Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maids in Barbados make US$500 a month that's why Barbadians DO NOT want that job. Trained high school teachers in Barbados make around US$2,000. I can assure you that Bajan doctors make way more than that.
Barbados is one of these tiny islands were billionaires like to live, Rihana is from Barbados, right?
Quote:
And indeed its only the Cuban doctors lucky to be sent overseas who make $500. The ones who stay in Cuba make $50 (FIFTY). if so much. No wonder they scramble to be given these assignments!
They are making more money than in Cuba, that's for sure.
Quote:
And at those rates no wonder these islands don't train more of their own doctors as the $1,000 is much cheaper than a local doctor would demand.
It's a buyers' market. In Cuba there are many trained doctors, because education is available and free. That's not the case in many other countries.
Quote:
What prevents Guyanese from leaving isn't the govt of Guyana. Its the immigration policies of the USA, Canada and the Caribbean nations
And that's the difference between Guyana, Mexico, etc. and Cuba. For ideological reasons Cubans wille not be send back.
Quote:
Given that Cubans have free right of entry into the USA, the only thing stopping them is Castro, so he needs to get his goons to shooy.t at those who try to flee, out of fear that if he didn't Cuba would be EMPTY!
If Mexicans, Dominicans, etc. would get the right to live in the us and stay there, the whole of Latin America would be empty
Quote:
Yes its true that blacks in the USA are poorer and more likely to be in jail, but then the same goes for Cuba. So what's your point?
But I think the difference is larger than in Cuba. Many or most of the doctors for example we talked about are black or mixed. How many doctors in the us are black?
Quote:
Blacks in Cuba are routinely harassed by the cops especially if they don't have their ID. Black tourists entering THEIR hotel have also been harassed until they were able to provide evidence that they were actually staying there.
The cops think they are Cubans. When I went with my kenyan friend he wwas asked for papers several times. When they saw he was a foreigner, they apologised. Cubans are not harassed, unless the police notice they hang out with different kind of tourists. Than the police suspects they might be jineteros or prostitutes.
Quote:
So what if there is a lot of interracial mixing. The fact remains that blacks are a despised group in Cuba and there is too much evidence to say otherwise. Just look at the composition of the Cuban leadership. Almost exclusively white men in a nation where most people are mixed.
It's true that the upper echelons of the communist party are mostly white, but if you look at to the lower ranks most are black or mixed.
You know what in the USA we are allowed to protest against racism so conditions have improved greatly over the past 50 years.
Yes but Cuba abolished all racial laws in the early 60's when in the us they were still in place.
Quote:
In Cuba things have remained the way that they always were because if blacks protest their treatment they are damned as "counter-revolutionary". Blacks occupy the worst jobs, many are now unemployed and they live in the worst neighborhoods.
In Cuba there has been a policy of positive discrimination, as in the us. Nowadays you can find that the percentage of blacks studying in universities is comparable to the percentage of blacks living in Cuba. I think that's not really the case in the us...
Quote:
We have all seen parts of Havana (the bad parts) where you would think that you are in Kingston Jamaica, based on the fact that almost every one is dark skinned black.
There are no barrio's in Havana where everyone is black. All of Havana is mixed. In Santiago you can find areas with very little whites, since Santiago is mostly a black city.
I remember going to New York. In the Bronx I was the only white around, and people were calling me names. No such thing in Cuba. Most of Cuba whites of Spanish descent, blacks and everything in between share the same neighbourhoods and the same apartments.
Quote:
Indeed white Cuban ELITES even call the blacks from Oriente who fled their poverty in that region to live in Cuba "Palestinians" and consider them "anti-social" derelicts who need to be sent back.
probably you are talking about Miami-Cubans, who fled Cuba long ago and many are white and racist, they belong to the elite ruling Cuba untill the 50's. I have never heard that in Cuba.
Quote:
Indeed one of the shocks that white Cubans encounter when they go to islands like Jamaica is that when they bring their rudeness they get put in their place. These white Cubans, not being accustomed to this, then damn the Jamaicans as racist because they don't accept their place as inferiors to whites.
Cubans are just not politically correct, racial jokes are made frequently, also among friends of difference race. (which is very common in Cuba, unlike for example the us...). I used to call my girlfriend "lasy ******", she called me milkface... no big deal, if you can laugh about differences it means there is no issue. In the us racial jokes are taboo, because race is very much an issue. (yesterday saw a documentory about American prisons on national geographic...)
Quote:
And so what if blacks in the USA mainly marry other blacks. Is it a mark of progress if they marry non blacks? People have a right to chose who they marry, and it is their own business when they make that decision.
It means in reality there is still segregation, it means whites don't really like to be involved with black people, and vice versa. If you marry or date a black, as a white, in the us you're an exception and considered alternative and strange. In Cuba that's very common, in fact most families in Cuba are racially mixed. This means that Cuba is a lot less racist than the us, despite the jokes. How can you be racist if you marry or date a black?
Quote:
DR is another favorite of yours
DR people resemble Cubans, even their accent is the same. Even for me who lived in Cuba it's not always possible to see or hear the difference at first.
Quote:
, and I note our excuse about Barbados which as an HDI comparable to Cuba, and yet has done so while not keeping their people in a jail run by two geriatrics.
again, it's more easy to run a nation of 100000 people than running a nation of 10 million, while being boycotted by the largest economy in the world and hegemon in the region.
Quote:
So Cuba, a large island with a huge population, and ample natural resources, has numerous advantages, but those two white geriatric monsters have destroyed the island.
Cuba is not destroyed, the hdi is better than in most neighbouring countries, and the fact that students from all over the world attend their universities, and that Cuban doctors are desired in many countries over the world, means something.
It's still quite poor, Cuba could be doing much better if the us would abolish their outdated embargo. (and please don't say it's because of dictatorship, the us has a long history of bringing to power dictators in the region and the world)
Quote:
By the way I posted links to statistics that would have shown that in the 1950s Cuba had LOWER infant mortality rates than most Latin nations. These being UN statistics and therefore no less credible than their current HDI numbers. And you ignored them.
Still living conditions before the revolution were comparable to Guatemala, Ecuador, etc. as I proved with statistics. Some Cuban Americans want to believe that before the revolution Cuba was a developped country like the us. It was not, as I proved.
Barbados is one of these tiny islands were billionaires like to live, Rihana is from Barbados, right?
They are making more money than in Cuba, that's for sure.
It's a buyers' market. In Cuba there are many trained doctors, because education is available and free. That's not the case in many other countries.
And that's the difference between Guyana, Mexico, etc. and Cuba. For ideological reasons Cubans wille not be send back.
If Mexicans, Dominicans, etc. would get the right to live in the us and stay there, the whole of Latin America would be empty
But I think the difference is larger than in Cuba. Many or most of the doctors for example we talked about are black or mixed. How many doctors in the us are black?
The cops think they are Cubans. When I went with my kenyan friend he wwas asked for papers several times. When they saw he was a foreigner, they apologised. Cubans are not harassed, unless the police notice they hang out with different kind of tourists. Than the police suspects they might be jineteros or prostitutes.
It's true that the upper echelons of the communist party are mostly white, but if you look at to the lower ranks most are black or mixed.
Yes but Cuba abolished all racial laws in the early 60's when in the us they were still in place.
In Cuba there has been a policy of positive discrimination, as in the us. Nowadays you can find that the percentage of blacks studying in universities is comparable to the percentage of blacks living in Cuba. I think that's not really the case in the us...
There are no barrio's in Havana where everyone is black. All of Havana is mixed. In Santiago you can find areas with very little whites, since Santiago is mostly a black city.
I remember going to New York. In the Bronx I was the only white around, and people were calling me names. No such thing in Cuba. Most of Cuba whites of Spanish descent, blacks and everything in between share the same neighbourhoods and the same apartments.
probably you are talking about Miami-Cubans, who fled Cuba long ago and many are white and racist, they belong to the elite ruling Cuba untill the 50's. I have never heard that in Cuba.
Cubans are just not politically correct, racial jokes are made frequently, also among friends of difference race. (which is very common in Cuba, unlike for example the us...). I used to call my girlfriend "lasy ******", she called me milkface... no big deal, if you can laugh about differences it means there is no issue. In the us racial jokes are taboo, because race is very much an issue. (yesterday saw a documentory about American prisons on national geographic...)
It means in reality there is still segregation, it means whites don't really like to be involved with black people, and vice versa. If you marry or date a black, as a white, in the us you're an exception and considered alternative and strange. In Cuba that's very common, in fact most families in Cuba are racially mixed. This means that Cuba is a lot less racist than the us, despite the jokes. How can you be racist if you marry or date a black?
DR people resemble Cubans, even their accent is the same. Even for me who lived in Cuba it's not always possible to see or hear the difference at first.
again, it's more easy to run a nation of 100000 people than running a nation of 10 million, while being boycotted by the largest economy in the world and hegemon in the region.
Cuba is not destroyed, the hdi is better than in most neighbouring countries, and the fact that students from all over the world attend their universities, and that Cuban doctors are desired in many countries over the world, means something.
It's still quite poor, Cuba could be doing much better if the us would abolish their outdated embargo. (and please don't say it's because of dictatorship, the us has a long history of bringing to power dictators in the region and the world)
Still living conditions before the revolution were comparable to Guatemala, Ecuador, etc. as I proved with statistics. Some Cuban Americans want to believe that before the revolution Cuba was a developped country like the us. It was not, as I proved.
All you are saying that in Cuba blacks mix with whites. Well they do so in Brazil too, and yet it is obvious that racism exists in Brazil and that many black Brazilians are fighting against its impact.
So why is Cuba's leadership all white if it is this bastion of color blindness? Why are blacks under represented in the best paying sectors, and more likely to live in its poorest areas. Like those places which the Cuban govt is ashamed to show foreigners because the people live in conditions as bad or worse than in Brazil's favelas. Why are they in the lower ranks?
RACISM!!!
Cuba is as racist as the USA, even more so because at least here we can protest racism. In Cuba they can't though they wish that they can.
And one thing for sure. The jails in BOTH Cuba and the USA are packed with blacks, but we would claim to have racial issues, so clearly Cuba does as well.
I can assure you that black people in the USA will rather living in nice homes than in hovels if all they get from doing that is mixing with white people. And yes many blacks in the USA, including black Cubans who have fled Castro, live in nice homes.
DO YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE SO PRECIOUS THAT MIXING WITH YOU IS SUCH A TREAT?
The exiles who wish to prove that Cuba was developed are just as foolish as people like you who want to claim that Cuba, a country with a large urban economy, a fairly advanced manufacturing base, a unionized labor force, a large middle class, and a diverse economy was as backward as Guatemala, where the population in 1958 consisted mainly of landless and illiterate peasantry living under feudal conditions.
Both of you are wrong.
Why should the USA end its embargo. Isn't the USA the Evil Satan which Castro is "saving" CUbans from. Indeed people like you love to rant how the USA is exploiting every one. So the embargo is "saving" Cuba from the rampage of the USA. So they are better off.
In any case Cuba trades with Europe, Latin America, Canada, and Asia so why do they need the USA?
I will use infant mortality rates to gauge what the standard of living was. It measures living conditions for the average person (the level of the diet and hygiene), and it also measures how effective medical services were. So the average rates between 1955/60 were Spain 51, Argentina, 59, Cuba 70, Barbados 72, Portugal 89, Brazil 122, Guatemala, 134, Dominican Rep 139. For the Latin America/Caribbean region the average was 113.
Infant mortality rates are a very important component of the HDI, so Cuba in the late 50s would have had a high HDI relative to most of Latin America.
Per capita income doesn't measure income distribution, or the standard of physical and social infrastructure available to the populations.
So using infant mortality rates as a gauge one can show that Cuba was better off than most Latin American countries. Note that one of the criticisms of the Batista era was that the poor, especially in the rural areas, were neglected. Even given that fact Cuba looks good. Note that it is even better than Portugal, and is closer to Spain/Argentina than to your average Latin American/Caribbean nation.
This is in line with most commentary of the period which suggested that Cubans were better off than most other Latin/Caribbean people, and not that much worse off than even some European nations in the 1955/60 periods.
Don't know what millionaires living in Barbados have to do with anything. Barbados, an island with beaches only, has developed a very high standard of living, maybe even higher than Russia's. They did so without making it a dictatorship. They never had the type of financial support from any nation that Cuba used to get from the USSR. They have almost free education and healthcare. You could visit Barbados and find that things work as well as they do in the USA, UK, etc., and there isn't extreme poverty to any degree.
So why not compare Cuba with Barbados instead of Guatemala? Guatemala is one of the poorest countries in Latin America, so even if Cuba looks good compared to them, that really doesn't say much. Costa Rica and Panama are way ahead.
Also you don't seem to understand that what limits migration of other people in the Americas is whether or not they will be admitted by the USA. The reasons why Mexicans starve in the desert is to avoid detection by the US authorities. If all they had to do was to arrive in the USA, as is the case for Cubans, they would just drive over the border to San Diego, because NO ONE is stopping them in Mexico.
Cubans are the ONLY people who have free entry in the USA so the only thing which is stopping them are very strict restrictions on their departure by the Castro regime. Indeed were they none of those restriction Cuba would be empty as it is clear to see that the Cubans who left in 1979 and after (the Marielitos and the Balseros) are doing much better in the USA than they are in Cuba.
Of course govts like to send their students to Cuba. After all if they send them to the USA NONE will return. To Cuba ALL RETURN. And which govt wouldn't prefer Cubans doctors who they can pay much less than they will pay the locals. Indeed Cuban doctors in these countries earn only slightly more than the local NURSES, even factoring in the portion that the Cuban govt gets. The issue is not that these countries don't train doctors. Its that the ones who they train end up in the USA, and the ones who remain behind refuse to treat poor people, because they can make more money elsewhere. So Cuban doctors come in. Not because Cuba is generous, but because it is broke and is pimping its doctors and nurses to earn hard currency.
So tell me if a Cuban doctor wished to migrate to the USA, after serving Cuba for 10 years will he be allowed to do so. NO! Castro doesn't mind if the little old ladies go, but not people who he can pimp to Brazil.
Havana is in ruins and the Cuban economy is shot, even though there are scores of countries with which they can export, attract foreign investment, and invite tourists.
If the USA is so evil and capitalism so flawed than why would it be a life and death situation for Cuba to trade with them?
You have a special style of debating, you continue ranting about some things I say, but not specifically as I do, and ignore other things.
Quote:
All you are saying that in Cuba blacks mix with whites. For Well they do so in Brazil too, and yet it is obvious that racism exists in Brazil and that many black Brazilians are fighting against its impact.
Racism exists everywhere, against every race. example in Kenya, where I live most of the times these days, "whites" pay more for everything. There's also such a thing as black racism against white people. But in Brazil and Cuba there is no strict separation between races as in US prisons. Is also not possible, because unlike in the us, it's hard to tell who's white and who'se black. There is also no racist "one drop rule". Pëople who have mixed ancestry are not considered black.
Quote:
So why is Cuba's leadership all white if it is this bastion of color blindness?
It is not all white, before your write nonsense, do some propper research. Juan Esteban Lazo Hernandez for example is vice-president, president of congress and member of the Politbureau of the communist party, where all important decisions are taken. He is the second most powerfull man after Raul Castro, likely to succeed him. He is black.
Quote:
Why are blacks under represented in the best paying sectors, and more likely to live in its poorest areas. Like those places which the Cuban govt is ashamed to show foreigners because the people live in conditions as bad or worse than in Brazil's favelas. Why are they in the lower ranks?
you mean chicharrones, where I lived? Most people there are black, as in the whole of Santiago, but it is not as bad as Brazil's favelas. For example there is little crime, everyone has electricity, enough to eat, goes to school, etc.
Blacks are comparatively worse off, as in most countries all over the world. Historic circumstances and slavery take time to be overcome. Not only speaking about socio-economic circumstances, but also mentality.
Quote:
RACISM!!!
Cuba is as racist as the USA, even more so because at least here we can protest racism. In Cuba they can't though they wish that they can.
They can too. Cuba's newspapers are full of racial issues, and regurarly journalists and writers question racial policy of the state. This is possible.
Quote:
And one thing for sure. The jails in BOTH Cuba and the USA are packed with blacks, but we would claim to have racial issues, so clearly Cuba does as well.
But in the US only 10% of the population is black, yet the majority of the jail inmates is black.
Quote:
I can assure you that black people in the USA will rather living in nice homes than in hovels if all they get from doing that is mixing with white people. And yes many blacks in the USA, including black Cubans who have fled Castro, live in nice homes.
Some surely live in nice homes, but many are living in ghetto's.
And you still didn't explain to me why blacks and whites never mixed as in other countries. Why is that, if the us not not more racist than these other countries(for example Brazil or Cuba)?
Quote:
DO YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE SO PRECIOUS THAT MIXING WITH YOU IS SUCH A TREAT?
that's a BS argument and you know it. How is it possible that blacks and whites mixed in other countries but not in the us? most blacks marry blacks, most whites marry whites. Why, if it isn't racism?
Quote:
The exiles who wish to prove that Cuba was developed are just as foolish as people like you who want to claim that Cuba, a country with a large urban economy, a fairly advanced manufacturing base, a unionized labor force, a large middle class, and a diverse economy was as backward as Guatemala, where the population in 1958 consisted mainly of landless and illiterate peasantry living under feudal conditions.
GDP per capita was the same as Guatemala before the revolution, as I proved with reliable statistics.
So maybe Cuba was not so developped after all?
Quote:
Why should the USA end its embargo. Isn't the USA the Evil Satan which Castro is "saving" CUbans from. Indeed people like you love to rant how the USA is exploiting every one. So the embargo is "saving" Cuba from the rampage of the USA. So they are better off.
It doesn't have to end the embargo if it wants to be seen as the regional bully and imperialist power, that's the why most latin Americans look at the us right now. And by the way by doing so the us is aiding Castro. Now he can blame everything going wrong in Cuba on the American embargo.
However the US has been condemned by the world trade organisation for this embargo, and also europe and even your close neighbour Canada complained about it. In the land of the free, Americans who want to visit Cuba as a tourist get punished. Probably the us is afraid Cuba will get prosperous, and become an example for other countries.
Quote:
In any case Cuba trades with Europe, Latin America, Canada, and Asia so why do they need the USA?
Cuba it is their neighbour and the most important economy in the region and the world. So of course this embagro harmed Cuba's economy.
Quote:
I will use infant mortality rates to gauge what the standard of living was. It measures living conditions for the average person (the level of the diet and hygiene), and it also measures how effective medical services were. So the average rates between 1955/60 were Spain 51, Argentina, 59, Cuba 70, Barbados 72, Portugal 89, Brazil 122, Guatemala, 134, Dominican Rep 139. For the Latin America/Caribbean region the average was 113.
First of all how reliable are these figures, what is the source? And second, infant mortality rates prove how developped the health care system was, it doesn't say much about other indicators. Which is still the case by the way. Cubans live long and are healthy, but it doesn't mean it's a rich country with high living standards.
Quote:
This is in line with most commentary of the period which suggested that Cubans were better off than most other Latin/Caribbean people, and not that much worse off than even some European nations in the 1955/60 periods.
GDP per capita proves different, as well as many other indicators.
Quote:
Don't know what millionaires living in Barbados have to do with anything. Barbados, an island with beaches only, has developed a very high standard of living, maybe even higher than Russia's. They did so without making it a dictatorship. They never had the type of financial support from any nation that Cuba used to get from the USSR. They have almost free education and healthcare. You could visit Barbados and find that things work as well as they do in the USA, UK, etc., and there isn't extreme poverty to any degree.
it's a small island with a small population and lots of very rich people visiting the island as tourists or living there. So that makes it much more easy to develop than in countries with big populations without many resources, such as Cuba, DR or Haiti.
Quote:
So why not compare Cuba with Barbados instead of Guatemala? Guatemala is one of the poorest countries in Latin America, so even if Cuba looks good compared to them, that really doesn't say much. Costa Rica and Panama are way ahead.
Cuba is better than DR, Haiti and all the other real countries (sorry but an island of hardly as many inhabitants as in Vatican city is not a real country according to me) in the area, except for the us, maybe Mexico, and Costa Rica. Cuba's HDI is higher than Panama's.
Quote:
Also you don't seem to understand that what limits migration of other people in the Americas is whether or not they will be admitted by the USA. The reasons why Mexicans starve in the desert is to avoid detection by the US authorities. If all they had to do was to arrive in the USA, as is the case for Cubans, they would just drive over the border to San Diego, because NO ONE is stopping them in Mexico.
exactly, now tell me why are Cubans allowed to stay in the US and other latin american nations not, why this discrimination?
You agreed that most of latin America would be empty if they would all be allowed to come to the us.
Quote:
Cubans are the ONLY people who have free entry in the USA so the only thing which is stopping them are very strict restrictions on their departure by the Castro regime. Indeed were they none of those restriction Cuba would be empty as it is clear to see that the Cubans who left in 1979 and after (the Marielitos and the Balseros) are doing much better in the USA than they are in Cuba.
of course some Cubans want higher salaries and live in a richer country, as do most latin Americans.
Quote:
Of course govts like to send their students to Cuba. After all if they send them to the USA NONE will return. To Cuba ALL RETURN.
They send them to Cuba because American universities are too expensive and they don't get a study visa easily. But they also send them to Cuba because education in Cuba is better than in their own country.
Quote:
And which govt wouldn't prefer Cubans doctors who they can pay much less than they will pay the locals.
Cuban doctors are more expensive than local doctors in most countries. However Cuban doctors are better educated and trained than the local doctors in most countries (for example Bolivia, etc.)
Quote:
Indeed Cuban doctors in these countries earn only slightly more than the local NURSES, even factoring in the portion that the Cuban govt gets.
Nurses don't gain 1000$ a month in most countries. In Brazil they get paid about 500$, in Mexico something like 600$, in most other latin countries (DR, Guatemala, Colombia, etc.) much less.
Quote:
The issue is not that these countries don't train doctors. Its that the ones who they train end up in the USA, and the ones who remain behind refuse to treat poor people, because they can make more money elsewhere.
This is indeed the case, and it's a wicked system. it's called "brain drain". The worst stay, and as you say they are not prepared to threat the poor.
Quote:
So Cuban doctors come in. Not because Cuba is generous, but because it is broke and is pimping its doctors and nurses to earn hard currency.
But at least Cuban doctors are send to areas where usually no doctors come. By doing so they save a lot of lifes. In the most capitalist countries, the poor are left to rot.
Quote:
So tell me if a Cuban doctor wished to migrate to the USA, after serving Cuba for 10 years will he be allowed to do so. NO! Castro doesn't mind if the little old ladies go, but not people who he can pimp to Brazil.
Cuba doesn't want brain drain to affect their country. They payed for the education of their doctors so it would not be fair if they all moved to the us to make more money.
Quote:
Havana is in ruins and the Cuban economy is shot, even though there are scores of countries with which they can export, attract foreign investment, and invite tourists.
Havana is not in ruins, Havana vieja has been completely renovated, as is the malecon, now they are buisy renovating Miramar and Centro Havana, soon areas like diez de octubre will follow.
Quote:
If the USA is so evil and capitalism so flawed than why would it be a life and death situation for Cuba to trade with them?
[/quote]
Since it's the biggest economy of the world and region. Blocking trade obviously hurts the Cuban economy, and that's the purpose of this wicked embargo..
On the other hand it also blocks American influences and is the reason why some countries, like the Soviet-Union and now Venezuela and China, aide Cuba. Brazilian state telecom company is going to invest heavily in telecommunication, despite american threats.
Putin too visited Cuba recently, he wants to reopen a military base there. He is most welcome, unless Americans stop their evil policy of trying to strangle the Cuban economy, which has been condemned by the whole of Latin America.
Nurses in Barbados make more than $1000/month. Trinidad maybe even more. Double what a Cuban doctor makes outside of Cuba, and indeed even you admit that the local nurses make more than the Cuban doctors. So what do you think that the doctors makes. Clearly thousands of dollars.
Talking about brain drain. When the Cuba doctor's time is up, how many who are unmarried do you think will not try to stay knowing that the $500 that they make is way more than what they make in Cuba, and local doctors make way more than that. I can tell you that in Guyana at least 1/3 of the LOCAL registered doctors are Cuban, these being RESIDENTS of Guyana, not on temporary contract. So what do you think will happen in richer countries?
I wonder how many people are being forced on the street by those innovations that you boast of.
So if the USA ends the embargo and US corporations enter and use their economic muscle to completely transform Cuba, as they have much of Latin America, what will be your belly ache then? Evil US imperialists bully poor little Cuba?
The USA is about maximizing profit. This is how they operate. If one doesn't like it one shouldn't deal with them. Castro screamed at how evil the USA is? So why now does the future of Cuba so totally depend on this virulently and ruthlessly capitalist country?
And really. If Brazil was so resolute that the US embargo should end they are being very silent about this don't you think. How often does the issue of Cuba come up at the OAS? Have Latin American nations threatened to leave the OAS if Cuba isn't admitted? Most assuredly not. No Cuba raises the issue of the embargo at international forums, Latin American and Caribbean nations support it, so they can get their cheap Cuban doctors. End of story.
In fact Brazil and other nations do not have to compete against US firms for opportunities in Brazil, the reason behind their lackluster support for Cuba's rant against the embargo. Indeed it isn't the Brazil govt which is investing in Cuba. Its Brazilian investors. They want a return on their investment, and the Brazilian govt wants to ensure that they can do this. They don't care two hoots about the "damage" of the embargo.
What should bother you is that there is not ONE country in the Americas which has adopted Cuba's totalitarian system. All have democracies and it is conceivable that any gov't can be tossed out of power if the people decide that they should go.
The infant mortality states come from the United Nations. So if your HDI is credible, so are these stats. Even if I accept your pre capita stats as relevant it is a known fact that per capita income doesn't measure income distribution, or how effective the social and physical infrastructure is. Infant mortality rates are a better measure. If children aren't properly fed, are exposed to insanitary conditions, are born to unhealthy mothers, or weren't covered by proper pre and postal natal care they are more likely to die. So Cuba had an infant mortality rate (between 1955 and 1960) of 70, which was much closer to Argentina's 59 than it was to Guatemala's 134, and above the average rate in Latin America/Caribbean of 113. So no Cuba wasn't this desperately poor nation that you describe of being. If you picked up an economics text book you would know this. Indeed the reason why the HDI was developed as to allow a broader measure of the possible social and economic conditions within a nation than a simple measure of per capita income will.
It is worth noting that there are other nations in the Americas which approximate Cuba's literacy rates and also its infant mortality rates, without having high abortion rates (which reduce Cuba's infant mortality rates) and without imposing a draconian fascist state. Indeed Cuba deals with its brain drain by violently preventing its professionals from leaving. Other nations attempt to offer better pay and working conditions, and then leaves it up to the individual as to whether they still want to leave or not.
Why is it so important for blacks to get married to whites. Suppose they don't want to. Don't they have that right? Any way 25% of the black males in the USA who recently got married did so with non blacks. So if a black has this need to find a non black in the USA NOTHING is stopping them.
This seems to be the only reason that you seem able to raise to claim that racism isn't a major issue in Cuba. It appears to me that who one gets married to is PERSONAL. Whether one is hampered by one's race to attain socio-economic progress is not. In the USA blacks protest against the barriers that reduce those opportunities. in Cuba blacks aren't allowed to, despite what you might say.
Don't know where you got the idea that they don't get electricity in Brazil's favelas. They all have TVs so clearly they have electricity. And most likely not those infamous Cuban black outs either. Indeed your Santiago neighborhood probably looks pretty much like one in Salvador in Brazil.
You know what's funny is that you boast that Cuba doesn't have one drop as the USA has. Yes Cuba has a system where the more black you are the worse you are seen as being. In Cuba white is best, then light mulato, than dark mulato, then at the bottom is black. So what's there to boast about? No wonder so many blacks rush to "advance the race" (yes I have heard that term which is much used in Cuba) to ensure that their offspring get a better deal.
Your theory doesn't fundamentally change the fact that Cuba s a racist country that practices the same hypocrisy which is prevalent all over Latin America, regardless as to the ideology of the elites.
You mention ONE black who might replace Raul. Well we have one black who won TWO elections in the USA. Obama. If you think that Obama is a stooge because you hate the USA, then many will consider Lazo Hernandez a stooge as well. So apparently the USA beat Cuba if you are looking to imply that ONE black at the top means that the problem has been solved.
So where are these others mulattos and blacks? Even you admit that the elites in Cuba are almost exclusively white. Yes the USA is 13% black. Cuba is at least 50% non white. Isn't it odd that in a nation which professes to be a paradise for blacks and mixed people continues to be run by a MINORITY white population? Note that 75% of the votes which Obama received came from non whites and he got more support from whites than Kerry, Clinton, or Gore did in their presidential campaigns.
If you go to Cuba's jail I challenge you to prove that the majority aren't non white, given that the majority of the poor are non white.
The issue isn't whether the USA is racist or not. It is. The issue is that we blacks in the USA are allowed to speak out on it. Cuban blacks aren't.
Indeed this is the nonsense which is rammed down their throats.
You know what's ironic is that in the 1950s, even though racism was obvious and some private clubs practiced segregation there was a decent sized black/brown middle class in Cuba. Indeed the 1953 census shows that 15% of the doctors were either mulatto or black, this when these groups accounted for 25% of the population. So its a fallacy to suggest that there was no black and brown middle class before 1958, so that Cuban blacks must feel a deep gratitude to Fidel.
In the USA 30% of black households have higher earnings than white households, and only 25% are poor. If one looks at black immigrants living in the USA the statistics get even better. Your average household headed by some one born in the English speaking Caribbean earns about 80% of what your average US BORN white household makes.
And yes this in a country where even 50% of the whites will admit still remains racist.
Now how many people in Cuba will admit that its still a fundamentally racist society where the darker one is the more difficult it is to attain upward mobility? I am talking about CONTEMPORAY racism, not some nonsense about slavery which ended more than 100 years ago in Cuba.
Mr. Communist do you really think that St Kitts Nevis, population 50,000, has as many opportunities to develop as Brazil with huge land space, packed with natural resources, able to realize economies of scale in industry and agriculture, de to its vast population? How much revenues can it generate from such a small population to fund and maintain its social and physical infrastructure (almost free health care)?
Then quit your nonsense where you excuse Cuba's backwardness relative to Barbados. If large size was a disadvantage then Brazil, China, Russia, Canada and the USA would be among the worlds poorest nations.
And because of this the Castro tyrant pretends to be interested in the race problem.
1. They take no responsibility for it even though they have had exclusive power with total domination of the media for 55 years and most Cubans were either born after then, or were small kids so their values and perspectives have been shaped by their experiences under the Castro fascist dictatorshop.
2. People like Darcy Ferrer are dangerous to this regime because he talks about widespread INSTITUTIONAL racism (there is only one institution in that nation....Fidel CASTRO) and about how average Cubans receive poor healthcare.
3. With powerful figures, including people who were once favorable to the Castro regime, former Black Panthers, the Cuban govt is in a frenzy trying to show their concern for black people. Of course every statement begins with "blacks have made more progress in Cuba than in any other country, even as nations like the Bahamas and Jamaica, where backs are well represented at all levels of society, are but a short plane trip away. They then proceed to claim that in the USA total segregation still exists. Evidently they fell asleep during the Civil Rights movement, and don't know that Obama, black men is President, and don't realize that all this happened due to the struggles of blacks, something that they deny Cuban blacks the opportunity to do.
BS video, not even Cubans, Cubans don't speak English you know, very few do.
Quote:
1. They take no responsibility for it even though they have had exclusive power with total domination of the media for 55 years and most Cubans were either born after then, or were small kids so their values and perspectives have been shaped by their experiences under the Castro fascist dictatorshop.
I've visited the US and lived in Cuba. Cuba is far less racist than the US I can assure you. The fact alone that there are many more mixed couples in Cuba is already an indicator... The second most powerful man in Cuba is a black, and there are many blacks in the communist party, as well as mulatos, triguenos, etc. . You have never been in Cuba yet you think you know Cuba, based on some BS biased websites and media.
Quote:
2. People like Darcy Ferrer are dangerous to this regime because he talks about widespread INSTITUTIONAL racism (there is only one institution in that nation....Fidel CASTRO) and about how average Cubans receive poor healthcare.
Who tf is Darcy Ferrer? He doesn't even have a wikpedia link, the only thing I came across on google was a porn star and this article. It shows his wife, which is white...
3. With powerful figures, including people who were once favorable to the Castro regime, former Black Panthers, the Cuban govt is in a frenzy trying to show their concern for black people.
As I proved, blacks are at very centre of Cuban power structure.
Quote:
Of course every statement begins with "blacks have made more progress in Cuba than in any other country, even as nations like the Bahamas and Jamaica, where backs are well represented at all levels of society, are but a short plane trip away.
In Bahamas or Jamaica nearly everyone is black, in Cuba most people are mixed, others are white, real blacks are a minority.
Quote:
They then proceed to claim that in the USA total segregation still exists. Evidently they fell asleep during the Civil Rights movement, and don't know that Obama, black men is President, and don't realize that all this happened due to the struggles of blacks, something that they deny Cuban blacks the opportunity to do.
Cubans didn't need a martin luther king, because the Cuban government abolished all racist laws well before Martin Luther king achieved their abolishment in the us. Cuba also, since the 60's, actively supported Mandela and the ANC, while the US suported the apartheid regime.
Blacks in Cuba don't need to struggle, since they have full equal rights, and the same opportunities to attend universities, enter politics, etc. In the US they need to struggle, since the white republicans in the south are racist, and there's a blossoming white power movement. No such thing in Cuba. Nazi's would soon be noticed, arrested and serve long prison sentences.
Nurses in Barbados make more than $1000/month. Trinidad maybe even more
again Barbados and Trinidad are not representative for the region. They are tiny, rich islands with a very small population, less than 1% of total Caraibian population. Cuba is the most populous Caraibian nation, next comes DR, than Haiti, than Jamaica.
Quote:
Talking about brain drain. When the Cuba doctor's time is up, how many who are unmarried do you think will not try to stay knowing that the $500 that they make is way more than what they make in Cuba, and local doctors make way more than that. I can tell you that in Guyana at least 1/3 of the LOCAL registered doctors are Cuban, these being RESIDENTS of Guyana, not on temporary contract. So what do you think will happen in richer countries?
The fact that Cuban doctors come to far away countries like Guyana means that education is much more accessible and better than in countries like Guyana. Really developped countries don't need Cuban doctors but have their own. Because the education in countries like Guyana is **** and way too expensive for the poor majority, is the reason Cuban doctors can make more money in Guyana.
By the way I'm an engineer, I can make more money in poor, third world countries like Kenya, Congo Brazzaville, Suriname or Guyana than in the Netherlands, where I used to work before, or russia obviously(since Russia is full of highly qualified engeneers). Because the education system in these countries is just a mess, qualified engineers are in high demand, the same about doctors.
Quote:
So if the USA ends the embargo and US corporations enter and use their economic muscle to completely transform Cuba, as they have much of Latin America, what will be your belly ache then? Evil US imperialists bully poor little Cuba?
They couldn't, because Cuban government will be in control. China also let in Western companies, but only on their own very strict terms, unlike submissive states where politicians can be easily bribed such as Philippines, Kenya, DR, etc.
Quote:
The USA is about maximizing profit. This is how they operate. If one doesn't like it one shouldn't deal with them. Castro screamed at how evil the USA is? So why now does the future of Cuba so totally depend on this virulently and ruthlessly capitalist country?
They want trade with the us, as long as it mutually benefits both countries, much like the trade between the us and China. For example, once Americans taste Havana club, they will prefere it over Bacardi as happened in Europe, and Cuba will make billions of profits. Unlike 60 years ago, the profits will not flow back to the us, but stay in Cuba. This money can be invested in the Cuban economy. Also milions of American tourists will visit Cuba, and it will certainly help the Cuba economy. It means Cuban salaries will be much higher, and Cuba will be a lot wealthier.
But that's exactly the reason Americans don't want to lift the embargo, than Cuba and its system will really look like an example to many countries in the region.
Quote:
And really. If Brazil was so resolute that the US embargo should end they are being very silent about this don't you think.
They are not, they have always condemned it, as do all other latin American countries, Canada and all European countries.
Quote:
How often does the issue of Cuba come up at the OAS? Have Latin American nations threatened to leave the OAS if Cuba isn't admitted? Most assuredly not.
The issue comes up a lot, but the us always refuses to discuss the matter.
Leaving the OAS would harm their interests.
Quote:
No Cuba raises the issue of the embargo at international forums, Latin American and Caribbean nations support it, so they can get their cheap Cuban doctors. End of story.
the whole world condemns the us embargo, as well as the Worl d trade organisation, and especially the helms-burton law. It is very harmfull for the us image in the region, and even American captains of industry complained that the US is loosing business there to China, Russia, Europe, Brazil, etc . But they can't force the us to change it laws.
Quote:
In fact Brazil and other nations do not have to compete against US firms for opportunities in Brazil, the reason behind their lackluster support for Cuba's rant against the embargo. Indeed it isn't the Brazil govt which is investing in Cuba. Its Brazilian investors. They want a return on their investment, and the Brazilian govt wants to ensure that they can do this. They don't care two hoots about the "damage" of the embargo.
As you know the Brazilian government is made up by leftists, with close links to Cuba, the current president used to be a communist guerilla fighter. The main investors are state companies. Of course also private Brazilian investors come to Cuba to make money.
Quote:
What should bother you is that there is not ONE country in the Americas which has adopted Cuba's totalitarian system. All have democracies and it is conceivable that any gov't can be tossed out of power if the people decide that they should go.
But in many or even most latin American countries people voted for leftist governments which want to copy at least parts of the Cuban economic system and are good friends of the castro's. In Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Uruguay, people voted for anti-American, leftist government who are nationalising whole parts of the economy.
These countries are sick and tired of capitalist pro-American politicians who ruled them for decades.
In Paraguay and Honduras the elected leftists were deposed by old fasioned military coups organised by the CIA.
Quote:
The infant mortality states come from the United Nations. So if your HDI is credible, so are these stats.
do you have a link?
Quote:
Even if I accept your pre capita stats as relevant it is a known fact that per capita income doesn't measure income distribution, or how effective the social and physical infrastructure is. Infant
As I also demonstrated, income was very unevenly distributed during the Batista regime.
Quote:
mortality rates are a better measure. If children aren't properly fed, are exposed to insanitary conditions, are born to unhealthy mothers, or weren't covered by proper pre and postal natal care they are more likely to die. So Cuba had an infant mortality rate (between 1955 and 1960) of 70, which was much closer to Argentina's 59 than it was to Guatemala's 134, and above the average rate in Latin America/Caribbean of 113. So no Cuba wasn't this desperately poor nation that you describe of being. If you picked up an economics text book you would know this. Indeed the reason why the HDI was developed as to allow a broader measure of the possible social and economic conditions within a nation than a simple measure of per capita income will.
if this is true than the situation is comparable to today. Today infant mortality is much lower than in most other latin American countries, but GDP per capita just average. However, as I told you, I have not seen reliable statistics about infant mortality in the 50's... . if it comes from miamilies.inc. I'm quite suspicious...
Quote:
Indeed Cuba deals with its brain drain by violently preventing its professionals from leaving. Other nations attempt to offer better pay and working conditions, and then leaves it up to the individual as to whether they still want to leave or not.
But the attempts of other nations, such as your native Guyana, failed miserably. That's why they have to import Cuban doctors.
Quote:
Why is it so important for blacks to get married to whites. Suppose they don't want to. Don't they have that right?
But why don't they want to? maybe they are racists? What's wrong with white ladies that blacks should only marry blacks? My guess is that many blacks in the us belong to the low class and live in ghetto's, so don't get in touch with white kids. Just my impression...
Also as a kid I liked "fresh prince of Bell Air" (very exotic in Russia where there are basically no black people) and also "friends". The one entirely consists of blacks, the other entirely of whites. If you think about it, that is just Apartheid, that's a role model. That is the core of american, racist society.
All Cuban movies and serials consist of whites, mixed people and blacks.
Quote:
This seems to be the only reason that you seem able to raise to claim that racism isn't a major issue in Cuba. It appears to me that who one gets married to is PERSONAL. Whether one is hampered by one's race to attain socio-economic progress is not.
usually people marry among people of their own socio-economic status.
Quote:
In the USA blacks protest against the barriers that reduce those opportunities. in Cuba blacks aren't allowed to, despite what you might say.
as I told you, they also do, a lot of papers, journals and articles are about race issues.
Quote:
Don't know where you got the idea that they don't get electricity in Brazil's favelas. They all have TVs so clearly they have electricity
I'm not quite sure about that, altough I've not been there I saw documentories.
Quote:
. And most likely not those infamous Cuban black outs either.
last time I was there I experienced two black outs of about 5 minutes. I kenya where I live mostly now 80% of the population doesn't have electricity and even in downtown Nairobi blackouts can last for hours.
Quote:
Indeed your Santiago neighborhood probably looks pretty much like one in Salvador in Brazil.
on first sight, yes. But there's very little crime, no gangs ruling the area and shooting people, everyone has access to good hospitals, clean water, enough food, most people have jobs (eventough low salaries), all children go to school, etc.
Quote:
You know what's funny is that you boast that Cuba doesn't have one drop as the USA has. Yes Cuba has a system where the more black you are the worse you are seen as being.
that's the case in the whole of latin america, that's why most actors in mexican telenovelas look like Scandinavians, eventough average mexicans hardly look like Scandinavians.
But the government tries to go against this mentality, there are a lot of awareness programs in schools for example.
Quote:
In Cuba white is best, then light mulato, than dark mulato, then at the bottom is black. So what's there to boast about? No wonder so many blacks rush to "advance the race" (yes I have heard that term which is much used in Cuba) to ensure that their offspring get a better deal.
so how come the number two of the Cuban regime is black, as are so many other important Cubans?
In my experience in Cuba, race is not that much an issue, except among a tiny minority of entirely Spanish orgin, who mostly have nice houses inherited from their families, family in miami, belong to the old elite, and very much hate the Castro's. They used to be much better than the rest, nowadays they are treated as other Cubans, and they hate it.
Quote:
Your theory doesn't fundamentally change the fact that Cuba s a racist country that practices the same hypocrisy which is prevalent all over Latin America, regardless as to the ideology of the elites.
in Cuba the blacks have made real progress, but there's still work to do. But your own country the us is not an example for Cuba at all. And to be honest, you can't only blame "whites" for the fact that blacks are still less fortunate usually. I saw in Cuba that blacks have exactly the same rights to go to university, or make a carreer, but mentality and education is another problem, to be honest. The black community, instead of only talking about black pride and black is beautiful, should also look at the problems in their own community, and why they are generally less succesful worldwide than, for example, Asians. In my dormitory at the university I remember most Africans partied all night and went with lots of Russian girls, most Asians were always concentrated on their books... of course this is a generalisation, and there are exception. Especially in Cuba I know blacks who are very disciplined and hard working, and punctual, and thus succesful. But most weren't, for example the family of my girlfriend...
Quote:
You mention ONE black who might replace Raul. Well we have one black who won TWO elections in the USA. Obama.
He's not a black, but a halfcast who was raised by whites while his father drunk himself to death in the Nairobi bars, some if which I've also been. Very intelligent man people told me, but now discipline.
Quote:
If you think that Obama is a stooge because you hate the USA, then many will consider Lazo Hernandez a stooge as well.
It doesn't work like that in Cuba. The politbureau, as in all communist countries, is where the real power is and decisions are made.
Quote:
So where are these others mulattos and blacks? Even you admit that the elites in Cuba are almost exclusively white. Yes the USA is 13% black. Cuba is at least 50% non white. Isn't it odd that in a nation which professes to be a paradise for blacks and mixed people continues to be run by a MINORITY white population?
I think that at least 50% of the communist party members would not be considered white in the us.
Quote:
If you go to Cuba's jail I challenge you to prove that the majority aren't non white, given that the majority of the poor are non white.
the total population of Cuba has a non)-white majority, which is very different from the us, however in the us the most inmates are equally non-white.
Quote:
The issue isn't whether the USA is racist or not. It is.
I'm not a black in the us, so you know better than me.
Quote:
The issue is that we blacks in the USA are allowed to speak out on it. Cuban blacks aren't.
once again, they are. Cuba is not north Korea, the press is pretty open about things like race problems.
Quote:
You know what's ironic is that in the 1950s, even though racism was obvious and some private clubs practiced segregation there was a decent sized black/brown middle class in Cuba. Indeed the 1953 census shows that 15% of the doctors were either mulatto or black, this when these groups accounted for 25% of the population. So its a fallacy to suggest that there was no black and brown middle class before 1958, so that Cuban blacks must feel a deep gratitude to Fidel.
I've never denied that, even Batista himself was a mulatto. But overall the position of blacks has improved in Cuba. Before the revolution most blacks lived in serious poverty, didn't have the possibility to go to university, etc. Before the revolution Cuba was like other latin American countries.
Quote:
In the USA 30% of black households have higher earnings than white households, and only 25% are poor. If one looks at black immigrants living in the USA the statistics get even better. Your average household headed by some one born in the English speaking Caribbean earns about 80% of what your average US BORN white household makes.
And yes this in a country where even 50% of the whites will admit still remains racist.
Now how many people in Cuba will admit that its still a fundamentally racist society where the darker one is the more difficult it is to attain upward mobility? I am talking about CONTEMPORAY racism, not some nonsense about slavery which ended more than 100 years ago in Cuba.
once again, in Cuba nearly every profession is mixed, nearly every building (except in Santiago), nearly every class in school, even nearly every family. Is this the case in the us? I don't think so.
BS video, not even Cubans, Cubans don't speak English you know, very few do.
I've visited the US and lived in Cuba. Cuba is far less racist than the US I can assure you. The fact alone that there are many more mixed couples in Cuba is already an indicator... The second most powerful man in Cuba is a black, and there are many blacks in the communist party, as well as mulatos, triguenos, etc. . You have never been in Cuba yet you think you know Cuba, based on some BS biased websites and media.
Who tf is Darcy Ferrer? He doesn't even have a wikpedia link, the only thing I came across on google was a porn star and this article. It shows his wife, which is white...
As I proved, blacks are at very centre of Cuban power structure.
In Bahamas or Jamaica nearly everyone is black, in Cuba most people are mixed, others are white, real blacks are a minority.
Cubans didn't need a martin luther king, because the Cuban government abolished all racist laws well before Martin Luther king achieved their abolishment in the us. Cuba also, since the 60's, actively supported Mandela and the ANC, while the US suported the apartheid regime.
Blacks in Cuba don't need to struggle, since they have full equal rights, and the same opportunities to attend universities, enter politics, etc. In the US they need to struggle, since the white republicans in the south are racist, and there's a blossoming white power movement. No such thing in Cuba. Nazi's would soon be noticed, arrested and serve long prison sentences.
The GOP can mount a "white power" movement and that will chase educated whites from them, even GOP supporters, as no one in the USA wants to be connected to racists. Stop eating Castro poison.
1. Well I guess the "poor" Jamaicans and Bahamians must be really unlucky that they don't have white people to get married to. Because according to you the ONLY thing that blacks must aspire to is to get married to whites, because you babble on and on about that fact. Indeed Cuban govt officials have been heard making reference to that and then claiming that this is why they look so "ugly", because in Cuba black is seen as being ugly.
Why is it so important for blacks to get married to whites Mr. Communist? If it isn't then why do you always raise it? Don't you think that people should have a right to decide who they wish to get married to and that this is a personal decision? Maybe we blacks in the USA (American, Caribbean and African) put more emphasis on decent housing, and good jobs rather than marrying impoverished whites (which is all you will be able to marry if you are poor). So this is what we advocate for.
2. I found Darcy Ferrer easily last night. You could if you wanted to. Don't use the Cuban google.
3. Raul Castro admits that there is racism in Cubaso clearly there isn't equality as racism means that they face discrimination in employment and other areas. Indeed a "Cuban" Mandela would have agitated for better access to the best paying jobs, and would have been arrested for it. Biscet, Ferrer and so many Cuban blacks arrested for advocating rights for blacks. Cuba's support for Mandela was on the orders of the USSR and was PURELY motivated by Cold War politics.
But what you forgot to add was that what ended apartheid in South Africa was the embargo against that nation put in place by the USA, UK and others when blacks and others mounted huge demonstrations, forcing corporations to boycott South Africa, this ultimately leading those nations to stop supporting the South African gov't.
THIS IS WHAT HAVING THE RIGHT TO PROTEST DOES!!!!!
4. You mentioned ONE black man. We have Obama who IS President, not might be but is. When you can prove that 30% of the people in TOP positions in Cuba are black/mixed I will listen to you. When you tell me that 30% of the people who have good jobs in the hotel sector are black/mixed I will listen to you.
again Barbados and Trinidad are not representative for the region. They are tiny, rich islands with a very small population, less than 1% of total Caraibian population. Cuba is the most populous Caraibian nation, next comes DR, than Haiti, than Jamaica.
The fact that Cuban doctors come to far away countries like Guyana means that education is much more accessible and better than in countries like Guyana. Really developped countries don't need Cuban doctors but have their own. Because the education in countries like Guyana is **** and way too expensive for the poor majority, is the reason Cuban doctors can make more money in Guyana.
By the way I'm an engineer, I can make more money in poor, third world countries like Kenya, Congo Brazzaville, Suriname or Guyana than in the Netherlands, where I used to work before, or russia obviously(since Russia is full of highly qualified engeneers). Because the education system in these countries is just a mess, qualified engineers are in high demand, the same about doctors.
They couldn't, because Cuban government will be in control. China also let in Western companies, but only on their own very strict terms, unlike submissive states where politicians can be easily bribed such as Philippines, Kenya, DR, etc.
They want trade with the us, as long as it mutually benefits both countries, much like the trade between the us and China. For example, once Americans taste Havana club, they will prefere it over Bacardi as happened in Europe, and Cuba will make billions of profits. Unlike 60 years ago, the profits will not flow back to the us, but stay in Cuba. This money can be invested in the Cuban economy. Also milions of American tourists will visit Cuba, and it will certainly help the Cuba economy. It means Cuban salaries will be much higher, and Cuba will be a lot wealthier.
But that's exactly the reason Americans don't want to lift the embargo, than Cuba and its system will really look like an example to many countries in the region.
They are not, they have always condemned it, as do all other latin American countries, Canada and all European countries.
The issue comes up a lot, but the us always refuses to discuss the matter.
Leaving the OAS would harm their interests.
the whole world condemns the us embargo, as well as the Worl d trade organisation, and especially the helms-burton law. It is very harmfull for the us image in the region, and even American captains of industry complained that the US is loosing business there to China, Russia, Europe, Brazil, etc . But they can't force the us to change it laws.
As you know the Brazilian government is made up by leftists, with close links to Cuba, the current president used to be a communist guerilla fighter. The main investors are state companies. Of course also private Brazilian investors come to Cuba to make money.
But in many or even most latin American countries people voted for leftist governments which want to copy at least parts of the Cuban economic system and are good friends of the castro's. In Argentina, Peru, Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Uruguay, people voted for anti-American, leftist government who are nationalising whole parts of the economy.
These countries are sick and tired of capitalist pro-American politicians who ruled them for decades.
In Paraguay and Honduras the elected leftists were deposed by old fasioned military coups organised by the CIA.
do you have a link?
As I also demonstrated, income was very unevenly distributed during the Batista regime.
if this is true than the situation is comparable to today. Today infant mortality is much lower than in most other latin American countries, but GDP per capita just average. However, as I told you, I have not seen reliable statistics about infant mortality in the 50's... . if it comes from miamilies.inc. I'm quite suspicious...
But the attempts of other nations, such as your native Guyana, failed miserably. That's why they have to import Cuban doctors.
But why don't they want to? maybe they are racists? What's wrong with white ladies that blacks should only marry blacks? My guess is that many blacks in the us belong to the low class and live in ghetto's, so don't get in touch with white kids. Just my impression...
Also as a kid I liked "fresh prince of Bell Air" (very exotic in Russia where there are basically no black people) and also "friends". The one entirely consists of blacks, the other entirely of whites. If you think about it, that is just Apartheid, that's a role model. That is the core of american, racist society.
All Cuban movies and serials consist of whites, mixed people and blacks.
usually people marry among people of their own socio-economic status.
as I told you, they also do, a lot of papers, journals and articles are about race issues.
I'm not quite sure about that, altough I've not been there I saw documentories.
last time I was there I experienced two black outs of about 5 minutes. I kenya where I live mostly now 80% of the population doesn't have electricity and even in downtown Nairobi blackouts can last for hours.
on first sight, yes. But there's very little crime, no gangs ruling the area and shooting people, everyone has access to good hospitals, clean water, enough food, most people have jobs (eventough low salaries), all children go to school, etc.
that's the case in the whole of latin america, that's why most actors in mexican telenovelas look like Scandinavians, eventough average mexicans hardly look like Scandinavians.
But the government tries to go against this mentality, there are a lot of awareness programs in schools for example.
so how come the number two of the Cuban regime is black, as are so many other important Cubans?
In my experience in Cuba, race is not that much an issue, except among a tiny minority of entirely Spanish orgin, who mostly have nice houses inherited from their families, family in miami, belong to the old elite, and very much hate the Castro's. They used to be much better than the rest, nowadays they are treated as other Cubans, and they hate it.
in Cuba the blacks have made real progress, but there's still work to do. But your own country the us is not an example for Cuba at all. And to be honest, you can't only blame "whites" for the fact that blacks are still less fortunate usually. I saw in Cuba that blacks have exactly the same rights to go to university, or make a carreer, but mentality and education is another problem, to be honest. The black community, instead of only talking about black pride and black is beautiful, should also look at the problems in their own community, and why they are generally less succesful worldwide than, for example, Asians. In my dormitory at the university I remember most Africans partied all night and went with lots of Russian girls, most Asians were always concentrated on their books... of course this is a generalisation, and there are exception. Especially in Cuba I know blacks who are very disciplined and hard working, and punctual, and thus succesful. But most weren't, for example the family of my girlfriend...
He's not a black, but a halfcast who was raised by whites while his father drunk himself to death in the Nairobi bars, some if which I've also been. Very intelligent man people told me, but now discipline.
It doesn't work like that in Cuba. The politbureau, as in all communist countries, is where the real power is and decisions are made.
I think that at least 50% of the communist party members would not be considered white in the us.
the total population of Cuba has a non)-white majority, which is very different from the us, however in the us the most inmates are equally non-white.
I'm not a black in the us, so you know better than me.
once again, they are. Cuba is not north Korea, the press is pretty open about things like race problems.
I've never denied that, even Batista himself was a mulatto. But overall the position of blacks has improved in Cuba. Before the revolution most blacks lived in serious poverty, didn't have the possibility to go to university, etc. Before the revolution Cuba was like other latin American countries.
once again, in Cuba nearly every profession is mixed, nearly every building (except in Santiago), nearly every class in school, even nearly every family. Is this the case in the us? I don't think so.
Here is the discussion about race in Cuba. "Blacks are better off in Cuba than any where else in the world. Indeed before our Great Leader Fidel rescued them they were all maids and very few went to university. How ever due to the evil colonialists and slave master there is still racism in Cuba".
Say any more than this and a jail cell is waiting for you as the many BLACK political prisoners in Cuba have discovered. Also note that prior to this Castro angrily screamed that there is no racism in Cuba. This only changed in the face of mounting evidence that racism in Cuba is alive and kicking, and blacks were becoming increasingly vocal about this, and facing harassment as a result.
You know full well that Cuba sells its doctors because it is short of cash. If it is for humanitarian reasons why do they pocket half of the salary. That costs these nations TWICE as much. Cuba does NOT provide free doctors.
Guyana has lost 85% of its university educated people because if people want to leave the gov't doesn't stop them. Does Cuba allow its university educated people to migrate? St Kitts Nevis doesn't have a medical school because it is too small to afford one...yet you insist that its small size is a huge advantage. Clearly a huge nation like Cuba can afford to have lots of facilities because it has a larger population base to tax and therefore more revenues for tertiary level education.
Apparently you cant google. Its easy to find infant mortality rates for the 1955/60 period. Go look. In fact I gave you a link before but so caught up you were in your per capita mumbo jumbo that you obviously didn't look at it. Per capita income is a very unreliable way to gauge how well or poorly a population is doing. All it measures is the value of goods and service produced in a nation divided by its population.
The White House is where decisions in the USA are made, and these not only impact the USA, but the entire world. So if Lazo Hernandez isn't a stooge that Obama definitely isn't. So apparently a country where whites are 66% has done a better job in getting its non whites into leadership positions than a country where whites are less than 50%.
Maybe Cuban blacks aspire to less because they don't see equal opportunities. Their behavior mirrors that of POOR blacks in majority white racist societies, which makes my point.
African university students in the USA and the UK are known for being very hard working and disciplined as they are in Africa itself. They would be tossed out of university in Nigeria or Ghana if they didn't study. Indeed when I was in Yugoslavia (before it was divided up) the African students used to ridicule the locals for wanting to drink and sing bawdy songs rather than study.
Clearly Cuba is getting the bottom of the pile, as I previously told you. The more ambitious stay home or study in North America or Europe.
Trinidad has the fifth largest population in the Caribbean (I exclude PR which is a US territory). 1.3 million people isn't tiny but yet they have 99% electricity and the vast majority of Trinidadians live in homes that better than what Cubans have and large numbers in homes that aren't unlike what many people in the USA will tolerate. Quit your excuses.
When one gov't bores them they toss them out and get another. Clearly no one leader has a monopoly of ideas so its extremely abnormal for one group to be running a nation for 55 years!
As to your notion that every profession in Cuba is mixed, well the same applies to the USA. So what's your point? if 3 in every 10 blacks households earn more than the average white one, well clearly many must be in the professions.
In 1953 15% of the doctors in Cuba were black/mixed, according to Cuban census figures at the time. I guess they figured out how to become doctors without college.
Indeed there was a book printed in the 1942 by Eric Williams, a major Caribbean intellectual, who led struggles against colonial rule in Trinidad in the 1950s. This is an excellent source as it was before the Cuban Revolution so there is no issue of bias based on what he thought of Castro.
In "Negro in the Caribbean" he wrote that (in the late 30s) in Cuba blacks accounted for 10% of the medical students, and 15% of the dental students. Clearly then there was a sizeable middle class, because as you well know it was difficult for poor students to access university ANY WHERE IN THE WORLD in the 1930s. This was when they were about 25% of the population (black and mixed).
So clearly there was a cadre of university educated blacks before Fidel Castro.
Stop beating that US embargo nonsense. A Brazilian is building a huge harbor in Cuba, and they also do business in the USA. Aside from a few senile Cuban exiles nobody cares. If the USA traded with Cuba the Brazilian company would have had to compete against a US company for the contract.
Last edited by caribny; 01-02-2014 at 03:26 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
