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New York residents already pay some of the highest tax taxes in the nation. Why do they have to pay extra to drive on certain roads?
If tolls were removed from the Thruway, your NYS taxes would go up, as the income from out-of-staters would have to be made up somehow. But don't get me started on the Thruway Authority, a dumping ground for the connected Friends and Family patronage network, that's a whole other thread.
I do not support labeling this section of highway as I-88. As an even number less than 90, it really should never be north of I-90. The section of I-90 from Thruway exit 24 to exit B-1 would be better served as an I-x90. However, there are no I-x90s available in NY state; they are all already in use (I-190, I-290....I-990). Perhaps give it a number like I-687 (a killed off proposed highway from the 1950's).
I actually support going mileage based like most other states. Exit numbers on I-90 would start at the PA line and end up in the 400 range at the MA line. I-87 would start in the NYC area and end at around 300 at the Canadian border. The exit numbers would be new, and much higher but would allow for easier calculations en-route, so you always know how far you have to go to your destination exit.
Ultimately I would like to see the Thruway authority abolished and the current exit 24 interchange completely redesigned with I-87 and I-90 intersecting each other in a normal fashion ( I-87 northbound toward Albany would seamlessly become the Northway, but I-87 and I-90 would overlap between current exits 24 and 21A.)
Oh, and with no tollbooths. New York residents already pay some of the highest tax taxes in the nation. Why do they have to pay extra to drive on certain roads?
And a missing exit 3 wouldn't matter if I-87 became mileage based. The Wolf Road exit would become something like exit 158.
I support mileage based exits but not the way you describe. If it were implemented, the border between The Bronx and Westchester would have to be mile 0 heading north and then west to the Pennsylvania state line, as the Thruway is a road that pre-dates the Interstate system and designating it by Interstate would be too arbitrary.
Exit 24 being redesigned to me would be completely unnecessary. It makes sense, if everything that eventually developed had been planned that way to begin with, for I-87 to seamlessly head from NYC to Canada. But the ends do not justify the intense means it would take to destroy the part of Northway that is not I-87 and construct an intersection of pure-eastwest I-90 and pure-northsouth I-87.
In terms of NYSTA, it does need reform. I can't understand how NYS loses money on horse racing and the Thruway. It seems impossible, but they manage to! But the Thruway must remain a toll highway. The fact is the Tappan Zee bridge is their cash cow and the rest of the Thruway is artificially priced lower. It would cost more and even it out more if it were financed instead by taxes instead of the 10 pounds of flesh collected on the Tappan Zee bridge.
That refers only to the Thruway mainline. In Buffalo there is I-190 which is Thruway, in the NYC area there is the Garden State spur and I-287, and in Albany itself there is the Berkshire spur which is briefly not I-90.
When people talk about the Thruway they are talking about 90 and 87. The canal system is also part of the Thruway Authority, but people aren't talking about that when mentioning the Thruway!
Quote:
Originally Posted by COLORADOrk
I do not support labeling this section of highway as I-88. As an even number less than 90, it really should never be north of I-90. The section of I-90 from Thruway exit 24 to exit B-1 would be better served as an I-x90. However, there are no I-x90s available in NY state; they are all already in use (I-190, I-290....I-990). Perhaps give it a number like I-687 (a killed off proposed highway from the 1950's).
I actually support going mileage based like most other states. Exit numbers on I-90 would start at the PA line and end up in the 400 range at the MA line. I-87 would start in the NYC area and end at around 300 at the Canadian border. The exit numbers would be new, and much higher but would allow for easier calculations en-route, so you always know how far you have to go to your destination exit.
Ultimately I would like to see the Thruway authority abolished and the current exit 24 interchange completely redesigned with I-87 and I-90 intersecting each other in a normal fashion ( I-87 northbound toward Albany would seamlessly become the Northway, but I-87 and I-90 would overlap between current exits 24 and 21A.)
Oh, and with no tollbooths. New York residents already pay some of the highest tax taxes in the nation. Why do they have to pay extra to drive on certain roads?
The interstates in NY will have to be renumbered within the next 10 years. This is a federal mandate. PA did it years ago and most other states already have this. It makes MUCH more sense!
Oh how I dream of exit 24 being made over into something normal. Now it's a nightmare. God forbid a tractor trailer pulls out from their rest area on the side and wants to go west. It brings the entire exit to a halt and wreaks havoc. I've seen accidents happen because of this. Who ever designed this mess should be forced to stand in the middle of the road during rush hour and not pee their pants!
Oh and NYers don't have to pay to drive on the Thruway. You can totally avoid the Thruway. I drive from the Finger Lakes to Albany a few times a month. Often times I just take 20. yes, it takes longer, but it's a heck of a lot more scenic and it's free sort of. Why should people who never drive on the Thruway pay for it? My grandmother's don't drive yet they pay taxes. Why make them foot the bill? Lots of other states have toll roads.
When I'm on the Thruway, I see about a 50-50 mix of NYers vs other states and Canada. Why should all other people drive our road for free? Then there's the umpteen tractor trailers on the road. Why should I get stuck paying for all that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter
In terms of NYSTA, it does need reform. I can't understand how NYS loses money on horse racing and the Thruway. It seems impossible, but they manage to! But the Thruway must remain a toll highway. The fact is the Tappan Zee bridge is their cash cow and the rest of the Thruway is artificially priced lower. It would cost more and even it out more if it were financed instead by taxes instead of the 10 pounds of flesh collected on the Tappan Zee bridge.
Clearly you've never drive on the entire Thruway during various times of the year. There's areas around Syracuse and Utica that are repaved every year or every other year. Why? The boatload of snow that falls there destroys the road with the amount of salt used. I'm not saying there isn't wasteful spending because there is in everything in life, but salt and snowplows cost a fortune! There are times when it snows every day for weeks straight around Syracuse. Do you think salt, trucks, maintenance, diesel, drivers, etc are free? The must keep the road open 24/7 and it requires a lot of work. I've been on it with 4 plows in front of me tag teaming to clear and salt the road. I assure you that 15 miles stretch of road cost hundreds if not thousands for just that one pass during that one snowfall.
Clearly you've never drive on the entire Thruway during various times of the year. There's areas around Syracuse and Utica that are repaved every year or every other year. Why? The boatload of snow that falls there destroys the road with the amount of salt used. I'm not saying there isn't wasteful spending because there is in everything in life, but salt and snowplows cost a fortune! There are times when it snows every day for weeks straight around Syracuse. Do you think salt, trucks, maintenance, diesel, drivers, etc are free? The must keep the road open 24/7 and it requires a lot of work. I've been on it with 4 plows in front of me tag teaming to clear and salt the road. I assure you that 15 miles stretch of road cost hundreds if not thousands for just that one pass during that one snowfall.
You're not contradicting what I said at all... if anything you're agreeing with me. And I have traveled on the whole thing from Bronx to Buffalo. I went to college in Rochester and I live in Westchester now so I know the whole thing possibly better than any human who has ever lived.
You're not contradicting what I said at all... if anything you're agreeing with me. And I have traveled on the whole thing from Bronx to Buffalo. I went to college in Rochester and I live in Westchester now so I know the whole thing possibly better than any human who has ever lived.
Awfully full of yourself to say that you "know the whole thing possibly better than any human who has ever lived." Oh and I don't agree with you on many points of what you said on here. For example, I don't think any part of 90 should renamed 88.
Awfully full of yourself to say that you "know the whole thing possibly better than any human who has ever lived." Oh and I don't agree with you on many points of what you said on here. For example, I don't think any part of 90 should renamed 88.
I don't know anybody else who has lived in the Capital Region, Western New York, and downstate and used the Thruway as extensively as I have. It's a passing fancy for most, a fascination for me, not to mention my immigrant grandfather built it. I have substantial experience with the Thruway from multiple perspectives and I'm fascinated by geography/maps/interstates to begin with.
I do not want to be THIS nerd, but I am, so I deal with it... It is indeed a burden to be this nerdy.
I don't know anybody else who has lived in the Capital Region, Western New York, and downstate and used the Thruway as extensively as I have.
Just because you don't know someone who's down all 3 doesn't mean they don't exist. It's doubtful you've met everyone in the Capitol Region or WNY let alone Downstate.
I agree with leaving it as I-90 and just having I-88 end where it currently does. As far as redoing Exit 24, wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to have I-87 run with the Route 7 connector that goes to Troy. Just have it run over to I-787 and change it's name to I-87 South. Turns it into almost a straight shot to the turn south to NYC. I'm sure the commuters to Albany from Troy & Cohoes won't like it with increased traffic it would bring.
Then just rename the 'old' I-87 through Colonie area. Hell, re-name it I-88 and have it run concurrent with the Thruway.
I agree with leaving it as I-90 and just having I-88 end where it currently does. As far as redoing Exit 24, wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to have I-87 run with the Route 7 connector that goes to Troy. Just have it run over to I-787 and change it's name to I-87 South. Turns it into almost a straight shot to the turn south to NYC. I'm sure the commuters to Albany from Troy & Cohoes won't like it with increased traffic it would bring.
Then just rename the 'old' I-87 through Colonie area. Hell, re-name it I-88 and have it run concurrent with the Thruway.
87 is no where near 787. 787 doesn't even go to 87. 87 also starts waaaaay downstate. 787 also has traffic lights on the end of it in Cohoes. 787 is already a nightmare during rush hour. You want to move all the traffic from 87 to 787? You do realize both tend to be parking lots during the hours of 4 - 6 pm every day.
87 is no where near 787. 787 doesn't even go to 87. 87 also starts waaaaay downstate. 787 also has traffic lights on the end of it in Cohoes. 787 is already a nightmare during rush hour. You want to move all the traffic from 87 to 787? You do realize both tend to be parking lots during the hours of 4 - 6 pm every day.
Exit 23 from the Thruway (still 87 at that point) can lead you right on to 787 North and if you take exit 9W (Alternate 7) from 787 to the Northway it doesn't involve any traffic lights. Either way (Exit 23 or Exit 24) you go during rush hour is going to be busy. Personally, I preferred the Exit 23 route when I lived up there because I hated Exit 24.
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