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^^^^ Just to add, the term "Latin" is not limited to the Spanish-speaking world. The custom of kissing on the cheek is common in French or formerly French islands in the Caribbean. And there are formerly French and Spanish islands where this is done. Same with large extended families.
I agree with you overall though. But yes, not sure what "Afro-Caribbean" is supposed to me. Cultural varies across the Caribbean and there are other mixed islands that are not Spanish-speaking.
While Haiti could technically fall under the umbrella of Afro-Latino since they speak both French and Haitian Creole, "Latin" in the U.S. is understood to be anything that speaks Spanish, as incorrect as that is, and therefore excludes countries like Haiti and Brazil. And Afro-Caribbean, for what I've learned, was typically reserved for non-romance language speaking Caribbean countries and territories.
The interesting thing though is that people are often more open to including Brazil as Latino but then exclude Haiti. Is that hypocrisy or what?
I don't know about this. Even though Dominicans won't cop to being "black," there's still some concept of "blackness" and/or "Caribbeaness" that unites people of African descent in the Caribbean. That's why you see a lot of Haitians and Dominicans on Labor Day even though carnival is technically for "West Indians" (the British ones). I really don't think Dominicans or Puerto Ricans see themselves as having much in common with Central Americans at all (other than a common tongue). At the end of the day, most Dominicans are black people, and I think this is reflected in the social and relationship patterns you see in NYC.
Actually British West Indians are not really a carnival people. Carnival is a more Catholic based tradition. That's why if you notice places that speak French, Spanish, Portuguese or have heavy influences from these cultures have carnival.
This is an interesting question. I was raised in the northeast and also went to school here and these are my observations:
-In student affinity groups (BSAs, SNMA, BLSA, NSBE, etc.), Dominicans are more likely to participate in "black" groups rather than Latino ones, which were dominated by Mexicans and Central Americans.
-More dating between Dominicans and AAs or West Indians than between Dominicans and/or Mexican Central Americans.
-More socialization in general with people of African descent than Mexican and/or Central Americans
-Dominicans, in my experience, routinely drop the "N" bomb in front of black friends (putting aside for a moment the wisdom, or lack thereof, of using the word at all). I think most black people who have a problem with a Guatemalan friend doing the same. Compare Fat Joe (yes, I know he's Rican, but just sayin').
Maybe this is just a function of living in the Northeast. What are your observations?
Actually, I think a more interesting topic of discussion would revolve around whether people think Panamanians have more in common with Guatemalans/Mexicans/Salvadorans than West Indians.
Lol. That would ruffle a few feathers but that would be an interesting thread.
The thing with Panamanians is that most Panamanians in the USA tend to be those of West Indian descent.
In Panama, people of West Indian descent were always a tiny minority. Panamanians identify as Latino, Hispanic. Most Panamanians in the states identify with West Indians, but Panamanians that don't have West Indian backgrounds at all won't identify with West Indians.
Also keep in mind that there are plenty more black Panamanians in Panama that don't have any ancestral ties at all to the British West Indies. These are colonial blacks, and their ancestors were enslaved in what is now Panama throughout the colonial period. They speak Spanish and are Roman Catholic. People seem to forget that Panama has more blacks of colonial origins. Colonial blacks outnumber black Panamanians of West Indian origins. There are also many black Colombians in Panama as well.
Panama was part of Colombia until 1903/1904, and officially until 1921/1922
The largest immigrant group in Panama are Colombians.
Dominicans can act very weird if you ask them about race. One of my coolest female friends is Dominican. If she didn't tell you that, you would never know because she looks like any ordinary light to light, brown-skinned AA girl. All of her friends are either AA or Dominican. She was a member of all the black organizations on campus and even pledged Alpha Kappa Alpha (lol). She and her friends all date or are married to black guys (and they have always primarily "checked" for black guys). And they go to mostly black clubs, parties, happy hours, networking events, etc. and listen to primarily Hip Hop and R&B.
Yet when I asked her if she identifies as "black" whatsoever, she'll never give me a straight answer. She one time said "I won't let them count me as both Black and Hispanic" or some non-sense response like that. They must have some Call of Duty Black Ops type of brainwashing program going on in the DR.
BTW, I know a lot of Dominicans and PRs who have attended schools like Howard and Spelman. So they must identify as "black" on some level, right?
Why does it bother you if a Dominican doesn't identify as black? Just as you choose to identify a certain way, another individual wants their identity respected. Also just because a person doesn't use the label of black to describe themselves that does NOT mean that they are denying African ancestry. If they flat out deny that they have African ancestors when many do then that's ignorant. But most people are ware that they have African ancestry.
People just don't support the racist one drop rule. Perhaps you are rakishly one dropping them which they may feel is a disrespect and slap in the face.
There is BIG TIME denial going on here. Dominicans will be quick to claim Spanish or Taino, but will be reluctant to acknowledge any African ancestry.
While it is true that the Caribbean has more racial mixing than the United States, the same racial dynamic is still present, which is namely that "black" is viewed as inferior and white or anything other than black as superior. Part of the higher use of the designation "mixed race" in Jamaica or Trinidad is partly because there's a higher proportion of genuinely multi-racial people than there is here in the States. But there are also a fair number of people who use that designation because they seek to distance themselves from "blackness" and all of the negative connotations of that label.
Nonsense. The USA is very mixed. It's just a matter of how an individual self identifies
The interesting thing though is that people are often more open to including Brazil as Latino but then exclude Haiti. Is that hypocrisy or what?
I'm sorry, but I am from South Florida and If you see a black person in South Florida they are probably Haitian. I look back and see zero cultural similarities between Haitians and the Spanish/Portuguese former colonies peoples.
Also, very few Haitians speak French. Creole, which they speak, isn't even mutually intelligible with French because of all the African loan words in the language (half of Haitians can't read or write either language). I can totally tell when someone is speaking Creole versus French. Perhaps you have seen the movie Taken 2, where in the beginning there is a man speaking Creole. The friend I was watching the movie with thought the guy was speaking French but I corrected him that it was Creole. Sure enough, the movie confirmed it a few seconds later. It has a very distinct sound.
Zoe Saldana was born in New Jersey and raised in New York, so there is a likelihood that she has been influenced by American racial categorizations and the one-drop-rule. This probably explains her friction, and possibly misunderstanding, with Dominican categorizations.
In fact, there is no maybe, she is much more American than Dominican in her expressions and ways of seeing the world. She can be considered an American of Dominican descent or a Dominican-American, but not simply Dominican, imo.
What you consider or view in your opinion has nothi g to do with facts or how Zoe Saldana feels. She lived in Dominican Republic from the age of 10 to the age of 17. She has Dominican citizenship so yes she is Dominican, and she is also Puerto Rican.
Identity is a fluid thing. It all comes down to how the individual identifies
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