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Old 09-07-2012, 09:38 AM
 
4,843 posts, read 6,099,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
That's why Texas should be independent, and they are starting to agree with me: Secession Favored By Half Of Texas Republicans: Poll
That's funny on so many levels, 1) it's just republicans, 2) it's half of republicans 4) When you add Dem, Independence things will be a lot different 5) when you add people not into politics things will be a lot different.

Quote:
There are "megaregions" in England too, but they are happy together because they share the same (English) culture, we do not.
????

Are trying to say megaregions don't have a share culture? because the share culture of part of the ideals for pointing them out. Or are you saying we don't have a share culture as in the northwest and the south? because locally no nationally yes. So either or you wrong on Both


Quote:
It can't be ethnocentric if you hate a country with multiple ethnic groups. That, again, has to do with this:
Ethnocentric refer to culture as long as you view them as a different culture and bash that culture, your ethnocentric.

Ethnocentrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ethnocentrism | Define Ethnocentrism at Dictionary.com

Ethnocentric - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


The error is hasty generalizing
http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...alization.html
Quote:
And fifty years ago this was going on in America: Great Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Great Society and the new deal are liberal ideas, that's 20 century progressivism again the country start in 1776. Conservatives today hate The Great Society and the new deal.

Quote:
As opposed to "liberals" who give us this today: Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bill is liberal, part of the Welfare reform was playing politics. From the link it said.

"President Clinton found the legislation more conservative than he would have preferred; however, having vetoed two earlier welfare proposals from the Republican-majority Congress, it was considered a political risk to veto a third bill during a campaign season with welfare reform as a central theme"

 
Old 09-08-2012, 01:00 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,976,162 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
That's funny on so many levels, 1) it's just republicans, 2) it's half of republicans 4) When you add Dem, Independence things will be a lot different 5) when you add people not into politics things will be a lot different.
About 25% if all Texans want secession. Like I said, ending the Empire is unpopular now with Imperial subjects, just as Zionism was unpopular with Jews in the 1890s. Things changed and the opinions changed.



Quote:
Are trying to say megaregions don't have a share culture? because the share culture of part of the ideals for pointing them out. Or are you saying we don't have a share culture as in the northwest and the south? because locally no nationally yes. So either or you wrong on Both
The area of Tennessee and Georgia share the same history, culture and demographics, hence they are a nation. Separate, they are still the same. There is no way anyone with a brain can sit there and tell me the difference between Washington State and Tennessee is no greater than the difference between Tennessee and South Carolina.

Quote:
Ethnocentric refer to culture as long as you view them as a different culture and bash that culture, your ethnocentric.

Ethnocentrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ethnocentrism | Define Ethnocentrism at Dictionary.com

Ethnocentric - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


The error is hasty generalizing
Fallacy: Hasty Generalization

So you admit then that my North West/Mid Atlantic culture is different than Southern Culture? It is. I am a Cascadian, they are Dixian. We have very little in common and I don't care for their culture and they have plenty to say about us in Seattle. Best thing for us all is to pursue our own destinies as free people, no longer forced to share the same Federal government.

Quote:
The Great Society and the new deal are liberal ideas, that's 20 century progressivism again the country start in 1776. Conservatives today hate The Great Society and the new deal.
Yes, which is why the "right to work states" are in the conservative south...EVERY STINKING SOUTHERN STATE IS A ANTIP-UNION "RIGHT TO WORK (for less) STATE" So, where were the "liberals" and the "moderates" there? All out taking a pee? If there was any progressive movement worth anything in the South at least ONE of those states would have avoided right to work.

Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Never in a million years would that fly in here.

Quote:
Bill is liberal, part of the Welfare reform was playing politics. From the link it said.

"President Clinton found the legislation more conservative than he would have preferred; however, having vetoed two earlier welfare proposals from the Republican-majority Congress, it was considered a political risk to veto a third bill during a campaign season with welfare reform as a central theme"
In other words, he was a right-wing hack who wouldn't stand his ground against the GOP. Nice work, Southern chump! Like I said, trust no one to the right of Kucinich or Ralph Nader
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,788,575 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
I know more about politics then most. Again, if Bernie Sanders ran in Georgia, would he win? Even if he ran in a "liberal" district, would he win being openly socialist? (Actually, Social-Democrat would be a more fitting title) Let me spell it out to you: Vermont is too the left of most liberals in the South, as is Cascadia.



In other words, there are no liberals in the South. How many southern democrats really are fighting for gay marriage? How about socialized medicine? (Not that scam Obamacare) Few.


Let me spell this out to you, since you don't understand world politics: a moderate in the USA is a right-wing extremist anywhere else in the Western World. Obama is far to the right of your average politician in Denmark, Sweden, Germany etc. We in the PNW are closer to Green politics or Social-Democracy (like the New Democratic Party in Canada) then we are to American "liberalism".
There are not many places in the U.S. where an openly avowed "Socialist" would win.The South is not alone in that regard..
Why all this angst to make America something its not?Our Government is not Socialist.Not saying things are perfect but they are not perfect in Socialist countries.What do you think is going on in Spain and Greece?
Those countries are moving to more of a government like ours because they cant sustain that style of government.
Germany went through massive changes in the 90's before the other European countries did today.There was so much resistance.Spain,Greece,Italy and even France are finding it increasingly difficult.Those countries are going through much more of an upheaval than the U.S.
Ive been all over the world and there are definitely things the U.S. could learn from other countries but thats a two way street.

By the way.Isnt the PNW the are with the most hate groups(Neo-Nazi types)?
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,788,575 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
Those regions have no shared history or shared ancestry or language the way Cascadia, the South and New England do. We are running out of oil and do you know what your wonderful federal government's plan is? Neither do they. What about National debt? Same deal.

20, 50 years tops. Cities need rural areas to survive, hence the idea that cities can sustain themselves is idiotic. Not to mention yes, secession is the minority view...but so was zionism when Theodor Herzi first proposed it in the late 1800s. And I'm not the first person to propose Cascadia as an independent state...that was Thomas Jefferson:

-Jefferson on Fort Astoria, a fort established by Americans in what would be the state of Oregon

Cascadia (independence movement) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for being "proud" of being a part of the greatest Empire in history, that massacred the natives, put Pinochet on the throne and props up dictators all over the world, is home to (and controlled by) corporations like Monsanto, is the world's biggest polluter with the most undemocratic democracy on Earth and grabs people at random throwing them into Gitmo, approves of torture of prisoners, has the world's largest prison population, worst schools in the developed world etc ect...

Well, you get the picture. To hell with AmeriKKKa. It's days are done and it hasn't been what it stood for about fifty years. Time to downsize and deal with ourselves in a reasonable matter: as free, independent nations that will rise out of the ashes of the USSA to the applause of the world (they all hate America, if you haven't noticed)
Im not trying to disagree with you.America has done some crappy stuff.But much of it was done for its own interest,People hate hearing that but self preservation is a human trait.America is by far not the worst.Especially when even to this day European Powers have a presence firmly entrenched around the world from a colonial past.
You must be young because when the Soviet Union was around,this so called "Amerikkka" was the world saving grace.It outlasted the Soviet Union because the model is better.

Socialiogy is good for people if they cannot provide for them selves on different levels.Capitalism means you work or die,Long as there is work and reasonable pay for that work,then why do you need Socialism?
 
Old 09-08-2012, 01:39 PM
 
295 posts, read 1,154,898 times
Reputation: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
There are not many places in the U.S. where an openly avowed "Socialist" would win.The South is not alone in that regard..
Why all this angst to make America something its not?Our Government is not Socialist.Not saying things are perfect but they are not perfect in Socialist countries.What do you think is going on in Spain and Greece?
Those countries are moving to more of a government like ours because they cant sustain that style of government.
Germany went through massive changes in the 90's before the other European countries did today.There was so much resistance.Spain,Greece,Italy and even France are finding it increasingly difficult.Those countries are going through much more of an upheaval than the U.S.
Ive been all over the world and there are definitely things the U.S. could learn from other countries but thats a two way street.

By the way.Isnt the PNW the are with the most hate groups(Neo-Nazi types)?
Any system is perfect, even democracy has its faults. But it's a fact that socialism is a much fairer system than capitalism.

The current problems in southern Europe are not caused by socialism, but capitalist and neocon policies.

Some countries in Europe now are moving to a government more like the American one, but with the opposition of most of the population, creating many conflicts in these countries. Spain is on the verge of coup d'etat because the government is implementing conservative policies.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 01:44 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,976,162 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
There are not many places in the U.S. where an openly avowed "Socialist" would win.The South is not alone in that regard..
But he would win here in a heartbeat, hence the need to go at it alone and lose the dead weight. I would also throw in that Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum would never be elected dog catcher in either Washington, Oregon, or Northern California.

Quote:
Why all this angst to make America something its not?Our Government is not Socialist.Not saying things are perfect but they are not perfect in Socialist countries.What do you think is going on in Spain and Greece?
Spain and Greece has problems of tax evasion and corruption. What do you think is going on in Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Canada...basically, rapid growth and a much higher standard of living than in the USSA.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ec...Democracy.html

Quote:
Those countries are moving to more of a government like ours because they cant sustain that style of government.
No, they just can't sustain tax fraud.

Quote:
Germany went through massive changes in the 90's before the other European countries did today.There was so much resistance.Spain,Greece,Italy and even France are finding it increasingly difficult.Those countries are going through much more of an upheaval than the U.S.
Germany still has a much larger government than the US. Brazil followed the American model for years and was a mug pit, they started acting more like Scandinavia and now they're doing well for themselves, despite the global shut-down.

Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fome Zero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Ive been all over the world and there are definitely things the U.S. could learn from other countries but thats a two way street.
The only thing anyone could learn from the USSA is how to win a pie-eating contest:

Study: America Is Officially the Fattest Developed Country in the World | Healthland | TIME.com

Quote:
By the way.Isnt the PNW the are with the most hate groups(Neo-Nazi types)?
No, that was twenty years ago and most people in the PNW hate those freaks. They came here because of the Aryan Nations, who were just one group, and most of them left. They are outnumbered by socialists and anarchists at least five to one.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 01:57 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,976,162 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Im not trying to disagree with you.America has done some crappy stuff.But much of it was done for its own interest,People hate hearing that but self preservation is a human trait.America is by far not the worst.Especially when even to this day European Powers have a presence firmly entrenched around the world from a colonial past.
You must be young because when the Soviet Union was around,this so called "Amerikkka" was the world saving grace.It outlasted the Soviet Union because the model is better.
In the name of defending the world from the evils of the Soviet Union, the government of the USSA propped up dictators far worse than anything in the USSR...Pinochet, Rafael Trujillo, the Contras, and even the Taliban were aided in the war to safe "the free world".

The USSA outlasted the USSR because they had more money and realized manipulating people is a better way of keeping them in line than oppressing them.

Quote:
Socialiogy is good for people if they cannot provide for them selves on different levels.Capitalism means you work or die,Long as there is work and reasonable pay for that work,then why do you need Socialism?
Is there "Reasonable pay" in America anymore?

Why are wages still stagnant? Blame the labor market - The Washington Post



Socialism and communism are two different things...Denmark is socialist, North Korea is communists.

Communism: work AND starve

Laissez faire economics: Work and you may not starve

Social-Democracy: we work, reward the work and tax and share so no one starves.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 05:53 PM
 
72,981 posts, read 62,569,376 times
Reputation: 21878
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
In the name of defending the world from the evils of the Soviet Union, the government of the USSA propped up dictators far worse than anything in the USSR...Pinochet, Rafael Trujillo, the Contras, and even the Taliban were aided in the war to safe "the free world".

The USSA outlasted the USSR because they had more money and realized manipulating people is a better way of keeping them in line than oppressing them.



Is there "Reasonable pay" in America anymore?

Why are wages still stagnant? Blame the labor market - The Washington Post



Socialism and communism are two different things...Denmark is socialist, North Korea is communists.

Communism: work AND starve

Laissez faire economics: Work and you may not starve

Social-Democracy: we work, reward the work and tax and share so no one starves.

Or work and you still might starve.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 06:08 PM
 
72,981 posts, read 62,569,376 times
Reputation: 21878
Quote:
In the name of defending the world from the evils of the Soviet Union, the government of the USSA propped up dictators far worse than anything in the USSR...Pinochet, Rafael Trujillo, the Contras, and even the Taliban were aided in the war to safe "the free world".
Pinochet only got in because of Nixon. He sent a covert operation into Chile to stage a coup against Salvador Allende. Salvador Allende, a communist he was, was elected democratically. The USA government didn't like that. When someone didn't act in American interests, they were taken down. This is why no one went after Papa Doc and Baby Doc, the two despots who bankrupted Haiti. They are the reason Haiti was in such bad shape in the 1980s, and part of why it's like that now. When Jean-Bertrand Aristide became President of Haiti, he was elected by the people, and acted on behalf of the people. Because the USA government didn't like this, the same thing that happened in Chile happened in Haiti. A coup aided by the USA government. Irony of it is that while the USA was ready with open arms to help Cuban refugees(not saying they shouldn't, as I agree with that policy), the USA had a policy to turn away Haitian refugees.
 
Old 09-09-2012, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,788,575 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by chascarrillo View Post
Any system is perfect, even democracy has its faults. But it's a fact that socialism is a much fairer system than capitalism.

The current problems in southern Europe are not caused by socialism, but capitalist and neocon policies.

Some countries in Europe now are moving to a government more like the American one, but with the opposition of most of the population, creating many conflicts in these countries. Spain is on the verge of coup d'etat because the government is implementing conservative policies.
Its a fact?Really?How so?What is more fairer than you having more authority in your own destiny?
We are looking from the angles in which we identify with.I dont see the problems in Spain as being the result of Conservative policies.I see it as a result of letting labor unions,unreasonable and unsustainable polcies regarding things like entitlements and pensions as being the cause of why conservative policies now are nescessary to prevent collapse.

Of course the population is mad.They have been living generations like this and now these massive changes.It may or may not make sense but people dont accept change well ,even if it is whats best..
This is true in the U.S. as we accept or fight things like Obamacare
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