U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-09-2014, 04:10 AM
 
2,722 posts, read 1,549,748 times
Reputation: 936

Advertisements

I think the U.S. would have the capability of annexing all of the Caribbean (probably with the exception of Cuba) by late 19th or early 20th century. It certainly had some interest in the Caribbean as it included Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Navassa Island as its territories. Heck, even the most populous country in the Caribbean includes Dominican Republic overwhelmingly voted for annexation by the U.S. in 1870 but the U.S. senate refused to honour the outcome of the referendum.

Even if the U.S. does not want to fund them as states, it could have kept them as territories and consider granting statehood once their economy and infrastructure are more developed. These Caribbean islands could then join collectively as one U.S. state with the capital being either Santo Domingo or San Juan.

These Caribbean islands benefit the U.S. as they are great tourist attractions and would have extended the U.S. border and influence in the Americas.


The Caribbean countries/dependent territories that could have easily be incorporated by the U.S. back then include:

Anguilla (United Kingdom)
Antigua and Barbuda
Aruba
Bahamas
Bajo Nuevo Bank (Colombia)
Barbados
Bonaire (Netherlands)
Clipperton Island (France)
Sint Eustatius (Netherlands)
Saba (Netherlands)
British Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
Cayman Islands (United Kingdom)
Curaçao (Netherlands)
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Grenada
Guadeloupe (France)
Haiti
Jamaica
Martinique (France)
Montserrat (United Kingdom)
Saint-Barthélemy (France)
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Serranilla Bank (Colombia)
Collectivity of Saint Martin (France)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Sint Maarten (Netherlands)
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos Islands (United Kingdom)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-09-2014, 06:25 AM
 
692 posts, read 876,357 times
Reputation: 939
You do realise that the Caribbean was mostly colonised by the UK and France at the time? Stealing territory from a declining power like Spain would have been feasible (as shown in the war of 1898) but the US was in no shape to take on the two largest empires in the world simultaneously, destroying their own major trade partners and fighting their own military allies. Would have been suicide.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 07:27 AM
 
2,722 posts, read 1,549,748 times
Reputation: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexdiamondz1902 View Post
You do realise that the Caribbean was mostly colonised by the UK and France at the time? Stealing territory from a declining power like Spain would have been feasible (as shown in the war of 1898) but the US was in no shape to take on the two largest empires in the world simultaneously, destroying their own major trade partners and fighting their own military allies. Would have been suicide.
The colonies probably want US more due to proximity. 99% of citizens in Dominican Republic voted in favor of US annexation. UK and France by late 19th/early 20th century are either declining as well or busy with affairs in Europe (dealing with Russia, Prussia, Austria Hungary, Italy, etc.)

US could definitely have done more than just Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Navassa Island in the Caribbean area...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,643,841 times
Reputation: 2206
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexdiamondz1902 View Post
You do realise that the Caribbean was mostly colonised by the UK and France at the time? Stealing territory from a declining power like Spain would have been feasible (as shown in the war of 1898) but the US was in no shape to take on the two largest empires in the world simultaneously, destroying their own major trade partners and fighting their own military allies. Would have been suicide.
There were plenty of territories to annex. There was Cuba, which is by far the largest, most populous, and most economically important Caribbean island, then there was Haiti, and the Dominican Republic. All of these places were (and are) vastly more populous and important than any British or French holdings, with the sole exception of Jamaica. There were also the Dutch holdings including Curaçao, but these places were miniscule in comparison to the aforementioned territories.

That being said, the reason is that the populace of the US, being former colonials themselves, were generally against imperialism as the Europeans understood it. They generally had little interest in dominating millions of culturally foreign people in the way that Britain, France, Portugal and the Netherlands were doing in Africa and South Asia. Furthermore, the US had boundless resources, unlike the small European powers, and was already busy populating it's territories west of the Mississippi. Any president seen to be at the helm of unnecessary or unprovoked conquests could risk seeing a drop in approval ratings. Even when a president did approve of annexing foreign territories, the proposal would also need to be approved by the senate. This all made annexation of foreign territories a more difficult process in the United States than it was in Britain, France, or the other European powers.

Remember that in case of Hawaii, and several other smaller Pacific islands, US citizens and companies initially took over the island, not the government. This has always been the case in the US that pioneers would freely moves into territories before the government, whether the territory is Hawaii, or California, or Kentucky. This pattern of population differs greatly from the imperial powers, and led to the "Wild West" scenario, where government was in many cases non-existent. In Canada, the British Empire, the government would set up in a western territory, and afterwards invite settlement in the territory. Regarding Hawaii, Grover Cleveland rejected the offer of the Hawaiian islands and demanded that the Queen be reinstated; nonetheless the next president William McKinley approved the offer of the islands. Desipte the president's approval, the offer wasn't ratified by the US senate. As a result the president cunningly circumvented the senate and annexed the islands through a joint resolution. Even then, many voters were opposed to the annexation. The example of the Hawaiian islands shows just how complicated it could be for the US to annex foreign territories.

Puerto Rico and the Phillippines on the other hand, were not independent countries but territories of an imperial power the US was at war with. The annexations were justified by the idea that the Filipinos and Puerto Ricans could no longer be part of Spain, but were not yet ready for independence either. The plan in theory was to govern the islands until the natives were ready to govern themselves. The situation that enabled the annexation of the Phillippines and Puerto Rico was quite different from that which the US would have encountered while conquering independent countries in the Caribbean.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Earth
7,658 posts, read 5,502,614 times
Reputation: 5808
I think we should annex them. there needs to be some sort peaceful strategy to do this. Send English teachers and lady gaga. Think about all the sugar we could grow.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 02:33 PM
 
8,040 posts, read 11,472,040 times
Reputation: 6919
Just for the record, Puerto Rico, Haiti, and Cuba had larger populations than the Dominican Republic well into the 20th Century. I'm not sure about Jamaica, but it probably was bigger population-wise too. Dominican Republic was traditionally one of the least populated countries in the Caribbean and the least crowded of them all, it was even less crowded than Cuba despite that Cuba is several times larger in land area. 99% of the Dominican Republic remained in its virgin natural state as Christopher Columbus found the place in 1492 until well into the 20th century.

Also, Cuba was the target by US expansionism during the late 18th and early 20th centuries. Even Roosevelt (if I'm not mistaken of the president) made a comment about how the USA was meant to include Cuba too.

I personally think the US decided to go into military action in taking over Cuba (and as a bonus Puerto Rico and the Philippines) after experiencing the failure of acquiring the Dominican Republic through much more democratic ways. That's why the US bombed its own USS Maine off Havana and then blamed it on the Spanish and declared war against Spain.

In the end, the US got what it wanted which was a military base in the Caribbean. Initially they wanted Samana Bay in the Dominican Republic, which is the best bay in the Caribbean for a military base due to the natural protection of the bay and its strategic location. The US had to settle for Guantanamo Bay, which despite losing the political grip on Cuba during Castro's rise to power, the US still has sovereignty over Guantanamo and while it technically rents the land from the Cuban government, the deal was arranged that the Cuban government is obligated to rent Guantanamo to the US and on US terms. An added bonus is that the Cuban government can't decide to break the contract, only the US government can do that and if the Cuban government tries, it will be interpreted as an aggression towards the US for which the US will respond through military force.

Last edited by AntonioR; 03-09-2014 at 03:51 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 05:36 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,584 posts, read 25,406,708 times
Reputation: 8970
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
There were plenty of territories to annex. There was Cuba, which is by far the largest, most populous, and most economically important Caribbean island, then there was Haiti, and the Dominican Republic. All of these places were (and are) vastly more populous and important than any British or French holdings, with the sole exception of Jamaica. There were also the Dutch holdings including Curaçao, but these places were miniscule in comparison to the aforementioned territories.

That being said, the reason is that the populace of the US, being former colonials themselves, were generally against imperialism as the Europeans understood it. They generally had little interest in dominating millions of culturally foreign people in the way that Britain, France, Portugal and the Netherlands were doing in Africa and South Asia. Furthermore, the US had boundless resources, unlike the small European powers, and was already busy populating it's territories west of the Mississippi. Any president seen to be at the helm of unnecessary or unprovoked conquests could risk seeing a drop in approval ratings. Even when a president did approve of annexing foreign territories, the proposal would also need to be approved by the senate. This all made annexation of foreign territories a more difficult process in the United States than it was in Britain, France, or the other European powers.

Remember that in case of Hawaii, and several other smaller Pacific islands, US citizens and companies initially took over the island, not the government. This has always been the case in the US that pioneers would freely moves into territories before the government, whether the territory is Hawaii, or California, or Kentucky. This pattern of population differs greatly from the imperial powers, and led to the "Wild West" scenario, where government was in many cases non-existent. In Canada, the British Empire, the government would set up in a western territory, and afterwards invite settlement in the territory. Regarding Hawaii, Grover Cleveland rejected the offer of the Hawaiian islands and demanded that the Queen be reinstated; nonetheless the next president William McKinley approved the offer of the islands. Desipte the president's approval, the offer wasn't ratified by the US senate. As a result the president cunningly circumvented the senate and annexed the islands through a joint resolution. Even then, many voters were opposed to the annexation. The example of the Hawaiian islands shows just how complicated it could be for the US to annex foreign territories.

Puerto Rico and the Phillippines on the other hand, were not independent countries but territories of an imperial power the US was at war with. The annexations were justified by the idea that the Filipinos and Puerto Ricans could no longer be part of Spain, but were not yet ready for independence either. The plan in theory was to govern the islands until the natives were ready to govern themselves. The situation that enabled the annexation of the Phillippines and Puerto Rico was quite different from that which the US would have encountered while conquering independent countries in the Caribbean.
Perfectly explained!!! +1
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2014, 11:19 PM
 
4,654 posts, read 4,256,162 times
Reputation: 1435
Crappy thread,how about annexing the whole planet and we'll be over with ?
There will be only one country on this planet ?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2014, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Earth
7,658 posts, read 5,502,614 times
Reputation: 5808
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
Crappy thread,how about annexing the whole planet and we'll be over with ?
There will be only one country on this planet ?
No. I think it mostly about what you can grow in these places and maybe some naval bases. I think annexing should probably stop with mexico. They do have oil. And most of the illegals are from mexico anyway.


I think the real question is how do you spread the english language south of the border. Maybe by exporting the tv show, Friends.


I think there will be regional block before their is a world government. Plus, I think there needs to space colonies on the moon and mars.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2014, 01:53 AM
 
334 posts, read 417,557 times
Reputation: 61
Well the USA controlled Puerto Rico & Cuba as a result of the aftermath of the Spanish-U.S. American War. USA gave up it's clutches on Cuba and allowed it to be a free and independent sovereign nation, although USA kept it's claws on Guatanamo.

As for Puerto Rico, that's still an unincorporated territory commonwealth associated with the USA.

Danish Caribbean islands were sold to the USA in 1917. Denmark sold their Caribbean colonies and regions to USA in 1917. The Danish Caribbean islands are now known as the U.S. Virgin islands. Interestingly and coincidentally enough, 1917 is the year that Puerto Ricans were made U.S. American citizens.

Last edited by CorderoAries; 03-17-2014 at 02:21 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Americas

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top