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Old 04-07-2018, 01:53 AM
 
268 posts, read 228,853 times
Reputation: 556

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
OH, Many come across as they don't even like yet love learning about alternatives. BTW::I do use a few allopathic meds. And MIGHT use maybe one more IF it didn't come with a long list of possible side effects...so which is worse the health issues or the side effects? That's the question. And I'm not going to spend money on a pricey drug to get side effects from it.
You will if it will save your life. And did you know all drugs are not pricey? My thyroid medication is $10 for a 90 day supply. My Gabapentin is about the same. Also, there are no alt treatments for many conditions. Natural products can also come with side effects. As an example, some people get bad cramps from herbal laxatives or find them useless. Alt remedies are not as side-effect free as some websites make them out to be. I am for anyone trying natural remedies if that's what they feel are best or all they can afford. I've tried some myself. But to make them sound safe and effective with nothing to go on but testimonials and people's opinions and claims, well that can be dangerous.

Someone mentioned high BP in another post. It's been known that it can be cured in so very many cases with nothing other than weight loss, exercise and a slightly modified diet.

Many diabetic people are getting off insulin by going on a modified Atkins diet. By restricting their intake of carbs drastically. They also find they lose weight and their BP goes down.

If it wasn't for Big Pharm many of us would not be here.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:09 AM
 
268 posts, read 228,853 times
Reputation: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by noodlecat View Post

So on the one hand we have pharma companies' testamonials and some unpublished studies, and on the other hand we have some published studies along with the collective testamonials of countless people over countless number of years.


There is a lot more involved than testimonials to get a new drug on the market. Drug Co's have to run trials with people willing to be guinea pigs. The people know the drugs are new and untested. It can take years and most drugs prove to be no better than older ones or have too many side effects. Then the Drug Co eats the loss and starts over. You need to read the truth about how drugs get to market and why some are so costly while others are quite cheap.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:16 AM
 
268 posts, read 228,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noodlecat View Post
They don't publish the studies, which is what I stated in my post. Therefore, we the public have only the companies' and the FDA's words (ie their "testamonials") that the drugs work.
You can't call what the Drug Cos are required to report, all the costly trial information for a new drug "testimonials." They have PROOF the drug works, that's it's effective. They also provide any known side-effects. And you know there was no paid professional writer involved who couldn't care less one way or the other like on the websites selling alt remedies and supplements.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:21 AM
 
268 posts, read 228,853 times
Reputation: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
Studies are often skewed to make them look favorable for those paying for them. What about all the drugs that prove harmful after entering the public domain that are later removed from being used due to deadly side effects?

Here's a partial list of some of them: https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org...ourceID=005528

Here's a more complete list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs

Drugs are withdrawn from the marketplace when their harm outweighs their benefits...
Almost always drugs that "harm" are not known until the drug is on the market and millions of people take it. Then the reports start coming in. Then it's realized the drug may be more dangerous than shown in trials where limited numbers of people were involved. And some drugs die in trials because of side effects.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:41 AM
 
9,944 posts, read 7,841,756 times
Reputation: 24909
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatesKat View Post
You can't call what the Drug Cos are required to report, all the costly trial information for a new drug "testimonials." They have PROOF the drug works, that's it's effective. They also provide any known side-effects. And you know there was no paid professional writer involved who couldn't care less one way or the other like on the websites selling alt remedies and supplements.
Of course there are paid professional writers for pharmaceuticals. And very expensive ad campaigns to get you to ask your doctor to prescribe those meds.

As for PROOF that the drugs work, I believe the effectiveness has to be proven just better than a placebo, in most cases. And nothing is 100%, there are always the outliers who get the side effects and bad reactions.

Our family is overly sensitive. We tend to be the ones who have the bad reactions. So we go for the placebo effect first, trying lifestyle and dietary changes, vitamins, homeopathics, essential oils, chiropractic, etc. If those all fail, then yes, we'd try very low dose meds short term.

So far, so good.
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Southern California
29,266 posts, read 16,861,636 times
Reputation: 18910
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatesKat View Post
You will if it will save your life. And did you know all drugs are not pricey? My thyroid medication is $10 for a 90 day supply. My Gabapentin is about the same. Also, there are no alt treatments for many conditions. Natural products can also come with side effects. As an example, some people get bad cramps from herbal laxatives or find them useless. Alt remedies are not as side-effect free as some websites make them out to be. I am for anyone trying natural remedies if that's what they feel are best or all they can afford. I've tried some myself. But to make them sound safe and effective with nothing to go on but testimonials and people's opinions and claims, well that can be dangerous.

Someone mentioned high BP in another post. It's been known that it can be cured in so very many cases with nothing other than weight loss, exercise and a slightly modified diet.

Many diabetic people are getting off insulin by going on a modified Atkins diet. By restricting their intake of carbs drastically. They also find they lose weight and their BP goes down.

If it wasn't for Big Pharm many of us would not be here.
No where do I say, don't take your pharma drugs....and YES they can save lives. As I said I take a few CHEAP meds and the rest supplements and I'm just fine with my choices. And I don't live pain free....believe me. But I choose the pain I guess vs going on strong drugs and their side effects...and I've experienced them.

This is the Alternative Medicine forum.
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:33 AM
 
21,380 posts, read 8,000,720 times
Reputation: 18160
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatesKat View Post
There is a lot more involved than testimonials to get a new drug on the market. Drug Co's have to run trials with people willing to be guinea pigs. The people know the drugs are new and untested. It can take years and most drugs prove to be no better than older ones or have too many side effects. Then the Drug Co eats the loss and starts over. You need to read the truth about how drugs get to market and why some are so costly while others are quite cheap.
Drugs don't have to be better than older ones. They aren't compared to older drugs during clinical trials. They are compared to placebos. They just have to be better than placebo to get to approved, and then have a great marketing plan.

Yes, knowing the TRUTH about clinical trials is important. I agree.

PS: Placebos can also have agents in them. For instant in the Gardesil trials, the *placebo* contained aluminum. This allowed the company to show similar side effects in both groups. Wonder why they didn't use saline .... actually I don't. I'm pretty sure it's clear why they didn't use saline.
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Old 04-10-2018, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,277 posts, read 41,501,637 times
Reputation: 45498
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Drugs don't have to be better than older ones. They aren't compared to older drugs during clinical trials. They are compared to placebos. They just have to be better than placebo to get to approved, and then have a great marketing plan.

Yes, knowing the TRUTH about clinical trials is important. I agree.

PS: Placebos can also have agents in them. For instant in the Gardesil trials, the *placebo* contained aluminum. This allowed the company to show similar side effects in both groups. Wonder why they didn't use saline .... actually I don't. I'm pretty sure it's clear why they didn't use saline.
New drugs are indeed compared to older drugs. In fact, when an acceptable treatment already exists, it is unethical to randomize study participants to a placebo or no treatment at all. Examples would be new drugs for hypertension or diabetes. In a study of a new cancer drug, the new med would be added to a regimen already in use and compared to the same regimen without the new drug or as a replacement for one of the drugs in the standard protocol.

Gardasil was tested against saline placebo.

https://sciblogs.co.nz/diplomaticimm...pared-placebo/

"There was no difference in overall systemic events or the development of new medical conditions between those receiving the vaccine and those receiving the saline solution placebo."

Yes, knowing the TRUTH about clinical trials is important. I agree. Neither of the statements in your post is true.
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,296 posts, read 121,077,218 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
New drugs are indeed compared to older drugs. In fact, when an acceptable treatment already exists, it is unethical to randomize study participants to a placebo or no treatment at all. Examples would be new drugs for hypertension or diabetes. In a study of a new cancer drug, the new med would be added to a regimen already in use and compared to the same regimen without the new drug or as a replacement for one of the drugs in the standard protocol.

Gardasil was tested against saline placebo.

https://sciblogs.co.nz/diplomaticimm...pared-placebo/

"There was no difference in overall systemic events or the development of new medical conditions between those receiving the vaccine and those receiving the saline solution placebo."

Yes, knowing the TRUTH about clinical trials is important. I agree. Neither of the statements in your post is true.
Yes, that's what was done in my sister-in-law's drug study.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic east coast
7,161 posts, read 12,730,115 times
Reputation: 16236
There are lots of drugs that save peoples' lives. No argument there. They truly can be miracle drugs for some very serious and acute conditions.

But then there are other drugs that don't cure or fix a chronic condition at all. For myself, I tend to want to know what's causing a chronic condition -- and is it in my power through lifestyle changes and/or herbs/nutrient supplementation--to end the chronic condition.

To tell me I have to be on a drug for life makes me want to investigate other modalities in search of a fix.

There are bogus supplements--and there are bogus drugs, too. First do no harm. Then, try to cure a chronic condition...
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