Caribbean-Americans: An Invisible Minority Seeking Identity And Affirmation (life, accent, facts)
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This is precisely to what I was referring to. The Spanish islands retained a much greater Taino influence than did the British/French islands and less of the African influence, despite the racial demographics. The history of slavery explains this difference, as well as the fact that in Cuba is where greater pride in African culture is shown among the three Spanish islands. The fact that Cuba was the Spanish island that received the most slaves and also the one where the African cultural strain is the strongest, can't also be overlooked.
Those islands had more Tainos. The Kalinago presence was stronger in islands colonized by the British and the French. This why the last pure Kalinagos live in Dominica.
Why were you referring to this though? It has been stated numerous times in this thread that the West Indian/Caribbean ID is meant to specifically encompass the Caribbean Latino islands.Additionally, we are not concerned with race here.
Most migrated to Cuba, less so to Puerto Rico and much less to Dominican Republic. Also, in all three countries its suspected that Taino DNA is greater preserved in the mixed population as well compared to other parts of the Caribbean. So far, this has been confirmed in the Dominican Republic and in Puerto Rico, but I'm not aware of any DNA test-based studies on the Cuban population.
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Originally Posted by Antonio84
I never denied or questioned that.
Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic clearly have Taino heritage. You can see it in the faces of the people. Not sure about Cuba either.
Your posts pointed out T&T as an anomaly so I am simply stating that Guyana is West Indian and very similar in terms of ethnic makeup. Some of other islands, though largely African, still have cultural similarities with us. Their other ethnicities may be smaller but are still similar to ours.
Those islands had more Tainos. The Kalinago presence was stronger in islands colonized by the British and the French. This why the last pure Kalinagos live in Dominica.
Why were you referring to this though? It has been stated numerous times in this thread that the West Indian/Caribbean ID is meant to specifically encompass the Caribbean Latino islands.Additionally, we are not concerned with race here.
That was residue from my previous response to Barzie. Sorry about that.
I've known about the Carib descendants in Dominica, but was not aware if there's much descendants on the other Lesser Antilles. There were Tainos in Jamaica and Haiti too, but somehow the cultural and DNA survival is much less there. Of course, history explains that too.
And before anyone asks why I mentioned the Tainos of Jamaica and Haiti, I did so because there is a trend that reappears time and again between the British/French islands vs the Spanish ones, and this explains a lot of why one group tends to be much more bonded together in a West Indian identity while those from the Spanish islands tend to not be as embracing of that identity and instead opt for the Hispanic/Latino identity. Then there are the exceptions in places like Panama and Costa Rica, where blacks there are more likely to accept a West Indian identity, but since most of them descend from blacks from the British Caribbean and migrated there in relatively recent times and as free people, then history also explains those anomalies.
Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic clearly have Taino heritage. You can see it in the faces of the people. Not sure about Cuba either.
Your posts pointed out T&T as an anomaly so I am simply stating that Guyana is West Indian and very similar in terms of ethnic makeup. Some of other islands, though largely African, still have cultural similarities with us. Their other ethnicities may be smaller but are still similar to ours.
Agree on that and with this, lets put an end to the off topic.
That was residue from my previous response to Barzie. Sorry about that.
I've known about the Carib descendants in Dominica, but was not aware if there's much descendants on the other Lesser Antilles. There were Tainos in Jamaica and Haiti too, but somehow the cultural and DNA survival is much less there. Of course, history explains that too.
And before anyone asks why I mentioned the Tainos of Jamaica and Haiti, I did so because there is a trend that reappears time and again between the British/French islands vs the Spanish ones, and this explains a lot of why one group tends to be much more bonded together in a West Indian identity while those from the Spanish islands tend to not be as embracing of that identity and instead opt for the Hispanic/Latino identity. Then there are the exceptions in places like Panama and Costa Rica, where blacks there are more likely to accept a West Indian identity, but since most of them descend from blacks from the British Caribbean and migrated there in relatively recent times and as free people, then history also explains those anomalies.
See that's why the other discussion seemed strange to me. It's completely understandable that the Caribbean Latinos would be more bonded and West Indian islands would be more bonded, with some Panamanian and Costa Ricans identifying as both WI and Latino. The linguistic and ethnic make up of the Caribbean Latino population would clearly make for a closer link. Same for West Indians, even including the mixed nations, due to history, movements etc. That's why it was clarified multiple times that Carib ID is more focused on the later but allows anyone from the former to join in if more comfortable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio84
Agree on that and with this, lets put an end to the off topic.
This is precisely to what I was referring to. The Spanish islands retained a much greater Taino influence than did the British/French islands and less of the African influence, despite the racial mixture demographics. The history of slavery explains this difference, as well as the fact that in Cuba is where greater pride in African culture is shown among the three Spanish islands. The fact that Cuba was the Spanish island that received the most slaves and also the one where the African cultural strain is the strongest, can't also be overlooked.
Dominican Republic, Cuba and Puerto Rico received many African slaves, plenty of them and it proves in their genetic mixture, the average Dominican is 50% African, the average Puerto Rican is 27% African and the average Cuban is 70% African. The Spanish islands do not have a lot of Taino influence especially if you compare it to South American native american influence, the influence in Spanish Caribbean islands is nothing, majority of your influences are African not taino.
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But I bet that culturally you are also much more black than either are Dominicans, Cubans or Puerto Rican blacks. The much closer resemblance is probably with black Cubans, I think; but history explains that too. At the end of the day, people's heritage references depends more on cultural affinities than on the degree of racial mixtures, although I remember reading that the average mixed person in the three Spanish countries tend to have higher European and Taino admixture than is typical in the rest of the islands, minus perhaps a handful of anomalies.
Anyway, folks, I'm simply reacting to the posts people are making here regarding these topics.
No i am not, since I was raised in Europe, I was born in Europe and was raised by mixed parents with an European mentality, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Cubans are more culturally African than me but I still claim my African ancestry to the fullest. And I have been to New York so dont try to feed me some bull**** because I know how your people behave, I have also been to Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic
Dominican Republic, Cuba and Puerto Rico received many African slaves, plenty of them and it proves in their genetic mixture, the average Dominican is 50% African, the average Puerto Rican is 27% African and the average Cuban is 70% African. The Spanish islands do not have a lot of Taino influence especially if you compare it to South American native american influence, the influence in Spanish Caribbean islands is nothing, majority of your influences are African not taino.
The majority of their influences is actually Spanish, the African and Taino influences are secondary and don't really correspond with genetic composition. This why I said culture and despite racial mixture demographics. I don't know where you got the Cuban percentage though and it doesn't seems right. Also, there is no question that there is more Taino influences in the Spanish Caribbean than in the rest of the islands, even in Jamaica and in Haiti, where there were also many Tainos too. But whatever.
Here's a map that I found that clearly shows the intensity of slave imports in the Caribbean islands between 1619 and 1808. I hope I don't have to pin point the obvious difference between the Spanish Caribbean and the rest of the islands.
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Originally Posted by Barzie
No i am not, since I was raised in Europe, I was born in Europe and was raised by mixed parents with an European mentality, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans and Cubans are more culturally African than me but I still claim my African ancestry to the fullest. And I have been to New York so dont try to feed me some bull**** because I know how your people behave, I have also been to Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic
They are not my people, I simply understand their culture since I have studied them and been to their countries multiple times for months at time (although I've not been to Cuba yet.)
But I congratulate you for claiming your African ancestry and denying everything else or at least, make believe it doesn't exist. As a mixed race person, you have the right to identify with one side of your heritage, some of it, or all of it; the same with all other mixed race people. It is weird though that someone that knows hardly shares anything cultural with some people, would claim that identity. Seems like a denial issue to me, but that's ok.
The majority of their influences is actually Spanish, the African and Taino influences are secondary and don't really correspond with genetic composition. This why I said culture and despite racial mixture demographics. I don't know where you got the Cuban percentage though and it doesn't seems right. Also, there is no question that there is more Taino influences in the Spanish Caribbean than in the rest of the islands, even in Jamaica and in Haiti, where there were also many Tainos too. But whatever.
Here's a map that I found that clearly shows the intensity of slave imports in the Caribbean islands between 1619 and 1808. I hope I don't have to pin point the obvious difference between the Spanish Caribbean and the rest of the islands.
Since there is an insistence on this topic...
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The most important markets for illegal slavers wore Cuba and Brazil. From Cuba the African Negros wore illegally transported on fast clippers to the southern states of America, often with false documents to prove the slaves originated from other Caribbean colonies and not from Africa. British, American, French and Dutch ships took part in the illegal slave transports that happened until 1870. At a rough estimation, about 1,898,400 slaves have been transported over the Atlantic Ocean between 1811 and 1870. Sixty per-cent of these slaves wore transported to Brazil, 32 percent to Cuba and Puerto Rico, 5 percent to the French West Indies and only 3 percent straight to the United States, but many slaves were brought to the United States through Cuba.
Here is where the distinction seems to lie...
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Before the slave trade ended, the Caribbean had taken approximately 47 percent of the 10 million African slaves brought to the Americas. Of this number, about 17 percent came to the British Caribbean. Although the white populations maintained their superior social positions, they became a numerical minority in all the islands. In the early nineteenth century, fewer than 5 percent of the total population of Jamaica, Grenada, Nevis, St. Vincent, and Tobago was white, fewer than 10 percent of the population of Anguilla, Montserrat, St. Kitts, St. Lucia, and the Virgin Islands. Only in the Bahamas, Barbados, and Trinidad was more than 10 percent of the total population white. By sharp contrast, Trinidad was the only colony in the British Caribbean to have fewer than 80 percent of its population enslaved. Sugar and slavery gave to the region a predominantly African population.
The majority of other islands are very small. Thus, 17% of the African slaves came to the British Caribbean. The major difference is that more Europeans came to the Spanish Caribbean and mixed with the African slaves there.
Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 02-22-2013 at 09:24 PM..
Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic clearly have Taino heritage. You can see it in the faces of the people. Not sure about Cuba either.
They do have Taino ancestry, the average Puerto Rican has about 12% Taino ancestry and Dominican Republic has about 5% Taino, Cuba has 0% Taino, Cubans are mixed with European and black, they have not Taino ancestry, it is very rare for them to score Native American ancestry.
Also Puerto Ricans nor Dominicans show Taino in their face they show what they are, half negroes
The majority of their influences is actually Spanish, the African and Taino influences are secondary and don't really correspond with genetic composition. This why I said culture and despite racial mixture demographics. I don't know where you got the Cuban percentage though and it doesn't seems right. Also, there is no question that there is more Taino influences in the Spanish Caribbean than in the rest of the islands, even in Jamaica and in Haiti, where there were also many Tainos too. But whatever.
Here's a map that I found that clearly shows the intensity of slave imports in the Caribbean islands between 1619 and 1808. I hope I don't have to pin point the obvious difference between the Spanish Caribbean and the rest of the islands.
Wrong, majority of their influence is African not Spanish, their food and music are majority African stop white washing their influence from Africa you dumb clown
The results demonstrate a high level of European and African admixture in Mulattos (57-59% European; 41-43% West African). The European contribution was higher in those of Spanish descent (85%) while in those of African descent, the West African contribution ranged between 74% and 76%. Genetic structure was only detected in Mulattos and those of African descent. An Amerindian contribution was not detectable in the studied sample.
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they show what they are, half negroes
stop white washing their influence from Africa you dumb clown