amtrak stop or future Transitway.

Line 1
-Glen Falls
-Ganesvoort
-Saratoga Springs
-Baliston Spa
-East Glenville
-Schenectady
-Rotterdam
-Colonie
-Central Ave - Albany
-Arbor Hill
-Albany-Rensselaer
-Castle-on-Hudson
-Hudson


Line 2
-Amsterdam
-Scotia
-Schenectady
-Rotterdam
-Colonie
-Central Ave - Albany
-Arbor Hill
-North Albany
-Watervliet-Troy
-Cohoes
-Waterford
-Mechanicville
(Seasonal Winter Service to Vermont Ski Resorts)

90,000 people out of 800,000 people use the bus system that is paid for by tax payers. That's the only thing keeping it afloat. That's a tenth of the population! You can't support anything with a tenth of the population using it.

Most of the areas you have listed already have a heavily subsidized bus system. Why double up? Who's going to pay for it?

Seasonal bus servie to the Vermont ski resorts??? Seriously? Take a Yankee Trails trip! Not enough people would ever use it. What on earth would people do with all of their equipment and luggage? There's not enough room on a train for skiing gear.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,856,553 times
Reputation: 4581
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
Decades is LOOOOOOONG time to wait for something to at least support its self let alone make a profit. Especially since it's been around for decades. Imagine if you put your money in the bank and you had to wait your entire lifetime to make a penny. Is it worth it?




Take ALL state funding away? Hell, no! You can't take ANY of it away! Schools are struggling as it is. If this keeps up, we'll have an entire generation of morons and we'll be completely screwed. It won't be the fault of those kids either.

Who's building more highways and lanes? Very rarely are exits built. In my entire lifetime, I can only think of 2 or 3 exits that have been built on the Northway and 1 on I-90 (the free part around Albany). A few exits have been reconfigured due to age, traffic, roads moving, bridge construction, etc.




Who's really going to be paying that $10M back? Can't fill buses so why would trains fill up?



Have you ever taken a train or used a subway system? Aside from massive cities like New York City or Boston, they are rarely faster. Trut me. My other half took Amtrak from Rensselaer to Rochester and it took almost 5 hours! You can drive that in less than 3 hours. The only reason he takes the train periodically is for work.

How often are roads really congested? There's ZERO congestion in the Capitol Region compared to places like Atlanta and Charlotte. Atlanta has 8 lanes going in each direction and I-85 is frequently a parking lot. Not THAT is congestion!




Why would anyone drive halfway to work to park their car, pay for a train/bus ticket, sit out in weather (remember it snows here), and then still have to pay for vehicle registration, license fees, gas, vehicle maintenance, and car insurance? I HATED taking the bus before I had a license. A 20 minute drive would take an hour and a half by bus. And I'd have to take 3 or 4 buses to get there! So not worth it!

Duanesburg? LOL Yeah, that's a booming town that totally needs a train!!

LOOOOOVE HOV lanes especially around Charlotte, NC. They can save your sanity! Then again I-77 and I-85 are only 2 lanes through a good portion of the city. And that MSA has about 2 million people! The Capitol Region hasn't even cracked a million yet and it covers a MUCH larger area.





90,000 people out of 800,000 people use the bus system that is paid for by tax payers. That's the only thing keeping it afloat. That's a tenth of the population! You can't support anything with a tenth of the population using it.

Most of the areas you have listed already have a heavily subsidized bus system. Why double up? Who's going to pay for it?

Seasonal bus servie to the Vermont ski resorts??? Seriously? Take a Yankee Trails trip! Not enough people would ever use it. What on earth would people do with all of their equipment and luggage? There's not enough room on a train for skiing gear.
90,000 out of 100,000 is alot for an Auto region like Albany and its growing up by 2,000 from last year. The Other cities and towns do want a Regional Rail network , it tends to spark economic growth.... Highways and Airplanes are Heavily subsidized and yet no one crys over that , but god forbid we subsidize transit. Not Everybody flys or drives , and shouldn't be forced to drive or fly. Companies these days tend to set up and invest in regions that have good Transit and regional travel , auto cities tend to get bypassed. About 3,000 people a day during the peak of ski season take transit into the resorts , thats a decent amount....they use special trains for Ski season. Vermont plans on expanding and creating a state wide network...same with every other state.
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