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Old 08-31-2012, 04:23 PM
 
Location: A Very Naughtytown In Northwestern Montanifornia U.S.A.
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The second generation "manifest destiny". Expand the United States of America by taking by force or other methods, the entire North American continent and change our name to "The United States of North America"

 
Old 08-31-2012, 06:07 PM
 
Location: WA
1,448 posts, read 1,929,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
If we could just ditch the South I think the rest of America would be fine. It really is the land of the insane bible thumper.
Yet even despite the political preferences of the southern states, we still manage to find leftist psycopaths in our highest positions of "power."

On that note, you should keep in mind that the "land of the insane bible thumper" didn't manage to thwart the election of President Obama, and the South (with the exception of Florida) is by and large not an electoral entity that Obama has to appeal to in this election-cycle. The western coastal states and northeastern states are far more powerful than the South and are by no means prone to being won by hyper-religious lunatics.

Point being? The South is nothing for any American (yes, including the left-oriented ones) to be afraid of. If you really wanted to find some way to reconcile the many political differences we can observe from state to state, you would simply advocate more governmental autonomy for all of the states, not their exclusion from the country they belong to.

So political differences not withstanding, I hope you can one day abandon this pretentious need to "other" your fellow Americans--hell, as much as I'd love to see New England and the upper-Atlantic states stop infecting the country with their Euro-wannabe politicians, I would never go so far as to advocate the collective seccession of those states. That sort of arrogance is repugnant to me.
 
Old 08-31-2012, 06:07 PM
 
72,847 posts, read 62,291,791 times
Reputation: 21797
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLookPhoto View Post
The second generation "manifest destiny". Expand the United States of America by taking by force or other methods, the entire North American continent and change our name to "The United States of North America"
NO!! NO!! NO!! Million times NO!! I like Canada as Canada and the USA as the USA. Canada is its own nation and should respected as much. Same thing for Mexico and the rest of North America.
 
Old 08-31-2012, 06:16 PM
 
72,847 posts, read 62,291,791 times
Reputation: 21797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montguy View Post
Yet even despite the political preferences of the southern states, we still manage to find leftist psycopaths in our highest positions of "power."

On that note, you should keep in mind that the "land of the insane bible thumper" didn't manage to thwart the election of President Obama, and the South (with the exception of Florida) is by and large not an electoral entity that Obama has to appeal to in this election-cycle. The western coastal states and northeastern states are far more powerful than the South and are by no means prone to being won by hyper-religious lunatics.

Quote:
Point being? The South is nothing for any American (yes, including the left-oriented ones) to be afraid of. If you really wanted to find some way to reconcile the many political differences we can observe from state to state, you would simply advocate more governmental autonomy for all of the states, not their exclusion from the country they belong to.
So political differences not withstanding, I hope you can one day abandon this pretentious need to "other" your fellow Americans--hell, as much as I'd love to see New England and the upper-Atlantic states stop infecting the country with their Euro-wannabe politicians, I would never go so far as to advocate the collective seccession of those states. That sort of arrogance is repugnant to me.
I think about the Civil War and the issues behind it. I am kind of distrustful about it. Maybe it's because I'm the descendant of slaves. If the South did have more political autonomy, there would be quite a schism, on racial lines. The South has the biggest political/racial divide in the USA.
 
Old 08-31-2012, 06:20 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,409,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLookPhoto View Post
The second generation "manifest destiny". Expand the United States of America by taking by force or other methods, the entire North American continent and change our name to "The United States of North America"
That idiotic map sure makes some quantum leap assumptions. Negotiations are out of the question due to the plethora of natural resources within those territories you presume to include in both Cascadia and Northwestern Union. What is it you would bring to the table to convince us up here in the frigid north to form an alliance and forsake our heritage or viewed destiny?

Gee whiz; you haven't been able to take anything by force since before WWII. Do we need to list the failures to completely occupy and subdue any foreign nation that you've attempted to bring democracy to as an example.

You think all those Canadians, in spite of your belief they're not armed individuals, would simply roll over and let you occupy their western coast and prairie provinces because ....... they would benefit somehow from being invaded? As a Canadian I'm particularly thrilled with your maintenance of a stars and stripes to depict a flag of that Union area.

Just sayin.
 
Old 08-31-2012, 06:49 PM
 
Location: WA
1,448 posts, read 1,929,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I think about the Civil War and the issues behind it. I am kind of distrustful about it. Maybe it's because I'm the descendant of slaves. If the South did have more political autonomy, there would be quite a schism, on racial lines. The South has the biggest political/racial divide in the USA.
Not being a Southerner, I really have no experience with any residual racial divisions that may still be present there, but I don't doubt that they remain to some degree; however, I don't believe for a minute that the Jim Crow era would revisit the South if the states were to become less subordinate to federal commandeering, and the notion that it's even a remote possibility is fear-mongering at its most insane.

The South has definitely had its share of historical disgraces, but I fail to understand how that could suggest that any state within that region is incapable of governing itself efficiently, at least in some policy areas. If racial divisions are still present there in a significant capacity, well, I don't think that any amount of centralization (or decentralization) can change that.
 
Old 09-01-2012, 12:39 AM
 
4,832 posts, read 6,068,317 times
Reputation: 4630
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk View Post
HELL YES!

Sorry, but we in the North West are tired of being ruled over by a bunch of redneck senators and congressmen from Alabama, Mississippi etc. At the same token, they don't like us much either. America is NOT A COUNTRY in the sense that we are one people. Compare someone in Washington state to someone from Alabama: they have a different English dialect, different religion (Bible Belt vs Unchurched Belt) different sports (NASCAR vs Sounders FC) different food, different politics etc etc. We are a distinctly different people.

I mean, what folks seem to forget is that if and when America breaks up...IT WILL STILL BE HERE! All secession means is that we will no longer be forced to share a central government with those whom do not understand or agree with our values. We will still be friendly neighbors, trading partners, military allies etc. Only difference is Washington, Oregon and Northern California along with maybe British Columbia will make our own rules and no longer will Redneckistan be forced to share our government.

It will take something big for it to happen, but sooner or later, America will go the way of the USSR and peacefully break apart. Let the South Run itself instead of pushing its war on drugs, religious fanaticism, xenophobia and warmongering on the NorthWest. At the same time, we wont push our secularism, socially liberal and green/hippie ideas on them.

Let's face it: we can't get along. And what do couples do when they can't get along? They get a divorce. With all the wealth and resources in the North West we'll be way better of than many countries, like Japan and Tiawan, both of which are smaller than Cascadia will be.

And to all those going on about how Americans will never let that happen, I present the song so many Soviet school children learned young:






Just as the Soviet people wised up and realized it was over and went their separate ways, the American people will someday do the same. What, do you REALLY THINK the US will last forever? Romans thought the same thing.


You realize there are liberals in the south right especially in major metros? Folks who want secession are radical, I can tell you right now before the Georgia gov wants to join a "CSA" the state gov would have to answer to the 32% of blacks, or the general 40% minority pop it has, plus the white liberal and moderates who disagree with it. You seem to have the ideal that states are all red or all blue that not how it works. During the national election states are winner takes all so if a state is 60% red and 40% it would become a red won state that doesn't change it's 40% blue. Besides that your post is overly stereotyping. Honestly I don't know many people who like NASCAR. And how you know there aren't many people down here who share your interest? Because your comment is over the top generalizing and insulting.

On the topic session though true nothing last forever but I believe if the US does break it will be on a Issue that we are yet to know about. And how the US will break will be an even bigger mystery. As I said states are not monolithic so it has to be something the overwhelming majority of a state agree on. With the opposing of another state in which the overwhelming feels the opposite.

European and Asian countries have larger histories, that historically were different nations in which had long histories that join together who had different languages and ethnic make ups. A lot of the time large empire expanded over smaller nations that later break apart because of such reasons.

There's nothing in the US that compared to Kazakhstan breaking from the USSR. Kazakh Khanate was a nation lasting centuries before the Russian empire came. Other nations had prior history as well, like Georgia, Armenia and etc also. The US history is too young and diverse with in itself to break apart like that. For instance Cali was once part of Mexico and Spain but why would Cali separate from NY for such reasons? Most people have no connection to that history like that Cali boom because people coming from the East and later people from all over. The US is nothing like the USSR. Texas was it's own country for just 10 years, and it's ironic because it broke from mexico because it was too American. Even with in that most Texans roots today don't go back that far to want to recreate the republic of Texas. Talking about the USSR your talking about people who had separate nationally loyalties to ancestry in same spot for centuries. The US is not in that contexts.
 
Old 09-01-2012, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,879,809 times
Reputation: 5888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montguy View Post
Yet even despite the political preferences of the southern states, we still manage to find leftist psycopaths in our highest positions of "power."

On that note, you should keep in mind that the "land of the insane bible thumper" didn't manage to thwart the election of President Obama, and the South (with the exception of Florida) is by and large not an electoral entity that Obama has to appeal to in this election-cycle. The western coastal states and northeastern states are far more powerful than the South and are by no means prone to being won by hyper-religious lunatics.

Point being? The South is nothing for any American (yes, including the left-oriented ones) to be afraid of. If you really wanted to find some way to reconcile the many political differences we can observe from state to state, you would simply advocate more governmental autonomy for all of the states, not their exclusion from the country they belong to.

So political differences not withstanding, I hope you can one day abandon this pretentious need to "other" your fellow Americans--hell, as much as I'd love to see New England and the upper-Atlantic states stop infecting the country with their Euro-wannabe politicians, I would never go so far as to advocate the collective seccession of those states. That sort of arrogance is repugnant to me.
Have you ever read the posts on CD from Southerners? Do you realize they despise Lincoln, one of our greatest presidents? They hate the Fed Govt. They are anti American to the core. I think of them as reluctant Americans. They worship traitors like Robert E Lee. I say if you hate America that much just leave already.
 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:16 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,958,417 times
Reputation: 3490
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
You realize there are liberals in the south right especially in major metros? Folks who want secession are radical, I can tell you right now before the Georgia gov wants to join a "CSA" the state gov would have to answer to the 32% of blacks, or the general 40% minority pop it has, plus the white liberal and moderates who disagree with it.

Cross migration will answer that...it is already happening:

Pew: Almost half of Americans want to live somewhere else - USATODAY.com




Quote:
You seem to have the ideal that states are all red or all blue that not how it works. During the national election states are winner takes all so if a state is 60% red and 40% it would become a red won state that doesn't change it's 40% blue. Besides that your post is overly stereotyping. Honestly I don't know many people who like NASCAR. And how you know there aren't many people down here who share your interest? Because your comment is over the top generalizing and insulting.

So, regional cultures do not exist in America? Yep, there are just as many relentless recycling hippies in Oklahoma as there are in Oregon and just as many cowboys in Rhode Island as there are in Montana

Not to mention that even left/right politics are different by region. A conservative in Eastern Washington is a liberal in Alabama.

Quote:
On the topic session though true nothing last forever but I believe if the US does break it will be on a Issue that we are yet to know about.
More like an issue we all know about: U.S. National Debt Clock

Quote:
And how the US will break will be an even bigger mystery. As I said states are not monolithic so it has to be something the overwhelming majority of a state agree on. With the opposing of another state in which the overwhelming feels the opposite.
We will negotiate and deal with it. Other nations have done similar.

Quote:
European and Asian countries have larger histories, that historically were different nations in which had long histories that join together who had different languages and ethnic make ups. A lot of the time large empire expanded over smaller nations that later break apart because of such reasons.
He have those same issues here.

Quote:
There's nothing in the US that compared to Kazakhstan breaking from the USSR. Kazakh Khanate was a nation lasting centuries before the Russian empire came. Other nations had prior history as well, like Georgia, Armenia and etc also.
"Nothing?"

Kingdom of Hawaii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Quote:
The US history is too young and diverse with in itself to break apart like that. For instance Cali was once part of Mexico and Spain but why would Cali separate from NY for such reasons?
Because of a different culture, different history, different language etc.

Quote:
Most people have no connection to that history like that Cali boom because people coming from the East and later people from all over. The US is nothing like the USSR. Texas was it's own country for just 10 years, and it's ironic because it broke from mexico because it was too American. Even with in that most Texans roots today don't go back that far to want to recreate the republic of Texas. Talking about the USSR your talking about people who had separate nationally loyalties to ancestry in same spot for centuries. The US is not in that contexts.
No separate nationalities? Not according to the facts:
 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:21 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 9,958,417 times
Reputation: 3490
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
That idiotic map sure makes some quantum leap assumptions. Negotiations are out of the question due to the plethora of natural resources within those territories you presume to include in both Cascadia and Northwestern Union. What is it you would bring to the table to convince us up here in the frigid north to form an alliance and forsake our heritage or viewed destiny?

Nowhere near as big an idiotic assumption that people in New England will allow rednecks from the deep south to tell them how to live forever, or that the North West will let a bunch of puritans push the fascist war on drugs on us forever.

WTF heritage does Washington State have in common with Alabama? We have as much in common with them as we do Nova Scotia.

Bottom line is we wont be ruled over by a bunch of people who don't share our values or beliefs forever...and no one answered my question: why is it a nation secedes and that's a declaration of war, but a person secedes (leaves the US for Canada or something) and no one does anything? Why not build a Berlin wall and force people to stay American if you like the Empire so damn much?
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