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Old 12-13-2018, 10:15 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,480 posts, read 44,647,207 times
Reputation: 30853

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
I'm really disappointed they've chosen so-called "clean diesel" buses for the ART Project. Why not just regular-size electric buses that are known to operate safely in other cities? It seemed that it was the longer, 60-foot articulated buses that were problematic for the technology.
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_bus

One reason:
Quote:
As of 2016 battery buses have less range, higher weight, higher procurement costs. The reduced infrastructure for overhead lines is partially offset by the costs of the infrastructure to recharge the batteries. Battery buses are used almost exclusively in urban areas rather than for long-haul transport. Urban transit features relatively short intervals between charging opportunities. Sufficient recharging can take place within 4 to 5 minutes (250 to 450 kW) usually by induction or catenary.[3]
I also wonder about the dangers of the floor of an electric bus and all those lead-acid batteries underneath...
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
1,663 posts, read 3,210,900 times
Reputation: 1962
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
I'm really disappointed they've chosen so-called "clean diesel" buses for the ART Project. Why not just regular-size electric buses that are known to operate safely in other cities? It seemed that it was the longer, 60-foot articulated buses that were problematic for the technology.
One factor might be a longer lead time for electric from another manufacturer.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Silver Hill, Albuquerque
971 posts, read 1,001,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkey View Post
One factor might be a longer lead time for electric from another manufacturer.
In the Mayor's press conference he mentioned that New Flyer is working on full-electric 60-ft buses, but the technology isn't quite there yet. That seems to have been one of the big problems with BYD - they weren't technologically able to deliver on their promises. The mayor expressed a desire to purchase electric buses sometime in the future.

As for the size of the buses, the entire system was designed and built for a 60-foot articulated vehicle of a certain height. Since the last Mayor dropped millions of dollars on purpose-built stations, switching things up isn't as simple (or affordable) as simply painting some new curb lines and putting up different bus stop signs. The federal funding we've received was also approved based on the existing system design. New Flyer is able to provide buses that meet the project specs because they were one of two firms that submitted bids originally...they can therefore simply dust off their original plans and get building. (From what I've heard, the City Council preferred New Flyer's bus proposal in the first place, but was overruled by the Mayor's office because they thought BYD's more expensive designs would help drum up support for the project with the public).
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Abu Al-Qurq
3,690 posts, read 8,064,288 times
Reputation: 2956
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
I'm really disappointed they've chosen so-called "clean diesel" buses for the ART Project. Why not just regular-size electric buses that are known to operate safely in other cities? It seemed that it was the longer, 60-foot articulated buses that were problematic for the technology.
Regular electric buses, like those found in San Francisco’s Muni, require overhead power lines, which don’t exist on the ART line. They are also ugly, expensive to install, and high maintenance.

Nobody to my knowledge has ever mass produced a bus powered by lead-acid batteries, which are extremely safe considering their ingredients and voltage. Nobody I know worries about the 50 pound battery in the truck next to them, and with good reason.

The BYD buses used an (undersized) lithium battery system.
Lithium batteries merit a healthy concern, unlike lead acid.
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:33 PM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,480 posts, read 44,647,207 times
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The U.S. Just Spent $84M On Electric Buses
Sebastian Blanco Contributor


Quote:
Currently, there are around 300 electric passenger buses operating in the U.S., according to Reuters. The average cost for a big electric bus is around $750,000, a bit more than the $435,000 average cost for diesel. Running costs, though, are much lower for e-buses. Antelope Valley Transit Authority in Los Angeles County told TechCrunch that it saves an average of $46,000 per bus per year for electric versus diesel.
Article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebasti.../#21169bf15e40


Quote:
Currently the market for electric buses in the U.S. is still in its early days. Out of 70,000 buses in city fleets in the U.S. just 300 were electric buses as of 2017, according to the Bloomberg New Energy Finance report.
Article: https://www.greenbiz.com/article/her...uses-us-cities


I was hoping Albuquerque would be one of the cities successfully going for battery powered electric buses. I hope they get there.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Rio Rancho NM
7 posts, read 3,544 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg View Post
...
Nobody to my knowledge has ever mass produced a bus powered by lead-acid batteries, which are extremely safe considering their ingredients and voltage. Nobody I know worries about the 50 pound battery in the truck next to them, and with good reason.

The BYD buses used an (undersized) lithium battery system.
Lithium batteries merit a healthy concern, unlike lead acid.
Lead acid batteries in (gas-powered) trucks are not in a constantly discharging mode. They are not particularly safe when rapidly discharging. If you have ever seen the results of one blowing up, it isn't pretty. And it does happen with automotive batteries.

Their low energy density makes them impractical for a bus.

What is the overall ridership level on buses in ABQ?
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:02 PM
 
Location: .N6 A4
3,852 posts, read 4,803,667 times
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ART stations could transform into event sites

https://www.abqjournal.com/1256889/d...ent-sites.html

They could have mini-raves up and down central, at the ART stations! So many possibilities.
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,292 posts, read 10,228,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
The stop at San Mateo and Central attracted a rough crowd
There's been a rough crowd at that intersection for the past 40 years.
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:59 AM
 
Location: New Mexico U.S.A.
26,480 posts, read 44,647,207 times
Reputation: 30853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApartmentNomad View Post
ART stations could transform into event sites

https://www.abqjournal.com/1256889/d...ent-sites.html

They could have mini-raves up and down central, at the ART stations! So many possibilities.
I'm not sure how well that would turn out. The station at Old Town is chained off to prevent it's use.

I wonder why they went with the bus stop in the middle of the road. Why not test the electric buses on the same paths as the regular buses have been doing for years....
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: .N6 A4
3,852 posts, read 4,803,667 times
Reputation: 3197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poncho_NM View Post
I wonder why they went with the bus stop in the middle of the road. Why not test the electric buses on the same paths as the regular buses have been doing for years....
I presume that making the right-hand lane a dedicated ART lane was thought to be more disruptive.

I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it might be the best way to create a dedicated lane.
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