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First of all, I told you who I am, now tell me who you are, a Cuban who lived in Cuba (where exactly?) or an American Cuban or an American non-Cuban?
The Soviets helped them a lot but they never became a slave. The economy is in the hands of Cubans, not Russians, and not Americans (which was the case untill 1959)
Russians let other Soviet nations go their way without violence, whenever some states wanted to secede from the US a civil war erupted. The US also has a long history of supporting and organising military coups in other nations, and a long history of military intervention in countries far away, such as Vietnam, Panama, Iraq, etc.
Russia has always been poorer than the West during tsarist times, but during Soviet times the difference became less pronounced. When Russia adopted capitalism, living standards plumetted.
There's no such thing as free and fair elections, not even in the US. Corporate groups choose which party they are going to support, which means more campaign money and more media attention, which makes the difference in every election. Cuba could adopt multi-party elections, if the communist party would still have the monopoly on the media it wouldn't change much. However, it's obvious the US would heavily finance an opposition party, that's why Castro doesn't want it. In Russia elections are free and fair. Problem is that all media attention and money goes to the regime parties, not unlike the US.
I've met plenty of Haitians, and inhabitants of Domenica, Grenada, El Salvador and other Caraibian states living in Cuba.
You are wrong about that. Most want to stay, and try to marry Cuban ladies in order to stay.
it's exactly the same in Cuba.
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Cuba is full of latin American students. Before you make comments, please inform yourself.
So Mexican telenovelas are your window on the reality in Latin America? Sorry to disappoint you, but the very nice haciendas you see in Corazon Salvaje and other novelas are not typical of the real life in Mexico... and by the way these telenovelas are also broadcasted in Cuba. Most Cubans have had enough education to know that these have nothing to do with real life.
everyone has the opportunity to go to university, wether their families are poor or rich, another big difference with most latin American countries and even the US.
Elsewhere you have to be rich to study at a university, unless you are a genius and get a scholarship. 90% of students at universities in Dominican republic, etc. have rich parents. Even in the US very few students at good universities have poor parents.
They have a decent enough life, and the possibility to have a career. (for example being a doctor in another country). In the us unless you're rich, you have failed. poor people are worthless, only good to have mcjobs, be fat and be exploited. That's a different kind of mentality as in Cuba.
it's true that even the elite in Cuba is not rich. Most latin Americans who study in Cuba come from middle class families, they don't know how the poor live in their own country. That's typical of a class society. In Cuba the difference between poor, middle class and elite is much smaller. It also means the elite and middle class are poorer than the average elite and middle class in other latin countries.
It reminds me of Venezuela. The middle class and the elite truly hate Chavez and his men. Yet every election the people vote for the chavistas. It means that the poor still feel that Chavez did something good for them, and the poor are the majority. Under Chavez they became less poor.
the government controls many things in the us as well. For example I got fined for smoking in a parc in NYC, in the "land of the free". however there is no evidence that the party elite are rich or have Swiss bank accounts, all such rumors proved to be false. this is a huge difference with other latin countries.
these are tiny islands, most caraibians live in Dominican republic, Cuba, Haiti, Jamaica. There are lots of political murders in Jamaica and Dominican republic (not even mentioning Haiti...), and lots of shacks. That's why HDI is higher in cuba. Cubans live longer, because healthcare is free and better, and also education is better. Ever heard of Dominican or Jamaican doctors going to Bolivia, Laos, Brazil, etc.?
Any way the fact that you celebrate the Soviet Union quite clearly indicates to me what your ideological orientation is. Get its straight. BOTH the USA and the USSR during the Cold War were locked in to an attempt to 100% dominate the world, and BOTH did some very evil things to people in order to be able to do so. Please do not come and tell me otherwise because I have met way too many Russians who have told me what a hell hole the USSR was to live in. And they forced the Cubans to adopt the same extreme monitoring of their people with all the neighborhood busy bodies reporting back to party tyrants about what some one said or was doing.
I mean why do Cubans have to defect? If they want to leave and some country is willing to use their services why not?
Yes there are students from other parts of the world. When they finish they GO HOME. And what are those Grenadians doing in Cuba? Interested to find out. If you are talking about a few left wing lunatics who cant return home that doesn't count. So tell me about ordinary non ideological people who migrated to Cuba since 1980 for a better life. Caribbean people like freedom too much, and when some idiot insults black people, as happens often there, we aren't accustomed to remaining silent as Cubans blacks have been intimidated into doing.
OK so you don't think that Cubans should have the right to get rid of govts like their Caribbean neighbors can and do? They get rid of them when they don't like them and corporate elites in those countries have nothing to do with that. In fact the parties currently in power in Jamaica and Barbados as an example aren't favored by the business elites in those countries. Portia Simpson, the current Jamaican PM is from the same ideological cloth of Michael Manley and the wealthy folks definitely despise her.
Please do not babble nonsense. Haiti was a safe place under Papa Doc. It isn't now. So when Cuba's ample police/spy/army surveillance apparatus is dismantled crime on that island will soar.
If that is your proof that Cuba is nice think again. In fact Cuba is now going to scale back on sending doctors because it can no longer afford to do this. And it sends doctors to buy votes at the UN, not because they care about these people. They don't even treat their own black people properly so why will they care about others in the Caribbean and Africa? Any case the basic health care that is free in Cuba is also free, or heavily subsidized in those islands as well. Also in Costa Rica, so no Cuba doesn't have a monopoly on that.
Are you going to complain about being fined in NYC because your filthy habit is destroying other people's quality of life with the severe restrictions which Cubans live under? I think not. No in NYC your freedom doesn't extend to polluting the air with your poison to adversely impact others. You want to destroy your health fine, but don't destroy mine too.
I am not Cuban. I am Guyanese and happen to know loads of people who studied there. I know that they got better food than the Cubans who weren't too happy about it as on some days all they had was ROTTEN fish. And what I do know is that if you told those people all this high HDI nonsense they would have laughed at you. Statistics are one thing, and quality of life is another. A student from St Kitts, when asked about Cuba, responded that "they live like we did in the 1950s". He was even a bit guilty about the scholarship and the preferential treatment that he received compared to he Cuban students.
I also know the struggles that Cuban doctors and nurses who are sent to other parts of the Caribbean make to not have to go back. Loads get married to locals. I know that the Cuban gov't frequently forces them back on "re=orientation" in order to keep tabs on them. Even though Cuban doctors in these islands earn less than the local doctors their standard of living is higher than it would be in Cuba. Given the effort that people make to be doctors what's wrong with them wanting to live the way a middle class professional should...nice home..nice car...occasional vacation, etc? Nothing lavish. In Cuba they must endure the humiliation of seeing the dunce in the class make more money if he is a taxi driver.
The elite of Cuba doesn't derive its power from wealth. Its their power that way exceeds those of most political elites any where. It does because the lack of elections that you celebrate means that they can treat the Cuban people however they wish to without any fears of being tossed out of power. So yes 90% of everything that Cubans try to do is controlled by these people. Hey, it was only the other day that there were even allowed to own their homes and to sell them! Imagine you had to beg the govt to find you a place to live!
Oh and by the way. The Caribbean students who go to Cuba aren't from the elites. They study in North America. And those who don't go to University of the West Indies. Its those not bright enough to get into UWI and lacking the resources to study in North America who get scholarships for Cuba. So these are from the poor or lower middle class, so yes they fully well know how poor and lower middle class people live in their homelands.
Indeed upper middle class people will sooner cut off their right hand than go to study in Cuba, because they know full well, should they want to migrate to North America, that the degree will be worthless. Poorer students don't have that option so take their chances.
Any way the fact that you celebrate the Soviet Union quite clearly indicates to me what your ideological orientation is.
I'm a Russian, many Russians think that the communist period was better than the current one. They know that because they lived in both periods, not trough the biased western media as you do.
One should notice, nevertheless, that Romania is aligned to the average East-European opinion regarding the comparative evaluation between the communist period and the present one. For example, the results of a poll of 2009 indicated that 72% of the Hungarians stated that living at present is worse than in the communist period, 62% of the Bulgarians and the Ukrainians made the same statement, just as 42% of the Lithuanians and Slovaks, 45% of the Russians, 39% of the Czechs, and 35% of the Polish.
Get its straight. BOTH the USA and the USSR during the Cold War were locked in to an attempt to 100% dominate the world, and BOTH did some very evil things to people in order to be able to do so.
But the us never invaded countries on the other side of the world, as the US did.
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Please do not come and tell me otherwise because I have met way too many Russians who have told me what a hell hole the USSR was to live in.
probably they were Jews, as I am too by the way. Most Jews migrated to the us, because honestly Jews in the US have a fairly priviliged position. But the honest ones will admit that life for average Russian deteriorated. Of course since the arrival of Putin Russia is doing much better. Another western lie is that Putin was bad for Russia, really bad was Yeltsin, during his rule the economy capsised like the Titanic.
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And they forced the Cubans to adopt the same extreme monitoring of their people with all the neighborhood busy bodies reporting back to party tyrants about what some one said or was doing.
Russians never had troops in Cuba, so they couldn't force anything. It was the decision by Cuba's leaders to copy the Soviet system, with its advantages and disadvantages. However, they never really propperly copied it. That's why Cuba never had the same development and industrialisation as the Soviet-Union.
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I mean why do Cubans have to defect? If they want to leave and some country is willing to use their services why not?
Cubans are the only latin-Americans who will not be send back once on us soil. to prevent other latins like Mexicans or Guatemalans to migrate to the us they build a big wall.
The US is a rich country with big salaries, and that's why many Cubans want to go to the US, as many Mexicans, Dominicans, Hondurese, etc. . However, not all. Many doctors working in Venezuela, Bolivia, Brazil, etc. have the opportunity to escape to the us, few do so.
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Yes there are students from other parts of the world. When they finish they GO HOME. And what are those Grenadians doing in Cuba? Interested to find out. If you are talking about a few left wing lunatics who cant return home that doesn't count. So tell me about ordinary non ideological people who migrated to Cuba since 1980 for a better life.
First of all they are not allowed to stay, unless they marry a Cuban. Especially many Haitians want to stay in Cuba, this is well known fact in Cuba.
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Caribbean people like freedom too much, and when some idiot insults black people, as happens often there, we aren't accustomed to remaining silent as Cubans blacks have been intimidated into doing.
Oh, come on, I lived among Cuban blacks, they get all the opportunities they don't get in other countries, such as acces to the best universities if they are smart enough, good healthcare (many blacks even in the us have to rely on the poor hospitals provided by medicaid, that's why average life expectancy among black Americans is lower than among black Cubans). The problem is mentality, which is only changing very slowly. And by the way if the "one drop rule" would apply in Cuba, most Cubans would be considered black. Only the really black are considered "morenos" of "negros", most Cubans are "trigueno".
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OK so you don't think that Cubans should have the right to get rid of govts like their Caribbean neighbors can and do?
in most Caraibian neighbors (except Venezuela of course, to a lesser extent Jamaica) the government consists of the same few parties which ruled the country for ages and all of them are owned by the rich elite, who also own much of the press. Like in the US, by the way...
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They get rid of them when they don't like them and corporate elites in those countries have nothing to do with that. In fact the parties currently in power in Jamaica and Barbados as an example aren't favored by the business elites in those countries. Portia Simpson, the current Jamaican PM is from the same ideological cloth of Michael Manley and the wealthy folks definitely despise her.
She belongs to a socialist party, is a friend of the Castro's, and Jamaica has been ruled by her party and the labour party for decades, that's why Jamaica is standing out favorably compared to Dominican republic, Honduras, Guatemala, etc.
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Please do not babble nonsense. Haiti was a safe place under Papa Doc. It isn't now.
papa doc was a cruel dictator and he made his own family very rich.
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So when Cuba's ample police/spy/army surveillance apparatus is dismantled crime on that island will soar.
Yes, but they are not about to dismantle that system, and right they are. Especially the CDR's are very effective in preventing crime, I have first hand experience with that.
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If that is your proof that Cuba is nice think again. In fact Cuba is now going to scale back on sending doctors because it can no longer afford to do this.
it's a lucrative deal for Cuba, half the money Cuban doctors get paid (easily 1000$ or more per month) go to the state.
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And it sends doctors to buy votes at the UN, not because they care about these people.
primarily it's about money or other benefits (such as petrol) these days. It used to be about ideology but that changed when Cuba went bankrupt after the Soviets withdrew their support and the helms-burton law crippled Cuban economy.
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They don't even treat their own black people properly so why will they care about others in the Caribbean and Africa? Any case the basic health care that is free in Cuba is also free, or heavily subsidized in those islands as well. Also in Costa Rica, so no Cuba doesn't have a monopoly on that.
Cuba has the highest life expectancy in the region, so they must do some things right. It's NOT free in countries like Guatemala, Dominican republic, etc. and not free in the us, unless you are dirt poor. (in that case you get second-rate hospitals and doctors)
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Are you going to complain about being fined in NYC because your filthy habit is destroying other people's quality of life with the severe restrictions which Cubans live under? I think not. No in NYC your freedom doesn't extend to polluting the air with your poison to adversely impact others. You want to destroy your health fine, but don't destroy mine too.
many americans are destroying their health by eating too much fastfood everyday, of course most of them belong to the poor, and many of them are black. The rich (mostly white, lots of Jews) elite in the us gets much older than the poor. That's perfectly legal. But smoking in a parc, which doesn't harm anyone, somehow is very dangerous. In Cuba, people are allowed to smoke everywhere, and many do. Many also like to drink a lot and f***** around. Still, lots of Cubans get past 90.
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I am not Cuban. I am Guyanese and happen to know loads of people who studied there.
I know Guyana is a mainly black and Indian country which is quite poor. I've met Guyanese students in Cuba, they enjoyed their time there.
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I know that they got better food than the Cubans who weren't too happy about it as on some days all they had was ROTTEN fish. And what I do know is that if you told those people all this high HDI nonsense they would have laughed at you. Statistics are one thing, and quality of life is another.
I've never denied that Cuba is poor. However all Cubans have access to electricity, whereas: It is estimated that the electricity system in Guyana services only about 60 percent of the population, well below the level achieved by many regional peers.Electricity sector in Guyana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just an example.
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I also know the struggles that Cuban doctors and nurses who are sent to other parts of the Caribbean make to not have to go back. Loads get married to locals. I know that the Cuban gov't frequently forces them back on "re=orientation" in order to keep tabs on them. Even though Cuban doctors in these islands earn less than the local doctors their standard of living is higher than it would be in Cuba. Given the effort that people make to be doctors what's wrong with them wanting to live the way a middle class professional should...nice home..nice car...occasional vacation, etc? Nothing lavish. In Cuba they must endure the humiliation of seeing the dunce in the class make more money if he is a taxi driver.
Cuban doctors usually have a decent house and a decent living standard, but why should they have luxuary such as expensive cars when average Cubans can't affort that? Especially since you know in Cuba the state pays for education. In turn doctors should not expect to be rich as in other countries where university studies are expensive. The difference of Cuba compared to other countries in the region is that a doctor can make twice as much money as, for example, a house cleaner or garbage collector. In other countries they make at least 5 times as much.
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It does because the lack of elections that you celebrate means that they can treat the Cuban people however they wish to without any fears of being tossed out of power. So yes 90% of everything that Cubans try to do is controlled by these people. Hey, it was only the other day that there were even allowed to own their homes and to sell them! Imagine you had to beg the govt to find you a place to live!
In the us noone can be elected without the support of powerfull groups and lobbies, such as the Jews or big corporate groups. (and remember, I'm a Jew so I know perfectly well). In other countries, such as Guatemala, Mexico, etc. nearly all politicians come from a rich background, and there are a lot of political murders, as well as assasination of labour union leaders, etc. so yes, Cuba's system is not perfect, I agree, but yours is not perfect either.
Oh and by the way. The Caribbean students who go to Cuba aren't from the elites. They study in North America. And those who don't go to University of the West Indies. Its those not bright enough to get into UWI and lacking the resources to study in North America who get scholarships for Cuba. So these are from the poor or lower middle class, so yes they fully well know how poor and lower middle class people live in their homelands.
Indeed upper middle class people will sooner cut off their right hand than go to study in Cuba, because they know full well, should they want to migrate to North America, that the degree will be worthless. Poorer students don't have that option so take their chances.
Well, let's take Guatemala. Almost half the population can't read and write, you think they'll be able to go to a Cuban university? And for many people even the airplane ticket and daily expenses are way too expensive. So perhaps the students in Cuba don't come from the upperclass(which indeed will send their children to the us or Europe), they certainly don't come from the poor half of the population either.
Cuban degrees are not wothless in their country of origine (for example Suriname, Guyana, Venezuela, etc.) and not everyone wants or has the possibility to migrate to North America. They are much more valuable to their country in their home, for example doctors going to villages in the interior with little or now healthcare available. Of course if they only think about getting rich quickly, that's a different story.
Well, let's take Guatemala. Almost half the population can't read and write, you think they'll be able to go to a Cuban university? And for many people even the airplane ticket and daily expenses are way too expensive. So perhaps the students in Cuba don't come from the upperclass(which indeed will send their children to the us or Europe), they certainly don't come from the poor half of the population either.
Cuban degrees are not wothless in their country of origine (for example Suriname, Guyana, Venezuela, etc.) and not everyone wants or has the possibility to migrate to North America. They are much more valuable to their country in their home, for example doctors going to villages in the interior with little or now healthcare available. Of course if they only think about getting rich quickly, that's a different story.
Guyana has a huge population in the USA and Canada and a great many do not want to rule out the opportunity to live there if the opportunity comes up. There are 750,000 people in Guyana and approximately 400,000 living in North America. Cleasrly more if you add their North American born kids. There are many who have more relatives outside of Guyana than inside.
So NO only those who have no choice study in Cuba. Because they know full well that there will not have the ability to use that degree should they wish to migrate.
So disabuse yourself of the notion that the Guyanese students in Cuba are some privileged group who don't know how the poor live. In fact you will discover that a large % of those who study are what we call adult students (in their 20s). People who didn't have the opportunity to study as soon as they left high school.
Well you admit that you love communism so what can I say. No wonder you love Cuba. No point arguing with you.
One thing though. COMMUNISM HAS FAILED. As to USSR not invading. Well I guess Afghanistan will take huge exception to that.
But apparently most Russians don't seem to share your view because most don't seem excited about the prospects of long lines, near starvation, and the KGB as you seem to be.
I suggest that you confine your remarks to Guatemala, your favorite country. You seem to have a need to as its the only way that your Cuba can look good. Please don't discuss the rest of the Caribbean because it is clear that you have no idea about what you are talking about. Which Caribbean country has an old entrenched elite? The rich in Guyana are new rich people who made money when Guyana decided to play socialist, the economy collapsed and the black market thrived. Most of the old elites no longer have money.
As to Guyanese students. Yes they were well taken care of. There was a time when they weren't and they petitioned the Guyana Embassy in Cuba, and Cuba improved their living conditions. Apparently they took exception to being fed the type of food that Cuban students were being fed. You see when Guyanese students didn't like something they had an ability to protest to get it fixed. They were threatening to return home if conditions weren't improved.
This is why Cuba doesn't want Cubans to have the idea that they should be allowed to vote, because they will get the silly notion that they can actually protest, instead of meekly accepting what ever the gov't tells them for fear of being arrested.
Most of the Guyanese in Cuba are studying medicine or engineering. Give me ONE reason why they would want to stay in Cuba. A very high % of the doctors in Guyana are Cuban, and they seem to love Guyanese women. Clearly Cuban women aren't ugly so it must be that marrying a Guyanese allows them to stay in Guyana. Most assuredly as poor as Guyana is it is miles ahead of Cuba the way that most Guyanese live. And this is definitely true for college graduates. Those who don't like Guyana can pack their bags and leave.
Now why cant Cubans who don't like living in Cuba leave without having to jump in car tires and risk being shot and killed by the Cuban coastguard?
Isn't it arrogant of you to have the freedom to roam the world, but yet have that right denied to Cubans?
Oh, come on, I lived among Cuban blacks, they get all the opportunities they don't get in other countries, such as acces to the best universities if they are smart enough, good healthcare (many blacks even in the us have to rely on the poor hospitals provided by medicaid, that's why average life expectancy among black Americans is lower than among black Cubans). The problem is mentality, which is only changing very slowly. And by the way if the "one drop rule" would apply in Cuba, most Cubans would be considered black. Only the really black are considered "morenos" of "negros", most Cubans are "trigueno".
doc was a cruel dictator and he made his own family very rich.
Yes, but they are not about to dismantle that system, and right they are. Especially the CDR's are very effective in preventing crime, I have first hand experience with that.
it's a lucrative deal for Cuba, half the money Cuban doctors get paid (easily 1000$ or more per month) go to the state.
primarily it's about money or other benefits (such as petrol) these days. It used to be about ideology but that changed when Cuba went bankrupt after the Soviets withdrew their support and the helms-burton law crippled Cuban economy.
Cuba has the highest life expectancy in the region, so they must do some things right. It's NOT free in countries like Guatemala, Dominican republic, etc. and not free in the us, unless you are dirt poor. (in that case you get second-rate hospitals and doctors)
many americans are destroying their health by eating too much fastfood everyday, of course most of them belong to the poor, and many of them are black. The rich (mostly white, lots of Jews) elite in the us gets much older than the poor. That's perfectly legal. But smoking in a parc, which doesn't harm anyone, somehow is very dangerous. In Cuba, people are allowed to smoke everywhere, and many do. Many also like to drink a lot and f***** around. Still, lots of Cubans get past 90.
I know Guyana is a mainly black and Indian country which is quite poor. I've met Guyanese students in Cuba, they enjoyed their time there.
I've never denied that Cuba is poor. However all Cubans have access to electricity, whereas: It is estimated that the electricity system in Guyana services only about 60 percent of the population, well below the level achieved by many regional peers.Electricity sector in Guyana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just an example.
Cuban doctors usually have a decent house and a decent living standard, but why should they have luxuary such as expensive cars when average Cubans can't affort that? Especially since you know in Cuba the state pays for education. In turn doctors should not expect to be rich as in other countries where university studies are expensive. The difference of Cuba compared to other countries in the region is that a doctor can make twice as much money as, for example, a house cleaner or garbage collector. In other countries they make at least 5 times as much.
In the us noone can be elected without the support of powerfull groups and lobbies, such as the Jews or big corporate groups. (and remember, I'm a Jew so I know perfectly well). In other countries, such as Guatemala, Mexico, etc. nearly all politicians come from a rich background, and there are a lot of political murders, as well as assasination of labour union leaders, etc. so yes, Cuba's system is not perfect, I agree, but yours is not perfect either.
Understand one thing sir. I live in NYC. I went to an Ivy League graduate school and 10% of the students there were BLACK. There are blacks in NYC who own investment banks, law firms, architectural firms, engineering firms, real estate development firms, medical practices etc. Indeed 30% of the blacks in the USA have higher household incomes than do whites. Only around 25% will be poor. No white will call us to our face the insults that a Cuban white will call a black to their face.
This account was written by a Jamaican who was a Manley supporter and thought that Cuba would be an example. She discovered a racist cesspit.
So please don't peddle that myth that blacks are down trodden souls who pine to live in Cuba. The only freedom that blacks in Cub have is what the Castro tyrant allows them. I suggest you read "Pichones" by a Cuban black, who is hated by the Miami Cuban exiles. He basically says that the Castro regime is every bit as racist as the Miami exile mafia. They BOTH hate him.
OK I didn't have the facts but you have confirmed it. Cuba is pimping its doctors. No wonder they all have their little private practices in the Caribbean so they can pocket so many and prepare for the day when they defect. They will definitely do better then $500 dollars a month. I mean who doesn't love a lifestyle with a nice home, SUV, vacations etc. And not having to fear some nosy neighbor reporting your goings on to the local communist party goon.
Portia Simpson the PM of Jamaica came from the GHETTO. Almost all of the others came from working class or lower middle class background in the English speaking Caribbean, so why your incessant babble that democracy is a bad thing. There are some political parties supported by the economic elites and some which aren't. At the end of the day its the voters who decide which party they want.
But you don't think that Cubans deserve that, so they should be content to be ruled by two brothers who were the sons of a wealthy planter.
Jamaica my friend is one of the poorest countries in the Caribbean. Jamaicans pour into every Caribbean country except for Cuba, Haiti and the DR. Though they do like to go to Cuba to exploit the locals as sex tourists. Just the other day 13 of them were tossed out of Trinidad. They were trying to find work there. They get tossed out of The Bahamas, Grand Cayman, Antigua and Barbados.
I invite you to go to Barbados where they are about to dump the existing ruling party for landing that nation with its HIGH HDI in serious trouble (and yes they get FREE HEALTHCARE), and tell them hat democracy is a bad thing. In fact tell them that they should allow Barbados to become like Cuba, and see if they don't burst into applause thinking that you must be a comedian.
You know I was traveling on a plane and the Cuban Ambassador to the Eastern Caribbean sat down next to me. I asked him to compare living standards in Barbados with Cuba. He blushed and all he can say was that Barbados was too predictable (he meant that every thing works there and that he found too boring). Of course he blushed because like most Cubans in high slots he was a WHITE man in an island where many/most aren't white.
So my communist friend of what use is this education that blacks supposedly get in Cuba if they aren't able to gain access to the highest level leadership positions?
And why can't Cubans dump the Castro monstrosities who have turned Cuba into such a mess that the only way that you can make them look good is to babble about Guatemala.
Understand one thing sir. I live in NYC. I went to an Ivy League graduate school and 10% of the students there were BLACK. There are blacks in NYC who own investment banks, law firms, architectural firms, engineering firms, real estate development firms, medical practices etc. Indeed 30% of the blacks in the USA have higher household incomes than do whites. Only around 25% will be poor. No white will call us to our face the insults that a Cuban white will call a black to their face.
Still you can't deny the fact that blacks are generally much poorer, in worse health than whites in the us. They are overrepresented in jails.
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This account was written by a Jamaican who was a Manley supporter and thought that Cuba would be an example. She discovered a racist cesspit.
it's nonsense, I never saw more race-mixed couples in Cuba than anywhere else in the world. OK, Cuban are not politically correct people, they call blacks "******s" and make racist comments, after which blacks will call "whites" (but in Cuba most whites are not really white) names. Then they will have a drink together or chase women together. All schools, hospitals, and other workplaces are mixed troughout the country, except in Santiago where most people are black. They girlfriend, who looks African, has a "white" grandmother. In a few generations there won't be any blacks or whites left in Cuba, everyone will be halfcast. In the us, after many generations, blacks still marry mostly blacks and whites whites, so segregation. Obama's father was no African-American, and he was raised by his white family.
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OK I didn't have the facts but you have confirmed it. Cuba is pimping its doctors. No wonder they all have their little private practices in the Caribbean so they can pocket so many and prepare for the day when they defect. They will definitely do better then $500 dollars a month. I mean who doesn't love a lifestyle with a nice home, SUV, vacations etc. And not having to fear some nosy neighbor reporting your goings on to the local communist party goon.
If people from poor countries could make it to the us or Europe, most of the population of these countries would go, that's why the us build a large wall to stop migrants. How many Guyanese would stay in Guyana if all of them were offered the opportunity to live and work in the us?
Suriname people were offered the opportunity to live in the Netherlands, nowadays more Suriname people live in the Netherlands than in Suriname...
500$ a month is the average salary in many countries around the world, in many even much less. Also Cuban doctors don't pay for daily expenses such as accomodation or healthcare.
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Portia Simpson the PM of Jamaica came from the GHETTO. Almost all of the others came from working class or lower middle class background in the English speaking Caribbean, so why your incessant babble that democracy is a bad thing. There are some political parties supported by the economic elites and some which aren't. At the end of the day its the voters who decide which party they want.
almost all of them come from the elite, in countries like Dominican republic, which is most comparable to Cuba in terms of culture and (pre-revolution) history.
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They were trying to find work there. They get tossed out of The Bahamas, Grand Cayman, Antigua and Barbados.
So now you compare Cuba to some tiny islands with only a few 1000 inhabitants that are paradises for billionaires evading to pay taxes in their home country? You can compare Cuba to islands of similar extent, with a similar population and with a similar economic situation before the revolution.
Guyana has a huge population in the USA and Canada and a great many do not want to rule out the opportunity to live there if the opportunity comes up. There are 750,000 people in Guyana and approximately 400,000 living in North America. Cleasrly more if you add their North American born kids. There are many who have more relatives outside of Guyana than inside.
They are not living in the Us because the economy of guyana is booming, right?
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So NO only those who have no choice study in Cuba. Because they know full well that there will not have the ability to use that degree should they wish to migrate.
Well at least they can study in Cuba, which is better than no education, and clearly they prefer Cuba over their own universities... Also, I don't think that the 40% Guyanese who don't even have electricity in their houses (see above, wikipedia) have the money to pay for education in Cuba or even just an airplane ticket... So the rich study in the West, the poor stay home and the middle class likes to study in Cuba.
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Well you admit that you love communism so what can I say. No wonder you love Cuba. No point arguing with you.
One thing though. COMMUNISM HAS FAILED. As to USSR not invading. Well I guess Afghanistan will take huge exception to that.
Well, you never lived in the ussr, all you know about USSR are the lies in american media, which are as far from the truth as possible.
(or do you really believe the us press in not biased?)
I lived in the Soviet-Union, and as opinion polls show I'm not the only one who liked it...
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As to Guyanese students. Yes they were well taken care of. There was a time when they weren't and they petitioned the Guyana Embassy in Cuba, and Cuba improved their living conditions. Apparently they took exception to being fed the type of food that Cuban students were being fed. You see when Guyanese students didn't like something they had an ability to protest to get it fixed. They were threatening to return home if conditions weren't improved.
Cuban and foreign students are hosted in the same university dormitories and eat the same food.
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This is why Cuba doesn't want Cubans to have the idea that they should be allowed to vote, because they will get the silly notion that they can actually protest, instead of meekly accepting what ever the gov't tells them for fear of being arrested.
Cubans don't get murdered for challinging the ruling powers as in some other countries, and there are even opposition newspapers.
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Most of the Guyanese in Cuba are studying medicine or engineering. Give me ONE reason why they would want to stay in Cuba.
they can't. But clearly education is better in Cuba than in your home country, how many Cubans exactly study in Guyana, and how many Guyanese doctors work in Cuba?
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A very high % of the doctors in Guyana are Cuban, and they seem to love Guyanese women.
They love all women, Cubans are womanisers. Do you really think they want to stay in a country where 40% of the population doesn't even have electricity? The us, Europe, or Canada, yes. (altough I have a Cuban friend who recently returned from Italy back to Cuba, since business opportunities in Cuba are increasing, and Italy is going trough a severe economic crisis)
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Clearly Cuban women aren't ugly so it must be that marrying a Guyanese allows them to stay in Guyana. Most assuredly as poor as Guyana is it is miles ahead of Cuba the way that most Guyanese live.
not according to undp and other figures. According to undp figures Cuba is far ahead of Guyana and most neighbouring countries.
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And this is definitely true for college graduates. Those who don't like Guyana can pack their bags and leave.
So Guyanese can simply ask for a working permit in the us and leave? Somehow, I don't believe that.
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Now why cant Cubans who don't like living in Cuba leave without having to jump in car tires and risk being shot and killed by the Cuban coastguard?
Mexicans even risk dying of hunger and thirst in the desert to reach the us... and Mexico is quite ahead of Guyana in almost anything...
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Isn't it arrogant of you to have the freedom to roam the world, but yet have that right denied to Cubans?
Cubans can travel, but most don't have enough money to travel, and don't get the right to live in rich countries, unless they are invited by someone living there, as is the case in your homecountry, I'm pretty sure, and in most latin American countries.
The bottom line is that you have never been to Cuba. You accuse them of being poor while at the same time support the embargo against Cuba...
Anyhow I think Obama is going to loosen the embargo, his handshake with Raul at Mandela's funeral (by the way a good friend of the Castro's) was a good sign.
Still you can't deny the fact that blacks are generally much poorer, in worse health than whites in the us. They are overrepresented in jails.
it's nonsense, I never saw more race-mixed couples in Cuba than anywhere else in the world. OK, Cuban are not politically correct people, they call blacks "******s" and make racist comments, after which blacks will call "whites" (but in Cuba most whites are not really white) names. Then they will have a drink together or chase women together. All schools, hospitals, and other workplaces are mixed troughout the country, except in Santiago where most people are black. They girlfriend, who looks African, has a "white" grandmother. In a few generations there won't be any blacks or whites left in Cuba, everyone will be halfcast. In the us, after many generations, blacks still marry mostly blacks and whites whites, so segregation. Obama's father was no African-American, and he was raised by his white family.
If people from poor countries could make it to the us or Europe, most of the population of these countries would go, that's why the us build a large wall to stop migrants. How many Guyanese would stay in Guyana if all of them were offered the opportunity to live and work in the us?
Suriname people were offered the opportunity to live in the Netherlands, nowadays more Suriname people live in the Netherlands than in Suriname...
500$ a month is the average salary in many countries around the world, in many even much less. Also Cuban doctors don't pay for daily expenses such as accomodation or healthcare.
almost all of them come from the elite, in countries like Dominican republic, which is most comparable to Cuba in terms of culture and (pre-revolution) history.
So now you compare Cuba to some tiny islands with only a few 1000 inhabitants that are paradises for billionaires evading to pay taxes in their home country? You can compare Cuba to islands of similar extent, with a similar population and with a similar economic situation before the revolution.
Maids in Barbados make US$500 a month that's why Barbadians DO NOT want that job. Trained high school teachers in Barbados make around US$2,000. I can assure you that Bajan doctors make way more than that.
And indeed its only the Cuban doctors lucky to be sent overseas who make $500. The ones who stay in Cuba make $50 (FIFTY). if so much. No wonder they scramble to be given these assignments!
And at those rates no wonder these islands don't train more of their own doctors as the $1,000 is much cheaper than a local doctor would demand.
What prevents Guyanese from leaving isn't the govt of Guyana. Its the immigration policies of the USA, Canada and the Caribbean nations.
Given that Cubans have free right of entry into the USA, the only thing stopping them is Castro, so he needs to get his goons to shoot at those who try to flee, out of fear that if he didn't Cuba would be EMPTY! The spectacle of so many Cubans fleeing the glorious REVOLUTION for the "evil" USA and the "decadent" Bahamas, Cayman Islands and Jamaica is too embarrassing for the two geriatrics.
Yes its true that blacks in the USA are poorer and more likely to be in jail, but then the same goes for Cuba. So what's your point?
Blacks in Cuba are routinely harassed by the cops especially if they don't have their ID. Black tourists entering THEIR hotel have also been harassed until they were able to provide evidence that they were actually staying there.
So what if there is a lot of interracial mixing. The fact remains that blacks are a despised group in Cuba and there is too much evidence to say otherwise. Just look at the composition of the Cuban leadership. Almost exclusively white men in a nation where most people are mixed.
You know what in the USA we are allowed to protest against racism so conditions have improved greatly over the past 50 years. In Cuba things have remained the way that they always were because if blacks protest their treatment they are damned as "counter-revolutionary". Blacks occupy the worst jobs, many are now unemployed and they live in the worst neighborhoods. We have all seen parts of Havana (the bad parts) where you would think that you are in Kingston Jamaica, based on the fact that almost every one is dark skinned black. Indeed white Cuban ELITES even call the blacks from Oriente who fled their poverty in that region to live in Cuba "Palestinians" and consider them "anti-social" derelicts who need to be sent back.
Indeed one of the shocks that white Cubans encounter when they go to islands like Jamaica is that when they bring their rudeness they get put in their place. These white Cubans, not being accustomed to this, then damn the Jamaicans as racist because they don't accept their place as inferiors to whites.
And so what if blacks in the USA mainly marry other blacks. Is it a mark of progress if they marry non blacks? People have a right to chose who they marry, and it is their own business when they make that decision.
DR is another favorite of yours, and I note our excuse about Barbados which as an HDI comparable to Cuba, and yet has done so while not keeping their people in a jail run by two geriatrics. And which was a poorer nation in 1958 using indices like caloric consumption and infant mortality rates. Small nations have fewer resources and so have a harder time existing in this cut throat global environment. Do you think it is easy for a nation like St Kitts Nevis with a scant 50,000 to survive. NO!!! Because what ever they try to produce can be done more cheaply any where else because there are no economies of scale.
So Cuba, a large island with a huge population, and ample natural resources, has numerous advantages, but those two white geriatric monsters have destroyed the island.
By the way I posted links to statistics that would have shown that in the 1950s Cuba had LOWER infant mortality rates than most Latin nations. These being UN statistics and therefore no less credible than their current HDI numbers. And you ignored them.
They are not living in the Us because the economy of guyana is booming, right?
Well at least they can study in Cuba, which is better than no education, and clearly they prefer Cuba over their own universities... Also, I don't think that the 40% Guyanese who don't even have electricity in their houses (see above, wikipedia) have the money to pay for education in Cuba or even just an airplane ticket... So the rich study in the West, the poor stay home and the middle class likes to study in Cuba.
Well, you never lived in the ussr, all you know about USSR are the lies in american media, which are as far from the truth as possible.
(or do you really believe the us press in not biased?)
I lived in the Soviet-Union, and as opinion polls show I'm not the only one who liked it...
Cuban and foreign students are hosted in the same university dormitories and eat the same food.
Cubans don't get murdered for challinging the ruling powers as in some other countries, and there are even opposition newspapers.
they can't. But clearly education is better in Cuba than in your home country, how many Cubans exactly study in Guyana, and how many Guyanese doctors work in Cuba?
They love all women, Cubans are womanisers. Do you really think they want to stay in a country where 40% of the population doesn't even have electricity? The us, Europe, or Canada, yes. (altough I have a Cuban friend who recently returned from Italy back to Cuba, since business opportunities in Cuba are increasing, and Italy is going trough a severe economic crisis)
not according to undp and other figures. According to undp figures Cuba is far ahead of Guyana and most neighbouring countries.
So Guyanese can simply ask for a working permit in the us and leave? Somehow, I don't believe that.
Mexicans even risk dying of hunger and thirst in the desert to reach the us... and Mexico is quite ahead of Guyana in almost anything...
Cubans can travel, but most don't have enough money to travel, and don't get the right to live in rich countries, unless they are invited by someone living there, as is the case in your homecountry, I'm pretty sure, and in most latin American countries.
The bottom line is that you have never been to Cuba. You accuse them of being poor while at the same time support the embargo against Cuba...
Anyhow I think Obama is going to loosen the embargo, his handshake with Raul at Mandela's funeral (by the way a good friend of the Castro's) was a good sign.
I am not going to defend Guyana on anything. After all Guyana was destroyed by another Castro loving thug called Forbes Burnham. The ones who replaced his govt include people who were trained at the Patrice Lumumba University, which ought to be familiar to you. They evolved as Russia evolved and now operate like Putin. Extreme corruption. So on the basis of that Guyana is the most ruined nation in the English speaking Caribbean.
By the way most of these current leaders in Guyana came from such poor backgrounds that many didn't even know how to use a knife and fork. So much for your notion that leaders in the Caribbean are from the elite. And ironic given that Castro and most of his cronies came from wealthy and highly privileged backgrounds and are WHITE in a nation where most aren't.
Yet despite that Cuban doctors in Guyana MARRY Guyanese (not just have sex with them) in order to STAY in Guyana. You see doctors live quite comfortably in Guyana. Indeed there was even one Cuban doctor who got married to a Guyanese woman after his contract had ended, and so he was supposed to have returned to Cuba. The man begged to stay in Guyana.
So most assuredly the dalliances with Guyanese women isn't because they just love women. They want to be able to stay in Guyana instead of returning.
Now lets look at Caribbean nations which didn't adopt the flawed nation that the state must run every thing and that the private sector must be destroyed, along with opposition parties. Trinidad % Tobago 99% access to electricity. Barbados ditto. And this goes for almost all. Even impoverished Jamaica is at 92%. And yes Mr. communist Cubans live in ALL of these countries.
You will note that Guyanese and Jamaicans flock every where in the Caribbean, but Haiti, Cuba and the DR just don't interest them. With Jamaica a mere 90 miles from Cuba that's weird. Jamaicans fly to Cuba to have sex though.
Now as to the students. The University of the West Indies and the other colleges don't have the capacity to educate all the doctors, engineers and others who are needed. The best and the brightest go to those entities, or if they can afford it, or if they get scholarships, attend universities in North America and the UK. The only problem being that many who get scholarships to North America and the UK fail to return to the Caribbean.
The people who go to Cuba get scholarships on the basis of the work experience as most few of them aren't in the normal 18-19 college entry age. They come from poorer families usually.
No Mr. communist middle class people don't go to Cuba and I know this because my sister was offered a scholarship to study medicine there, but on the advise of our father went to Jamaica instead. She now lives in the UK. The Guyanese who studied medicine in Cuba are stuck there.
This is why Cuba is favored for scholarship purposes. First the students will return as harsh living conditions for professionals, in addition to the fact that Cuba is a racist country, ensure that they will return home. And once back home it is harder for them to migrate as their degrees aren't recognized.
Now given our experience with Cuban style incompetence under Forbes Burnham there is absolutely NO WAY that most Guyanese will tolerate Cuban style governance in Guyana. We know what that leads to.
The notion that there is freedom of speech in Cuba is laughable, or that opposition papers are allowed to freely circulate is a joke. Bet you nobody is going to be seen in public reading any of those.
And yes for a Cuba to travel they must get permission by the Cuban govt to do so. This in addition to getting visas for the countries which they wish to visit. Which is why so many leave in rafts and have to fear being detected by the Cuban coast guard when they attempt to flee. Many of these people who flee have relatives in the USA who would happily vouch for them and even pay their airfare, so don't chat nonsense that the refugees who seek to flee do so when they can easily board a plane.
You see Mr. Communist as hard as life might be in Guyana (and for educated people it is better than it is in Cuba...just see how choked with vehicles the streets of Georgetown are) if they cant stand it, and can get a visa NO ONE stops them. And they don't have to ask permission to leave on vacation.
You see the 400,000 Guyanese who live in North America arrived in planes and passed through US immigration, not floating up dehydrated on a car tire onto some Florida, Cayman, Bahamas or Jamaica beach.
Last edited by caribny; 12-27-2013 at 05:08 PM..
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