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Being open-minded isn't the same as being empty-minded. The fraudsters that have deceived people like you through time still, even in this day and age of actual research and provable knowledge, still dupe. Its a narcissistic pretense that you know better, the conspiracy theory of Big pharma and the old chestnut that "the cure to cancer" (which cancer exactly?) is already there but kept under wraps for money purposes that still, in 2018, holds sway over the witchcrafters.
Honestly, people like you wouldn't know evil if it came up and sold you a snake-oil salve labeled in small print "This doesn't work, has never been tested and will never be double-blinded for sure but specious theories will win over the gullible as always"
Because when fraudulent evil wears a smile, gives you a wink about "Big pharma" and "them", tells you about a miracle cure (that they happen to sell), and never has to do any actual verifiable testing to prove themselves ... well what could go wrong trusting them?
And placebo works up to 40% of the time. Does big pharma let its customers know that? That the alternative of doing nothing can be just as effective as its treatments without all harmful adverse effects, financial burden and time spent in doctors offices?
And placebo works up to 40% of the time. Does big pharma let its customers know that? That the alternative of doing nothing can be just as effective as its treatments without all harmful adverse effects, financial burden and time spent in doctors offices?
Works 40% of the time on what exactly? Certainly not the treatment of cancer which is the topic of this thread.
And placebo works up to 40% of the time. Does big pharma let its customers know that? That the alternative of doing nothing can be just as effective as its treatments without all harmful adverse effects, financial burden and time spent in doctors offices?
Placebos work great for
1. Conditions that are self limited and will get better with no treatment whatsoever.
2. Symptoms that are subjective, like pain and nausea.
Waiting for "tincture of time" - no treatment at all - to work is a hard sell for people who want relief from symptoms. Ask a pediatrician how much success she is having convincing parents that their children do not need antibiotics for viral illnesses.
By the way, placebos have physiologic effects. If your pain gets better when you take a placebo, there is a reason for it. It is indeed "all in your head" and modified by your expectations, but it is due to activation of the same receptors that are hit by opioids.
1. Conditions that are self limited and will get better with no treatment whatsoever.
2. Symptoms that are subjective, like pain and nausea.
Waiting for "tincture of time" - no treatment at all - to work is a hard sell for people who want relief from symptoms. Ask a pediatrician how much success she is having convincing parents that their children do not need antibiotics for viral illnesses.
By the way, placebos have physiologic effects. If your pain gets better when you take a placebo, there is a reason for it. It is indeed "all in your head" and modified by your expectations, but it is due to activation of the same receptors that are hit by opioids.
Patients in every placebo group get better, doesn't matter what the drug, not sure why you are limiting it to one specific class. Actually I do. Because you do not want to address the actual point, so you narrow the topic. Moderator cut: removed rude remark
1. You claim the disease is in the patients heads: So why are the subjects in the study if they do not have the disease/condition being studied?
Surely the doctors running the trials are smart enough to weed out patients who do not meet inclusion / exclusion criteria by using that important diagnostic criteria you love to ignore.
Or are the studies so faulty that up to 40% of pts on placebo were assessed incorrectly?
So yes, they have the disease/condition the trial is testing for. So no, it's not all in the subjects head.
2. And if conditions need no treatment -- which you claim -- Why are there drugs being marketed to pts who DO NOT NEED THEM?
Good GAWD.
Moderator cut: removed rude remarks
Last edited by in_newengland; 07-22-2018 at 03:05 PM..
Patients in every placebo group get better, doesn't matter what the drug, not sure why you are limiting it to one specific class. Actually I do. Because you do not want to address the actual point, so you narrow the topic. It's a deceptive tactic you take with pretty much every post.
1. You claim the disease is in the patients heads: So why are the subjects in the study if they do not have the disease/condition being studied?
Surely the doctors running the trials are smart enough to weed out patients who do not meet inclusion / exclusion criteria by using that important diagnostic criteria you love to ignore.
Or are the studies so faulty that up to 40% of pts on placebo were assessed incorrectly?
So yes, they have the disease/condition the trial is testing for. So no, it's not all in the subjects head.
2. And if conditions need no treatment -- which you claim -- Why are there drugs being marketed to pts who DO NOT NEED THEM?
Perhaps if you had actually read the link I posted you would have a better understanding of what I said. I specifically used one example to show how taking a placebo can relieve pain by activating the same receptors in the brain that opiods do. Yes, it is "all in your head" because the placebo is causing an effect in the brain.
It matters very much what the drug is. If you were to take a group of people who were being treated for an infection and give half an antibiotic and half a sugar pill placebo, you would get a very small number in the placebo group who got better. A few would, because sometimes infections get better even without an antibiotic. Strep throat, for example, is treated with an antibiotic not to make the sore throat better but to prevent rheumatic fever and nephritis related to strep infections. Therefore, new antibiotics are not tested against inert placebos because you do not want to leave half the patients untreated. You test a new antibiotic against an established one.
You completely missed the point I was making, which was about how a placebo can make someone feel better, not the use of a placebo in a study. If patients are in a study they obviously have the condition being studied. There are criteria for entry into it. That has nothing to do with the mechanism of the placebo effect, which is what I was talking about.
Placebos have been used as treatments. Are you not aware of that? They work pretty well for things that are self-limited - they get better without any treatment at all. These days using placebos therapeutically is pretty rare, because there are ethical issues in doctors doing something deceptive. The funny thing though is that placebos can work even when a patient knows he is getting one. Really, read the article.
I am not the one performing mental gymnastics here. Your rant was uncalled for.
There was a segment on Coast to Coast radio last night on the Rife machines by a couple of science type people. I kinda listened to it but was falling asleep, but basically hearing his work was silenced by medical complex.
From what I remember, I believe it was found that the Rife machine had an audio component to it, and some of the reconstructions did not include this audio component. There has been a video released by someone which shows the cancer cells being destroyed as soon as the machine was turned on. You could see them burst.
I know there is controversy about his microscope, but others (some French guy) have reported similar microscopic particles which change form as well as Rife. They just called them different names and did not do as much detailed study as Rife did. He studied those particles extensively.
Okay, if you people are done fighting, looks like we can close this thread. However this is the Alternative Medicine Forum and people have a right to discuss things, even if it sounds wrong or nutty to someone else. Your respect for others' ideas would be appreciated.
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