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What concrete evidence is there for young people having less respect for authority today? In any era, older generations think young people are disrespectful, up to no good, and like terrible music. The only objective indicator I know of -- the crime rate -- will tell you that young people are much less violent than they used to be.
As for police demonstrations, Albuquerque, and Ferguson, I think the APD handled demonstrations better than Ferguson. But that's not saying much. We have a problem with police violence here, as has been well documented. It takes a lot to be investigated by the Department of Justice, and they came out here and found a culture of wrongdoing. But I always reserve judgment on what happened in any particular incident, including the Mike Brown case in Ferguson. What I don't reserve judgment on is the police's handling of the aftermath of the Mike Brown shooting. It was wholly inappropriate for the police to exclude the media from Ferguson, which happened for a while. They even put up a no-fly zone for media helicopters and arrested two reporters for not leaving the scene of protests. That seems to me like a police force that doesn't want any public scrutiny. And just like when the APD's lapel cameras fail to record, I get skeptical as to what the police's intentions are.
There's also a problem with the militarization of our police forces, with police departments getting weapons left over from Iraq and Afghanistan, and from Homeland Security grants. But that's a topic for another thread.
I agree and disagree with you: I too, think the police handled the situation very poorly. I have said that from day 1. I have a little knowledge as to police policies and the media: my husband spent his entire career in the field of media relations, from starting as a reporter and ending his career working for one of our country's top political figures. He started his career on a police beat btw. We also have a few family members who are in law enforcement.
As for concrete evidence regarding young people respecting authority and their elders: I can't believe you would even doubt this: I don't know how old you are, but I am guessing rather young. I will add, our granddaughter who, is among many teachers today that have gotten out of the teaching profession because of the lack of respect teachers get. I was on a bus a few years ago, in St Louis by the way, when an older lady, with a cane got on and two young people (teen agers) did not get up to offer her a seat. Eventually an older man did. I would have except I too was standing and I am certainly not a youngster.
I am certainly not referring to their music for heavens sake. There has never been a generation where older people have liked younger peoples music. But again, that is a different subject. I am talking about down right lack of respect for others. I am not talking about violence necessarily and where are you getting the idea kids, specially in ghetto areas and barrios are less violent than years past?
No, what I meant is sometimes a riot is totally justified. If the was shot when surrendering they should riot, attack the police and attack the police station. I dont think these riots are anything more than a chance to loot which is sad when they have a chance to prove a point and send the police a message.
Its pretty obvious that some of these cops are in it for nothing other than power, ranging from the unjustified killings by police in Burque to this possibly unjustified killing here.
There have always been people on the force for power etc. This isn't new. But most really are working to make our cities, counties and country safer. You can use the same argument about our military. Young people put their life on the line because they like power? I don't think this is generally the case.
And we will have to agree to disagree on the rioting issue. I will stand by what I have said; rioting is never, never right!!!!
The problem is that the collateral damage that always ensues does not help their cause. Innocent people always get hurt either physically, economically or both. They are tearing up their own community and just making things overall worse, IMO. Yes, some are outsiders, but certainly not all of them by a long shot.
I agree that the collateral damage is usually big and it is a shame. There would be no need to riot if they'd stop shooting homeless guys, guys who (supposedly) give up, peoples dogs, beat people with seemingly no consequences. I would almost bet my life had rioting not ensued this incident would've been brushed under the carpet.
I agree and disagree with you: I too, think the police handled the situation very poorly. I have said that from day 1. I have a little knowledge as to police policies and the media: my husband spent his entire career in the field of media relations, from starting as a reporter and ending his career working for one of our country's top political figures. He started his career on a police beat btw. We also have a few family members who are in law enforcement.
As for concrete evidence regarding young people respecting authority and their elders: I can't believe you would even doubt this: I don't know how old you are, but I am guessing rather young. I will add, our granddaughter who, is among many teachers today that have gotten out of the teaching profession because of the lack of respect teachers get. I was on a bus a few years ago, in St Louis by the way, when an older lady, with a cane got on and two young people (teen agers) did not get up to offer her a seat. Eventually an older man did. I would have except I too was standing and I am certainly not a youngster.
I am certainly not referring to their music for heavens sake. There has never been a generation where older people have liked younger peoples music. But again, that is a different subject. I am talking about down right lack of respect for others. I am not talking about violence necessarily and where are you getting the idea kids, specially in ghetto areas and barrios are less violent than years past?
My problem with contentions that young people are more disrespectful than they used to be is that it's impossible to prove or disprove. All you can do is give anecdotal impressions. And I think it's easy for cultural differences or changes to be misinterpreted as disrespect. I also think people idealize the past. But people probably do not give up their seat on the bus as much as they used to. Young people also volunteer more than they used to. My point is that this is an easy area to generalize and offer anecdotal impressions, but I think the truth is that young people are different for better and worse but it's unfair to say as a blanket statement that they're disrespectful.
As to crime, crime (including violent crime) is down by almost 50% from its peak in the '80s and early '90s. It is now at 1960s levels. The biggest drops in crime have been in urban areas and areas with minorities. So "ghetto areas and barrios" are safer than they've been in many, many years. Here's a good study summarizing these trends: https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/upl...ne_raphael.pdf
Most of the Albuquerque protestors were middle class college and high school kids along with some aging hippies and representatives of the Albuquerque Peace and Justice center. They did spraypaint and climb on stuff but they weren't breaking windows, lighting fires, and looting.
First of all; your subject title would suggest you are talking about the entire state of Mo, but in reality this story is about one very small little town, but more than just one problem.
Second you are believing all you are reading via the media and really have no honest details. None of us really do. My guess, you are believe this because you want to think it was strictly the fault of the police.
third: you claim peaceful demonstrations: luting which is the same as robbery or burglary is anything but peaceful.
forth: seeing little kids carrying sign and taking part in demonstrations, to me, is totally uncalled for and creating bigger problems.
fifth and maybe most important: there are bad apples in every profession. Was the cop wrong? I don't know and neither do you? Is he a bad cop? again, right now we don't know and is there more to the story than some jerk stealing cigars, again, we don't know. Hopefully soon. It still is premature to suggest police brutality.
You are calling the guy out for jumping to conclusion or at least suggesting something but I also see that you may be doing the same or at least not objectively looking at what is happening in Ferguson, MO.
Of course looting is bad- everyone knows that - but in the grand scheme of things murdering an unarmed teen should be an outrage - even if it's that he stole a $2.00 cigarillo. But we all know according to Ferguson Chief of Police that Darren Wilson was unaware of the thievery incident, Btw it hasn't been concluded that he stole. But let's assume that he was aware, do police murder people for stealing without trial in The US? If so why are the Wall Street guys who don't look like Mike Brown who stole $billions and almost brought the global economy on its knees walking free with no arrest or jail let alone shot on sight?
It's so easy to see complaints about police brutality from minorities as noise if you're white and shielded by white privilege - which is usually shrugged of by many whites but is always there with employment processes, shopping in the mall or dealing law enforcement or the criminal justice system, It's so easy to see police as faultless if you enjoy privileges that you don't see as a white while you blame citizens not enjoying same privileges and see them as troublemakers.
Am I condoning looting NO! but when people are outraged and they should when an unarmed teen is murdered and his body lay there for 4 hours - the mob mentality takes over some protesters, couple that with the systemic history of racism in that part of the nation - a can of worm opens.
What do you think the police will possibly tell you to justify the murder of unarmed anyone? Why was Geoffrey Dahmer taken alive despite that he killed and ate many of his victims, including the 13 year old who escaped and called the police. Police showed and saw a white cannibalistic murderer who was believable and they let both go back to the apartment, What happened? He {Dahmer}killed the boy. It was the smell of rotten bodies in his freezers that alerted neighbors who called the police and they finally curiously went in and saw horror.
Would Dahmer have gotten away with that 13 old boy if he were black? NO. White privilege! But white privilege shouldn't blind us from seeing how tough others have it in a {I am sorry to say) still our society still struggling with racism.
Why was Movie Theater murderer Holmes taken alive and not shot on sight? Because he's white! If he were black he would have been shot on sight. How many did he murder again? What about the Tucson guy - he was taken alive too. The police is very aggressive when it comes to blacks/browns and that aggression is triggered by racism - believe it or don't. They know it and those who know it know it. There a honest article today on The Atlantic by a white guy who confessed that he trusted police all his life until video of Rodney King and many others he saw made him to rethink.
"When someone else brother's dead body is being carried away it's like carry a piece of trash, until it's your brother." - African Saying.
I'm against brutal police tactics as much as I am against brutal gang violence and thuggery. Odd that no community seems to riot over the latter which as killed far more young people.... (applies to the ABQ area as well as others).
I'm against brutal police tactics as much as I am against brutal gang violence and thuggery. Odd that no community seems to riot over the latter which as killed far more young people.... (applies to the ABQ area as well as others).
My problem with contentions that young people are more disrespectful than they used to be is that it's impossible to prove or disprove. All you can do is give anecdotal impressions. And I think it's easy for cultural differences or changes to be misinterpreted as disrespect. I also think people idealize the past. But people probably do not give up their seat on the bus as much as they used to. Young people also volunteer more than they used to. My point is that this is an easy area to generalize and offer anecdotal impressions, but I think the truth is that young people are different for better and worse but it's unfair to say as a blanket statement that they're disrespectful.
As to crime, crime (including violent crime) is down by almost 50% from its peak in the '80s and early '90s. It is now at 1960s levels. The biggest drops in crime have been in urban areas and areas with minorities. So "ghetto areas and barrios" are safer than they've been in many, many years. Here's a good study summarizing these trends: https://gspp.berkeley.edu/assets/upl...ne_raphael.pdf
yes, the study shows crime is down or certainly was, but even that study is 6 years old (probably 7 by now) as the studies and the results are not always available as soon as taken. But that, I guess is nit picking. Actually crime is up in NYC right now according to a report the other day. It was on TV, so I can't give the source, I am sorry.
I don't know about volunteering more among young people than in the past, but I will continue to hold the view, as many do and don't mean only us seniors, my kids feel the same, that overall respect is missing among young people. Of course all I can give is examples, have you ever seen a study done on respect for others? it would be a pretty hard and yes, very unscientific, but ask around, ask people 40 and older and almost universally, they will all say the same thing. Even our barely early 30s granddaughter who is a nurse Practitioner is amazed at the way some of her young patients talk to their parents.
You are right about giving up the past is not an easy thing: How many times do we hear people saying "I remember when"? Basically what you and I are debating I guess is what is respect? I am more concerned about situation where it is obvious overall respect for elders, authority, whatever seems to be lost; you contend young people are just different: I contend they are not being taught respect. Maybe we are both right and both wrong.
I agree that the collateral damage is usually big and it is a shame. There would be no need to riot if they'd stop shooting homeless guys, guys who (supposedly) give up, peoples dogs, beat people with seemingly no consequences. I would almost bet my life had rioting not ensued this incident would've been brushed under the carpet.
I agree with you there. Had it not been for the riots, the whole incident would probably not have made national headlines.
The cost aside, light needed to be shone on the police brutality issue in Ferguson.
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