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Old 09-24-2014, 12:04 PM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 912,168 times
Reputation: 1773

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I left out RPI and Union for the local colleges, sorry. Both schools are academically excellent with great hockey programs, but they're not very big.
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Old 09-24-2014, 02:58 PM
 
72,705 posts, read 100,250,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
There are Tech Companies in the area, not sure I would say "quite a few". The related jobs require a certain level of education and specific skill set. I deal with most of them in my work. There's some manufacturing but I don't know that they're hiring and I've seen several companies pull up stakes in the area. Yes, there are several colleges in the area but the area will never be confused with Boston or Philly as a college town. Outside of SUNY Albany (right down the road from my office) the other colleges are small, with enrollments of a couple thousand or less, Siena, St Rose, Sage, HVCC and Skidmore? Besides I'm not sure how these colleges lead to jobs for people moving in to the area? 'Average' annual pay is a tricky figure to throw around when there are enough people in the Health and Technology fields and add in the skew from the government agaencies. There are plenty of people not making that kind of money. Not to say you can't live in the area on a more modest salary, just don't think the higher average salaries are across the board.

On the Saratoga County 'fastest growing counties' thing. From your own links that you post, growth has slowed down in Saratoga, increasing less than 2% since 2010. If you look at the counties around Saratoga - Warren, Washington, Herkimer, Fulton, Montgomery . . . they've all seen a decrease in population. If people are just moving from one county to the next it means nothing for the vitality of the area. If anything the growth in Saratoga previously had more to do with the housing boom of 2000-2007. It's a beautiful area but there's no surging population or economy.
Those highlighted counties aren't even in the metro area and during the last decade, the census underestimated many NY cities and counties, which could still be the case.

A population gain of almost 9.5% can not just be explained by a housing boom, as Saratoga County isn't necessarily affordable in terms of housing and it actually had a growth rate slightly lower than the national percentage, which was 9.71% for that time period. Then, there's this: //www.city-data.com/forum/alban...ment-gain.html You can also view the NYS Labor website that was posted earlier in the thread.

You also forgot about Schenectady CC. No one mentioned Philly or Boston, in which you wouldn't compare this area to those metros that are the 6th and 10th biggest in the country. Here is the enrollment for area colleges/universities. Union College - College

Schenectady County Community College - College

SUNY at Albany - College

The College of Saint Rose - College

Hudson Valley Community College - College

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - College

The Sage Colleges - College

Skidmore College - College

Siena College - College

That isn't including the Albany Law School, the Albany Medical School and other smaller institutions of higher learning or post HS education in the area as well.

This is where I got the average annual pay info and if you click on the city, it shows the pay by industry: Here are the highest-paying markets for employees in all jobs - The Business Journals

These are the 100 highest-paying jobs in Albany, N.Y. - The Business Journals

More info: Rensselaer County, NY

Schenectady County, NY

Albany County, NY

Saratoga County, NY

New York Population Growth Rate County Rank

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-24-2014 at 04:15 PM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 04:46 PM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 912,168 times
Reputation: 1773
^^^ I included those counties because you've posted several times that Saratoga County has experienced this population surge. I believe you need to consider the comparable population decrease in the counties adjacent to Saratoga.

I'm not attributing all of the growth in Saratoga from 2000-2010 to the housing boom but it is significant. Just do a Google Earth view of the area and you can see the development. Question is did the housing spur the growth " build it and they will come", or was the boom in response to a population surge.

The article you posted to support job growth in Saratoga basically attributes all of the new jobs to Global Foundries. Been there several times, very impressive but one employer is not a boom. I'm not seeing anything else on the horizon. The balance of the jobs mentioned were tourism related service jobs. No argument from me that the area is beautiful and great to visit.

In your post to the OP you mentioned there were several colleges. The OP is looking for work. I was merely letting him know that the Capital District is not a "college town" in the sense that the colleges have an actual effect on the economy like they do in a more traditional college town. Many of the students are local from the area.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:53 PM
 
72,705 posts, read 100,250,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
^^^ I included those counties because you've posted several times that Saratoga County has experienced this population surge. I believe you need to consider the comparable population decrease in the counties adjacent to Saratoga.

I'm not attributing all of the growth in Saratoga from 2000-2010 to the housing boom but it is significant. Just do a Google Earth view of the area and you can see the development. Question is did the housing spur the growth " build it and they will come", or was the boom in response to a population surge.

The article you posted to support job growth in Saratoga basically attributes all of the new jobs to Global Foundries. Been there several times, very impressive but one employer is not a boom. I'm not seeing anything else on the horizon. The balance of the jobs mentioned were tourism related service jobs. No argument from me that the area is beautiful and great to visit.

In your post to the OP you mentioned there were several colleges. The OP is looking for work. I was merely letting him know that the Capital District is not a "college town" in the sense that the colleges have an actual effect on the economy like they do in a more traditional college town. Many of the students are local from the area.
I didn't say "boom", I said it was one of the fastest growing counties in the state. Many people move from adjacent counties, but there are adjacent counties that had population growth in recent years as well. Some work in the county and some work in those growing adjacent counties like Albany, Schenectady and Rensselaer as well.

I agree that the area isn't a college town in the way that people refer to the term, but there has been investment on the UAlbany campus in terms of Nanotechnology. My only mention of the colleges and universities was in terms of looking for employment. There are various jobs at colleges/universities that may work for the OP. That's all. These websites may offer some help in that regard: Employment Opportunities - SUNY

NY Colleges

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-24-2014 at 08:45 PM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:46 PM
 
245 posts, read 386,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
On the Saratoga County 'fastest growing counties' thing. From your own links that you post, growth has slowed down in Saratoga, increasing less than 2% since 2010. If you look at the counties around Saratoga - Warren, Washington, Herkimer, Fulton, Montgomery . . . .
Since when is Herkimer "around" Saratoga County? Thats almost comsidered more Syracuse's territory. Saratoga county has exploded. Tons of subdivisions and strip malls popping up everywhere. You don't need numbers to see how much it has grown. A lot of areas once considered rural are now considered suburban - more so than in other counties.
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:05 PM
 
97 posts, read 112,716 times
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We moved from northern NJ (Morris Cnty) to Clifton Park/Halfmoon just north of Albany approximately 8 years ago for the same reasons as you - cost of living, especially home prices. We sold our NJ home at the peak of the real estate bubble after 10 years of ownership and built a new house in a new subdivision that we loved and could have never afforded in NJ.

Unfortunately, the house was about the only thing that we loved about living in the Capital District and we returned to NJ 6 years later feeling fortunate to have gotten out of there and to be able to return to NJ something we probably could not have done had we not sold our NJ home at the peak of the bubble and returned to NJ at the bottom of the maket while the Albany market was pretty much flat during that period and we didn't lose any money on our house up there.

The Capital District is probably a lot smaller than you think it is. It took us a couple of years of living there before we realized just how small it really is. With that comes a lot less job opportunities and a lot less economic prosperity. The economy there is very small, the pay scale is a lot less, and there is very little affluence there which is telling of the economy and job market as a whole.

All three of the cities in the Captital Region (the Tri-Cities), Albany, Troy, and Schenectady are very old, run down, depressing, rust belt cities with very little to offer especially Schenectady and Troy. It's very hard to imagine them ever coming back. The Capital District however is an economic bright spot compared to the rest of Upstate NY which is basically Appalachia. Most people in the NYC area do not realize how bad it really is in upstate NY. Take a ride out west on the NY State Thruway and drive through some of the cities and towns along the way and you will be blown away by how depressed they are.

The weather there is beyond miserable for 6 months out of the year from Nov 1 to May 1 and is constantly gray, cloudy, and gloomy. It was also incredibly windy were we lived but I don't think that is typical of the entire area. The Summer weather, other than the constant wind where we lived, was great with a lot less humidity.

We were very surprised (to say the least) to find the people here in the northern NJ area to be much more friendly and outgoing than the people up there. We met some really great people there but in general the population is cold and not very friendly at all. You will see this talked about elswhere on this board from other transplants and it is definitly true. I think the dismal weather and the depressed econmy have a lot to do with it.

You will also find that there are very few decent restaurants, something that you probably take for granted now. Good restaurants are not that important to us but it was somthing that was very noticable and is also telling of the overall econmy there.

The schools are OK at best but not great. We found the schools we left in NJ to be better than the schools up there and the same to be true of the schools we returned to in NJ which were in two different towns.

Good Luck
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:33 PM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 912,168 times
Reputation: 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsauce711 View Post
Since when is Herkimer "around" Saratoga County? Thats almost comsidered more Syracuse's territory. Saratoga county has exploded. Tons of subdivisions and strip malls popping up everywhere. You don't need numbers to see how much it has grown. A lot of areas once considered rural are now considered suburban - more so than in other counties.
Herkimer was a brain cramp. I was thinking Hamilton, as in counties that "share a border" with Saratoga County. Counties whose populations have actually declined in recent years.

My point was that the population of Saratoga grew because of all the new developments and subdivisions. All the malls at every exit on the Northway go along with it. I said look at Google Earth, you can see all the development. I see the traffic when I'm in Clifton Park. I'm not arguing that point, actually that was my point. People moved to Saratoga County because of the availability of new housing, not because of new jobs.

However in replying to the OP's inquiry about moving to this area from another state, CKH kind of infers that the population growth is somehow related to an economic surge in this area. My point was that much of that population simply relocated from other areas around the Capital district and that the counties around Saratoga have had a decline in population. I think the traffic on the Northway indicates much of the employment for the area is still in Albany. Outside of Global Foundries I can't think of anything major to move in? As for the increase in the employment in Saratoga, CK's article even said outside of Global the other jobs were in service areas such as restaurants. You mention strip malls, new strip malls equal new jobs but in claiming the area has had a higher than average employment growth rate to someone from out of the area looking to possibly relocate you generally don't use retail jobs as a lure.

Not complaining about the area, I have it very good up here, just don't want it being sold as something it's not.
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:39 PM
 
72,705 posts, read 100,250,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
Herkimer was a brain cramp. I was thinking Hamilton, as in counties that "share a border" with Saratoga County. Counties whose populations have actually declined in recent years.

My point was that the population of Saratoga grew because of all the new developments and subdivisions. All the malls at every exit on the Northway go along with it. I said look at Google Earth, you can see all the development. I see the traffic when I'm in Clifton Park. I'm not arguing that point, actually that was my point. People moved to Saratoga County because of the availability of new housing, not because of new jobs.

However in replying to the OP's inquiry about moving to this area from another state, CKH kind of infers that the population growth is somehow related to an economic surge in this area. My point was that much of that population simply relocated from other areas around the Capital district and that the counties around Saratoga have had a decline in population. I think the traffic on the Northway indicates much of the employment for the area is still in Albany. Outside of Global Foundries I can't think of anything major to move in? As for the increase in the employment in Saratoga, CK's article even said outside of Global the other jobs were in service areas such as restaurants. You mention strip malls, new strip malls equal new jobs but in claiming the area has had a higher than average employment growth rate to someone from out of the area looking to possibly relocate you generally don't use retail jobs as a lure.

Not complaining about the area, I have it very good up here, just don't want it being sold as something it's not.
I never mentioned an economic "surge". I just stated a simple fact. Many people that live in Saratoga County work in other counties and commuting patterns is how metro areas are formed. So, you may have someone that lives in Burnt Hills may work at General Electric or a person in Waterford may work at Albany International.

Also, the other counties in the metro grew between 2000-2010, as did Warren and Washington counties. So, the growth couldn't just be from people leaving counties surrounding those counties.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-25-2014 at 01:53 PM..
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Old 09-25-2014, 02:04 PM
 
253 posts, read 442,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
Herkimer was a brain cramp. I was thinking Hamilton, as in counties that "share a border" with Saratoga County. Counties whose populations have actually declined in recent years.

My point was that the population of Saratoga grew because of all the new developments and subdivisions. All the malls at every exit on the Northway go along with it. I said look at Google Earth, you can see all the development. I see the traffic when I'm in Clifton Park. I'm not arguing that point, actually that was my point. People moved to Saratoga County because of the availability of new housing, not because of new jobs.

However in replying to the OP's inquiry about moving to this area from another state, CKH kind of infers that the population growth is somehow related to an economic surge in this area. My point was that much of that population simply relocated from other areas around the Capital district and that the counties around Saratoga have had a decline in population. I think the traffic on the Northway indicates much of the employment for the area is still in Albany. Outside of Global Foundries I can't think of anything major to move in? As for the increase in the employment in Saratoga, CK's article even said outside of Global the other jobs were in service areas such as restaurants. You mention strip malls, new strip malls equal new jobs but in claiming the area has had a higher than average employment growth rate to someone from out of the area looking to possibly relocate you generally don't use retail jobs as a lure.

Not complaining about the area, I have it very good up here, just don't want it being sold as something it's not.
Here's the problem with that theory though:

From 2010 to 2013 Saratoga County's population rose by 4258. In that same time the counties adjacent to Saratoga (Schenectady, Warren, Montegomry, Rensselear, Fulton) lost around 100 residents each. Warren County's population went up slightly actually. Therefore even if the ENTIRE lost population of those counties moved to Saratoga County (unlikely), the numbers don't add up. That's even assuming that this slight population loss was due to people moving and not the people just dying (also unlikely). The numbers I used are US census data found online.

Also, at the end of the day, Saratoga IS booming when you consider that the unemployment figures are low and the number of jobs has risen.
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Old 09-25-2014, 02:39 PM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 912,168 times
Reputation: 1773
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I never mentioned an economic "surge". I just stated a simple fact. Many people that live in Saratoga County work in other counties and commuting patterns is how metro areas are formed. So, you may have someone that lives in Burnt Hills may work at General Electric or a person in Waterford may work at Albany International.

Also, the other counties in the metro grew between 2000-2010, as did Warren and Washington counties. So, the growth couldn't just be from people leaving counties surrounding those counties.
Your simply stated facts when given to someone who is not from tha area can be misinterpreted.

What does saying Saratoga county is one of the fastest growing counties in the state and has higher than average employment growth mean to someone looking to possibly relocate to the area? Seriously, don't just say you're stating facts. Tell me what it means.
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