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Old 09-25-2014, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
Your simply stated facts when given to someone who is not from tha area can be misinterpreted.

What does saying Saratoga county is one of the fastest growing counties in the state and has higher than average employment growth mean to someone looking to possibly relocate to the area? Seriously, don't just say you're stating facts. Tell me what it means.
I already told you and everyone else on here. Really, I just was the messenger to what information was out there and that anyone can find themselves. There aren't any surprises to what has been said. Here's another article: Health care providers are migrating to Saratoga County, New York as fast as the horse racing fans are. - Albany Business Review

and: Saratoga County leads Capital Region in population gains - Albany Business Review

Again, something that took a quick search.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-25-2014 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 09-25-2014, 03:14 PM
 
102 posts, read 147,357 times
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Thumbs up wow! Thank you!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nebloke View Post
We moved from northern NJ (Morris Cnty) to Clifton Park/Halfmoon just north of Albany approximately 8 years ago for the same reasons as you - cost of living, especially home prices. We sold our NJ home at the peak of the real estate bubble after 10 years of ownership and built a new house in a new subdivision that we loved and could have never afforded in NJ.

Unfortunately, the house was about the only thing that we loved about living in the Capital District and we returned to NJ 6 years later feeling fortunate to have gotten out of there and to be able to return to NJ something we probably could not have done had we not sold our NJ home at the peak of the bubble and returned to NJ at the bottom of the maket while the Albany market was pretty much flat during that period and we didn't lose any money on our house up there.

The Capital District is probably a lot smaller than you think it is. It took us a couple of years of living there before we realized just how small it really is. With that comes a lot less job opportunities and a lot less economic prosperity. The economy there is very small, the pay scale is a lot less, and there is very little affluence there which is telling of the economy and job market as a whole.

All three of the cities in the Captital Region (the Tri-Cities), Albany, Troy, and Schenectady are very old, run down, depressing, rust belt cities with very little to offer especially Schenectady and Troy. It's very hard to imagine them ever coming back. The Capital District however is an economic bright spot compared to the rest of Upstate NY which is basically Appalachia. Most people in the NYC area do not realize how bad it really is in upstate NY. Take a ride out west on the NY State Thruway and drive through some of the cities and towns along the way and you will be blown away by how depressed they are.

The weather there is beyond miserable for 6 months out of the year from Nov 1 to May 1 and is constantly gray, cloudy, and gloomy. It was also incredibly windy were we lived but I don't think that is typical of the entire area. The Summer weather, other than the constant wind where we lived, was great with a lot less humidity.

We were very surprised (to say the least) to find the people here in the northern NJ area to be much more friendly and outgoing than the people up there. We met some really great people there but in general the population is cold and not very friendly at all. You will see this talked about elswhere on this board from other transplants and it is definitly true. I think the dismal weather and the depressed econmy have a lot to do with it.

You will also find that there are very few decent restaurants, something that you probably take for granted now. Good restaurants are not that important to us but it was somthing that was very noticable and is also telling of the overall econmy there.

The schools are OK at best but not great. We found the schools we left in NJ to be better than the schools up there and the same to be true of the schools we returned to in NJ which were in two different towns.

Good Luck

WOW!!!

GOD BLESS You!!!

You Sir,

Have just provided tremendous insight into aspects of a move, and contrasting aspects of both areas, which we have, heretofore, not heard.

NJ has everything we want for amenities and quality of life, the main reason we wanted to leave was economic, but the insights you've provided on your move there and back are really valuable and huge.

(Everyone's feedback on here has been valuable and important, but what you've shared has special importance unique to us, which I will explain in a minute..)

Hearing feedback from the area residents is, of course, integral to getting some kind of an area picture..

But since we are actually in New Jersey, hearing feedback like yours from one who is from our North Jersey region and has moved BACK is really a very important thing.

Although I am confident in our abilities, I am not so confident if we moved to the greater Albany area we might be in a position to move back, and/or move back here if we wanted to. (That could change, in terms of our material resources, at some time. But there is also the chance things could stay like this, and from the sounds of what you wrote, unlike you, we may or may not have the ability to move back here if we wanted to..) Naturally, this brings an aspect of reflection into our thoughts about moving that has not really very much come up..The thought 'What if we really don't like it and so on'..I think that was a fleeting idea, but we had been so hard pressed with the high cost of living here and lack of jobs, the idea that Upstate could possibly be worse was not a big, big thought on our radar; at least not yet, actually.

But there's more to your story, and it seems to have to do with, not just a depressed economy, but something about a coldness, and/or maybe some amount of depression in the people. It's quite possible that tough economic times up there have had their effect on the people there as well. Or maybe that was an aspect that was, somewhat, long standing..But what you've shared about the area is VERY helpful, and comprehensive and we thank you for that!

Because we might not have the material resources to move back to New Jersey, (I'm confident, but we've have not had a ton to move state to state and back so easily..), YOUR feedback has truly been a very "wow" piece of information on our radar.

You're a family who KNOWS, and understands, the good our region has to offer.

You were also, understandably, drawn by the attractiveness of areas like Clifton Park and HalfMoon and so on, (so were we, we were up there and liked them too!!)

You, however, have literally been there, done that, you can speak for both experiences.

I see there are a lot of people on these boards advocating, most vociferously , for the good or great aspects of their regions or communities.

I give them props for that, and it's reasonable to think they'd want to. They, after all, have a vested interest, they live there!

And, while their answers have value and meaning for us too, I appreciate your openly providing such important details as an alternative voice!

God BLESS you for that, as you could have spared one family from some real moving regrets, by your kindly sharing about your own experience.

btw, I was just curious, when you came back to NJ, did you move back to Morris County? Or did you re buy in a different, or more affordable, place?

Thanks again, (and to everyone else who answered)



peace

Last edited by hears_where_the_story; 09-25-2014 at 03:28 PM.. Reason: edit
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Old 09-25-2014, 03:46 PM
 
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Is the Albany area the only other area you are looking into? What about employment? What kind of community/neighborhood are you looking for? What about schools and amenities?
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:50 PM
 
97 posts, read 112,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hears_where_the_story View Post
WOW!!!

GOD BLESS You!!!

You Sir,

Have just provided tremendous insight into aspects of a move, and contrasting aspects of both areas, which we have, heretofore, not heard.

NJ has everything we want for amenities and quality of life, the main reason we wanted to leave was economic, but the insights you've provided on your move there and back are really valuable and huge.

(Everyone's feedback on here has been valuable and important, but what you've shared has special importance unique to us, which I will explain in a minute..)

Hearing feedback from the area residents is, of course, integral to getting some kind of an area picture..

But since we are actually in New Jersey, hearing feedback like yours from one who is from our North Jersey region and has moved BACK is really a very important thing.

Although I am confident in our abilities, I am not so confident if we moved to the greater Albany area we might be in a position to move back, and/or move back here if we wanted to. (That could change, in terms of our material resources, at some time. But there is also the chance things could stay like this, and from the sounds of what you wrote, unlike you, we may or may not have the ability to move back here if we wanted to..) Naturally, this brings an aspect of reflection into our thoughts about moving that has not really very much come up..The thought 'What if we really don't like it and so on'..I think that was a fleeting idea, but we had been so hard pressed with the high cost of living here and lack of jobs, the idea that Upstate could possibly be worse was not a big, big thought on our radar; at least not yet, actually.

But there's more to your story, and it seems to have to do with, not just a depressed economy, but something about a coldness, and/or maybe some amount of depression in the people. It's quite possible that tough economic times up there have had their effect on the people there as well. Or maybe that was an aspect that was, somewhat, long standing..But what you've shared about the area is VERY helpful, and comprehensive and we thank you for that!

Because we might not have the material resources to move back to New Jersey, (I'm confident, but we've have not had a ton to move state to state and back so easily..), YOUR feedback has truly been a very "wow" piece of information on our radar.

You're a family who KNOWS, and understands, the good our region has to offer.

You were also, understandably, drawn by the attractiveness of areas like Clifton Park and HalfMoon and so on, (so were we, we were up there and liked them too!!)

You, however, have literally been there, done that, you can speak for both experiences.

I see there are a lot of people on these boards advocating, most vociferously , for the good or great aspects of their regions or communities.

I give them props for that, and it's reasonable to think they'd want to. They, after all, have a vested interest, they live there!

And, while their answers have value and meaning for us too, I appreciate your openly providing such important details as an alternative voice!

God BLESS you for that, as you could have spared one family from some real moving regrets, by your kindly sharing about your own experience.

btw, I was just curious, when you came back to NJ, did you move back to Morris County? Or did you re buy in a different, or more affordable, place?

Thanks again, (and to everyone else who answered)



peace
Since we were able to move back, we have no regrets about moving there but it was scary to realize that we might not have been able to move back had we not been incredibly fortunate in several ways. I was able to go back to work for a company I worked for before I left NJ and my wife was able to take her Albany job to NJ with her. As I mentioned before the timing of the real estate market was also incredibly lucky and we had an unaticipated financial windfall that wasn't monumental but it was big enough, combined with the other factors, to make it possible. If not for all three of these factors, we would have been stuck there and would have regreted the move tremendously. We were incredibly lucky.

We were also very fortunate with the ages of our kids, had factors come together one or two years later for us to move back, it would have been much, much more difficult on them. As it was, our oldest was going into 8th grade and it was very difficult on her. She is doing really well now and now says she likes it better here than in NY mostly because of the people. She also has noticed that people here are much friendlier.

As far as the people go, I think it's also a Yankee, New England type thing as much as anything else. It's right next to New England and New Englanders in general are just not very warm, friendly people especially to outsiders. It also has a lot to do with the miserable weather and the long term econimic decline of the entire region which has been happening for decades. There is also some inferiority complex up there to people from the NYC area. The vast majority of people there don't think anything about it but you will encounter it. Some peole there think that everyone from down here is pushy and overly aggressive. The reality is that people here (in general of course) are much more friendly, outgoing, and down to earth than they are up there. This came as a huge surprise to us.

Clifton Park and Halfmoon are very nice suburbs with lots of families and lots of conveniences. Evertyhing you need is within a very short drive and the traffic is non existent compared to what you have down here. Even the northway is not that bad at all compared to here. It's slow for about 8-10 miles before the twin bridges but after that it opens up and a the rush hour is just that, about an hour. You definately spend a lot less time in your car up there. We also liked being close to the mountains of VT and the ADKs and went there quite a bit which was great.

There are definitely some pros to living there but for us the cons far outweighed the pros. The small economy and lack of career options and opportunities there being the biggest con followed closely by the long, gray dismal winters which start 2 weeks earlier than down here and end 2 weeks later making for an extra month of winter every year.

Being 3 and 4 hours away from our aging parents also became a factor. All four of them are in their late 70's and early 80's and we could see that it was going to be very hard to be that far away from them when they need us the most. It was also hard to be away from siblings and lifelong friends even though we came back pretty regularly.

I totally get the desire to get out of NJ, we were dying to get out of NJ before we left, especially me. My wife however summed it up best just before we moved back when she said "I have a whole new appreciation for NJ". We grew up in Somerset Cnty, lived in Hunterdon Cnty, and Morris county before moving up there and now live in Morris cnty again but in a different town and love it.

If you are really bent on getting out of NJ, I would look into Eastern PA, there are some really nice areas there that look to be very vibrant. Doylestown, PA being one of them.

Last edited by nebloke; 09-25-2014 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:13 AM
 
72,705 posts, read 100,250,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebloke View Post
Since we were able to move back, we have no regrets about moving there but it was scary to realize that we might not have been able to move back had we not been incredibly fortunate in several ways. I was able to go back to work for a company I worked for before I left NJ and my wife was able to take her Albany job to NJ with her. As I mentioned before the timing of the real estate market was also incredibly lucky and we had an unaticipated financial windfall that wasn't monumental but it was big enough, combined with the other factors, to make it possible. If not for all three of these factors, we would have been stuck there and would have regreted the move tremendously. We were incredibly lucky.

We were also very fortunate with the ages of our kids, had factors come together one or two years later for us to move back, it would have been much, much more difficult on them. As it was, our oldest was going into 8th grade and it was very difficult on her. She is doing really well now and now says she likes it better here than in NY mostly because of the people. She also has noticed that people here are much friendlier.

As far as the people go, I think it's also a Yankee, New England type thing as much as anything else. It's right next to New England and New Englanders in general are just not very warm, friendly people especially to outsiders. It also has a lot to do with the miserable weather and the long term econimic decline of the entire region which has been happening for decades. There is also some inferiority complex up there to people from the NYC area. The vast majority of people there don't think anything about it but you will encounter it. Some peole there think that everyone from down here is pushy and overly aggressive. The reality is that people here (in general of course) are much more friendly, outgoing, and down to earth than they are up there. This came as a huge surprise to us.

Clifton Park and Halfmoon are very nice suburbs with lots of families and lots of conveniences. Evertyhing you need is within a very short drive and the traffic is non existent compared to what you have down here. Even the northway is not that bad at all compared to here. It's slow for about 8-10 miles before the twin bridges but after that it opens up and a the rush hour is just that, about an hour. You definately spend a lot less time in your car up there. We also liked being close to the mountains of VT and the ADKs and went there quite a bit which was great.

There are definitely some pros to living there but for us the cons far outweighed the pros. The small economy and lack of career options and opportunities there being the biggest con followed closely by the long, gray dismal winters which start 2 weeks earlier than down here and end 2 weeks later making for an extra month of winter every year.

Being 3 and 4 hours away from our aging parents also became a factor. All four of them are in their late 70's and early 80's and we could see that it was going to be very hard to be that far away from them when they need us the most. It was also hard to be away from siblings and lifelong friends even though we came back pretty regularly.

I totally get the desire to get out of NJ, we were dying to get out of NJ before we left, especially me. My wife however summed it up best just before we moved back when she said "I have a whole new appreciation for NJ". We grew up in Somerset Cnty, lived in Hunterdon Cnty, and Morris county before moving up there and now live in Morris cnty again but in a different town and love it.

If you are really bent on getting out of NJ, I would look into Eastern PA, there are some really nice areas there that look to be very vibrant. Doylestown, PA being one of them.
Wouldn't a place like Doylestown be more expensive than any place in the Capital Region, given that it is still within the Bos-Wash sphere of influence? If the rest of Upstate NY is supposedly like Appalachia(in which most of it isn't), what does that say about the Lehigh Valley and other parts of Eastern PA outside of the Philadelphia area?
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:58 AM
 
102 posts, read 147,357 times
Reputation: 67
Default yes, this makes sense, thank you again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nebloke View Post
Since we were able to move back, we have no regrets about moving there but it was scary to realize that we might not have been able to move back had we not been incredibly fortunate in several ways. I was able to go back to work for a company I worked for before I left NJ and my wife was able to take her Albany job to NJ with her. As I mentioned before the timing of the real estate market was also incredibly lucky and we had an unaticipated financial windfall that wasn't monumental but it was big enough, combined with the other factors, to make it possible. If not for all three of these factors, we would have been stuck there and would have regreted the move tremendously. We were incredibly lucky.

We were also very fortunate with the ages of our kids, had factors come together one or two years later for us to move back, it would have been much, much more difficult on them. As it was, our oldest was going into 8th grade and it was very difficult on her. She is doing really well now and now says she likes it better here than in NY mostly because of the people. She also has noticed that people here are much friendlier.

As far as the people go, I think it's also a Yankee, New England type thing as much as anything else. It's right next to New England and New Englanders in general are just not very warm, friendly people especially to outsiders. It also has a lot to do with the miserable weather and the long term econimic decline of the entire region which has been happening for decades. There is also some inferiority complex up there to people from the NYC area. The vast majority of people there don't think anything about it but you will encounter it. Some peole there think that everyone from down here is pushy and overly aggressive. The reality is that people here (in general of course) are much more friendly, outgoing, and down to earth than they are up there. This came as a huge surprise to us.

Clifton Park and Halfmoon are very nice suburbs with lots of families and lots of conveniences. Evertyhing you need is within a very short drive and the traffic is non existent compared to what you have down here. Even the northway is not that bad at all compared to here. It's slow for about 8-10 miles before the twin bridges but after that it opens up and a the rush hour is just that, about an hour. You definately spend a lot less time in your car up there. We also liked being close to the mountains of VT and the ADKs and went there quite a bit which was great.

There are definitely some pros to living there but for us the cons far outweighed the pros. The small economy and lack of career options and opportunities there being the biggest con followed closely by the long, gray dismal winters which start 2 weeks earlier than down here and end 2 weeks later making for an extra month of winter every year.

Being 3 and 4 hours away from our aging parents also became a factor. All four of them are in their late 70's and early 80's and we could see that it was going to be very hard to be that far away from them when they need us the most. It was also hard to be away from siblings and lifelong friends even though we came back pretty regularly.

I totally get the desire to get out of NJ, we were dying to get out of NJ before we left, especially me. My wife however summed it up best just before we moved back when she said "I have a whole new appreciation for NJ". We grew up in Somerset Cnty, lived in Hunterdon Cnty, and Morris county before moving up there and now live in Morris cnty again but in a different town and love it.

If you are really bent on getting out of NJ, I would look into Eastern PA, there are some really nice areas there that look to be very vibrant. Doylestown, PA being one of them.
Quote:
There are definitely some pros to living there but for us the cons far
outweighed the pros. The small economy and lack of career options and
opportunities there being the biggest con followed closely by the long, gray
dismal winters which start 2 weeks earlier than down here and end 2 weeks later
making for an extra month of winter every year.
Yes, this makes sense, thank you again!

What about the parts of NY State that are a bit further down towards North Jersey, like Kingston, Newburgh, over there?

Do you feel they are as depressed, due to the economy and limited job options as North Jersey has been?

You sound like you guys have been really blessed and fortunate with your job options, and this is great for you and your family, for sure. But not everyone has had this kind of experience with Northern NJ jobs.

I wonder if moving to a part of Orange county further out might help. It' s still, sort of, close to the NY/NYC region, but not right in NJ where the cost of living has been really kind of awful, for those of us who do not have very good experiences with job opportunities.

Have you heard anything about these other areas?

Pennsy is probably off the drawing board for us for reasons we have decided on not Pennsy, though we'd heard its a great place, and surely is lovely there as well.

Thank you again for your recommendations! We're going to need to crunch some numbers to see how these other parts of NY State may, (or may not?), work out..

Last edited by hears_where_the_story; 09-26-2014 at 10:00 AM.. Reason: edit
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Old 09-26-2014, 10:07 AM
 
102 posts, read 147,357 times
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Default hi, thanks for your reply..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Is the Albany area the only other area you are looking into? What about employment? What kind of community/neighborhood are you looking for? What about schools and amenities?

Hello,

Thank you for your reply..

I suppose more due South on the NY State map might work now..
in terms of if we leave NJ..

Not so due South as the boroughs, of course..

'though we'd still need to look into those areas..
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:42 AM
 
97 posts, read 112,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hears_where_the_story View Post
Yes, this makes sense, thank you again!

What about the parts of NY State that are a bit further down towards North Jersey, like Kingston, Newburgh, over there?

Do you feel they are as depressed, due to the economy and limited job options as North Jersey has been?

You sound like you guys have been really blessed and fortunate with your job options, and this is great for you and your family, for sure. But not everyone has had this kind of experience with Northern NJ jobs.

I wonder if moving to a part of Orange county further out might help. It' s still, sort of, close to the NY/NYC region, but not right in NJ where the cost of living has been really kind of awful, for those of us who do not have very good experiences with job opportunities.

Have you heard anything about these other areas?

Pennsy is probably off the drawing board for us for reasons we have decided on not Pennsy, though we'd heard its a great place, and surely is lovely there as well.

Thank you again for your recommendations! We're going to need to crunch some numbers to see how these other parts of NY State may, (or may not?), work out..
I would look into the lower Hudson Valley which is much more the "Tri-State Area" than it is Upstate NY in most people's minds. The economy there is much healtheir too than in the rest of Upstate NY because of the NYC influence.
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:29 PM
 
97 posts, read 112,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Wouldn't a place like Doylestown be more expensive than any place in the Capital Region, given that it is still within the Bos-Wash sphere of influence? If the rest of Upstate NY is supposedly like Appalachia(in which most of it isn't), what does that say about the Lehigh Valley and other parts of Eastern PA outside of the Philadelphia area?
It is more expensive than the Capital Region but the economy, job prospects, and pay scale are all much better there.

Eastern PA, and by that I mean within about 45 minutes to an hour of the NJ border seems to be much, much more economically healthy and vibrant than upstate NY by a long shot. Lot's of retired people from the Tri-State area move just over the border there to get away from the NY/NJ taxes that still want to be near their children and grandchildren and lots of people that work in Central or Western NJ live in eastern PA, you would be a fool not too. We live in north central NJ about 50 minutes due west of NYC and our school Principal and half the teachers at our school live in PA for good reason.

Central and Western PA are another story, they don't call it Pennsytucky for nothing. It's also descibed as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between. That being said, Upstate NY, especially central and western upstate NY is in far worse shape. Like I said before in another post, a drive out west on the NYS Thruway through some of the towns along the way like Amsterdam, Gloversville, Johnstown, Herkimer, Rome, Utica, etc., will blow you away. You could also lump in most other places not along the thruway like Binghampton, Elmira, Watertown, etc., and just about anywhere else in central and western Upsate NY. They are all beyond dismal and depressing and have been dying a not so slow death for decades now. I can't imagine anything ever bringing them back except for possibly an energy boom which by the way is happening in parts of PA. It's absolutely amazing to drive through these places and see what once was but the Erie Canal and Indusutrial Revolution were a long time ago and Upstate NY has been dying ever since.
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebloke View Post
It is more expensive than the Capital Region but the economy, job prospects, and pay scale are all much better there.

Eastern PA, and by that I mean within about 45 minutes to an hour of the NJ border seems to be much, much more economically healthy and vibrant than upstate NY by a long shot. Lot's of retired people from the Tri-State area move just over the border there to get away from the NY/NJ taxes that still want to be near their children and grandchildren and lots of people that work in Central or Western NJ live in eastern PA, you would be a fool not too. We live in north central NJ about 50 minutes due west of NYC and our school Principal and half the teachers at our school live in PA for good reason.

Central and Western PA are another story, they don't call it Pennsytucky for nothing. It's also descibed as Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between. That being said, Upstate NY, especially central and western upstate NY is in far worse shape. Like I said before in another post, a drive out west on the NYS Thruway through some of the towns along the way like Amsterdam, Gloversville, Johnstown, Herkimer, Rome, Utica, etc., will blow you away. You could also lump in most other places not along the thruway like Binghampton, Elmira, Watertown, etc., and just about anywhere else in central and western Upsate NY. They are all beyond dismal and depressing and have been dying a not so slow death for decades now. I can't imagine anything ever bringing them back except for possibly an energy boom which by the way is happening in parts of PA. It's absolutely amazing to drive through these places and see what once was but the Erie Canal and Indusutrial Revolution were a long time ago and Upstate NY has been dying ever since.
Eastern PA has grown in part due to NYC people moving out that way(not all of them are retirees and/or at least middle class either) and actually, the pay given the COL isn't different and may actually not make up the difference. There was a post earlier in the thread with pay info. Same with Capital Region economic info.

I don't think the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton and the Scranton-Wilkes Barre areas are much better than Upstate NY metros, if not worse in many metrics. There are plenty of smaller cities in Eastern PA that have seen better days as well. Pittsburgh has actually seen development and economic gains and only 2 Upstate NY metro areas haven't had job gains recently. You may have to get off of the Thruway/highway to check these areas out. I will think that State College and Harrisburg in Central PA aren't doing too bad.

To the OP, your best bet is to actually come up for a visit, so you can decide for yourself.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 09-26-2014 at 01:44 PM..
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