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From the article: "Opponents to the construction of a six-story, mixed use building at 269 Broadway are upset with the city’s planning board, claiming public input is being stymied in favor of long, repetitive and, what they allege are “inaccurate,” presentations from the developer.
Saying “the deck is stacked against” them, residents said they are frustrated that they sit and wait for hours to speak at meetings and then are either given limited time, or as it happened at the March 24 meeting, told by board Chair Mark Torpey that the hour is too late to hear from the public.
“It’s terribly frustrating,” Myles Gombert said. “It’s anger provoking. Four and a half hours sitting there when you are first on the agenda - and anticipate the planning board finally getting some accurate information in the form of a rebuttal - was terrible.”
Gombert is among the 800 who signed a petition to stop the construction of the building, which has been dubbed “a cruise ship” by a member of the city's design review commission, mainly for its overwhelming scale that dwarfs all of the surrounding structures. The building, which is also opposed by the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation, was narrowly approved by the review commission in January. Now the project, which is being proposed by Prime Group, is moving through the planning board. The building that is being proposed adheres to the T-6 zoning for that area of the city.
Residents who oppose it say the planning board members not only limit their time, but are dismissive, saying opponents “don’t have expertise." Opponents also say Torpey responded to their concerns, such as building an underground parking garage under the water table of a principal aquifer, with sarcasm and cynicism.
“The people who are taking an interest in this and are opposed to it in its current form are highly educated,” said Gombert, who is a doctor. “We are not a fringe group requesting extraordinary things, we are not there yelling and screaming. We are sober adults trying to set the record straight for the working land use committees."
Torpey, whose LinkedIn pages indicates he's the director of research and development at the state Energy Research and Development Authority, could not immediately be reached for comment. Other board members said they couldn't speak directly to this project, but would speak about planning board processes.
Newest planning board member and alternate Bill McTygue suggested moving public comment to the top of the agenda so attendees don’t have to wait for hours to make their comments.
“That seems to make some sense,” McTygue said. “We have to hear from those who are concerned with the project.”
Board member Chuck Marshall, who heads real estate development for Stewart’s Shops, argued against residents' claims that the board is “in the pocket of developers.”
“When you look at the make-up of the board…I’m the only development interest on the board,” Marshall said. “I think Mark does an excellent job of letting the public participate when we are not required to do so. As I understand it, there is not a public hearing requirement. And he’s encouraging it.”
As per the city charter, all city boards must adhere to state Opening Meeting Laws. However, public comment is not required, only when there is a public hearing.
It’s not just those that oppose 269 Broadway that find the planning board to be unfriendly to the public. Alice Smith, one of many who fought the Saratoga Hospital project in her residential neighborhood on Myrtle and Morgan streets, said she and others are “also very disappointed” with the planning board.
“Mr. Torpey appears to work with big developers, disregarding serious concerns from nearby property owners,” Smith, who took part in a lawsuit that stopped the rezoning of her neighborhood, wrote in an email. “Progress and development are good, but it has to be planned carefully, looking at the impact it will have 10 or 20 years later."
She, along with opponents to 269 Broadway, have gone to Mayor Ron Kim to complain about the planning board. Kim said he’s limited because the land use boards must act independently of the mayor’s department.
“It’s a thin line we tread,” Kim said. “I can’t influence the planning board."
As mayor, however, Kim has the sole authority to name members to the land use boards and has already named Mark Pingel and alternate McTygue to the board. He can also unseat them, but said he wouldn't do that without some major ethical breach that would give him cause.
Still, he said residents deserve "to get their thoughts heard" especially he said those who "have significant concerns.”
Is this in reference to some bar fights that have occurred and getting publicity in the local media recently? Is it really THAT bad?
Yes. It’s trending towards crazy. The locals are flipping out.
It’s not just the recent headlines but just overall things going on in the area.
I go there for business on occasion and have noticed a dramatic change since the pandemic.
The real estate agents can stop using “quaint” “quiet” “cute” “charming” etc in their listings.
Yes. It’s trending towards crazy. The locals are flipping out.
It’s not just the recent headlines but just overall things going on in the area.
I go there for business on occasion and have noticed a dramatic change since the pandemic.
The real estate agents can stop using “quaint” “quiet” “cute” “charming” etc in their listings.
Are they flipping out due to there being more attention given to such incidents or is it actually that crazy?
Are they flipping out due to there being more attention given to such incidents or is it actually that crazy?
It’s busy. But I would definitely chaulk up some of it to nimbyism. Some like the development, business and boost to the local economy while others don’t. I guess the recent uptick in crime isn’t helping matters either way.
From the article: "Opponents to the construction of a six-story, mixed use building at 269 Broadway are upset with the city’s planning board, claiming public input is being stymied in favor of long, repetitive and, what they allege are “inaccurate,” presentations from the developer.
Saying “the deck is stacked against” them, residents said they are frustrated that they sit and wait for hours to speak at meetings and then are either given limited time, or as it happened at the March 24 meeting, told by board Chair Mark Torpey that the hour is too late to hear from the public.
“It’s terribly frustrating,” Myles Gombert said. “It’s anger provoking. Four and a half hours sitting there when you are first on the agenda - and anticipate the planning board finally getting some accurate information in the form of a rebuttal - was terrible.”
Gombert is among the 800 who signed a petition to stop the construction of the building, which has been dubbed “a cruise ship” by a member of the city's design review commission, mainly for its overwhelming scale that dwarfs all of the surrounding structures. The building, which is also opposed by the Saratoga Springs Preservation Foundation, was narrowly approved by the review commission in January. Now the project, which is being proposed by Prime Group, is moving through the planning board. The building that is being proposed adheres to the T-6 zoning for that area of the city.
Residents who oppose it say the planning board members not only limit their time, but are dismissive, saying opponents “don’t have expertise." Opponents also say Torpey responded to their concerns, such as building an underground parking garage under the water table of a principal aquifer, with sarcasm and cynicism.
“The people who are taking an interest in this and are opposed to it in its current form are highly educated,” said Gombert, who is a doctor. “We are not a fringe group requesting extraordinary things, we are not there yelling and screaming. We are sober adults trying to set the record straight for the working land use committees."
Torpey, whose LinkedIn pages indicates he's the director of research and development at the state Energy Research and Development Authority, could not immediately be reached for comment. Other board members said they couldn't speak directly to this project, but would speak about planning board processes.
Newest planning board member and alternate Bill McTygue suggested moving public comment to the top of the agenda so attendees don’t have to wait for hours to make their comments.
“That seems to make some sense,” McTygue said. “We have to hear from those who are concerned with the project.”
Board member Chuck Marshall, who heads real estate development for Stewart’s Shops, argued against residents' claims that the board is “in the pocket of developers.”
“When you look at the make-up of the board…I’m the only development interest on the board,” Marshall said. “I think Mark does an excellent job of letting the public participate when we are not required to do so. As I understand it, there is not a public hearing requirement. And he’s encouraging it.”
As per the city charter, all city boards must adhere to state Opening Meeting Laws. However, public comment is not required, only when there is a public hearing.
It’s not just those that oppose 269 Broadway that find the planning board to be unfriendly to the public. Alice Smith, one of many who fought the Saratoga Hospital project in her residential neighborhood on Myrtle and Morgan streets, said she and others are “also very disappointed” with the planning board.
“Mr. Torpey appears to work with big developers, disregarding serious concerns from nearby property owners,” Smith, who took part in a lawsuit that stopped the rezoning of her neighborhood, wrote in an email. “Progress and development are good, but it has to be planned carefully, looking at the impact it will have 10 or 20 years later."
She, along with opponents to 269 Broadway, have gone to Mayor Ron Kim to complain about the planning board. Kim said he’s limited because the land use boards must act independently of the mayor’s department.
“It’s a thin line we tread,” Kim said. “I can’t influence the planning board."
As mayor, however, Kim has the sole authority to name members to the land use boards and has already named Mark Pingel and alternate McTygue to the board. He can also unseat them, but said he wouldn't do that without some major ethical breach that would give him cause.
Still, he said residents deserve "to get their thoughts heard" especially he said those who "have significant concerns.”
From the article: "A neighbor who is also a structural engineer is cautioning the city planning board to address potential problems with drilling and excavation below the city’s groundwater level before approving plans for a six-story building on Broadway.
David Biggs, a consultant who works internationally, said that the proposal for 269 Broadway that would be sandwiched between and tower over Saratoga Central Catholic High School and NBT Bank, will require a so-called secant wall for two floors of underground parking that will penetrate a principal aquifer and possibly disrupt capped springs.
“I’m not anti-development at all,” said Biggs who is among the principal founders of Ryan-Biggs Associates in Clifton Park, and who lives across the street from the Broadway site. “I just want to see that the building does not create problems that we are not going to be able to resolve easily afterwards.”
Biggs described a secant wall as a giant bathtub that would need to be erected below the mixed-use building. That requires drilling into rock and then casting concrete like pilings around the entire perimeter of the building. These pilings interlock, Biggs explained, to seal off the water. The wall is then braced from the inside to hold back the earth and water while the rest of the building is constructed. The dirt and rocks that fall into the bathtub during construction will be carted off, while seeping water will have to be pumped out.
SaraSpa Rod and Gun Club in Greenfield already promised to take the dirt from the excavation. Biggs explained that the water, which currently has an unknown volume, will likely have to exit through the city's sewer system.
“The secant wall is quite deep, it’s close to city street, it’s close to an adjacent building to the north, it’s close to utilities in the street,” Biggs said. “If something goes wrong on this, it could go very wrong. It’s not that it can’t be done, it’s done all the time, it’s just it’s not done in Saratoga.”
Prime Group Holdings in Saratoga Springs is the developer on the project that would feature retail and a civic space on the first floor, offices and a restaurant on the second floor and offices throughout the rest of the building. The underground parking will be accessed from Hamilton Street and will have room for 71 cars.
When asked about concerns of building over an aquifer, which the full environmental assessment form from May 2020 described as the city’s "principal aquifer," Prime Group’s Executive Vice President Gerard Moser said “all of Saratoga is an aquifer.”
“If you look at any building in Saratoga, every building is built on an aquifer,” Moser said. “We are not different than any other building. I personally pulled other paperwork for other buildings like ours and it’s the same paperwork as ours.”
While the initial application mentioned an aquifer, another environmental assessment review was issued in November that noted there would be no impact to the water table and will have no impact on groundwater or an aquifer. This new review, Biggs said, confuses the issue.
“Is it a primary aquifer or is it not?” Biggs said. “The application to the city said it clearly shows the water is there. But now there is no groundwater or no aquifer.”
Moser argued the building will be erected exactly like the one across the street at 268 Broadway where many of the residents who oppose the proposed building live. He also said that he chose the secant wall foundation because “it is the best (choice) within a city.”
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