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Old 05-01-2014, 08:50 AM
 
692 posts, read 960,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volosong View Post
Assuming by referring to "native English speakers", you are referring those who live in the United States and not in the U.K. or Australia/New Zealand/South Africa/India. (Not saying that South Africans and Indians only speak English. They all have a second language also - Afrikaans, Zulu, Hindi, etc.)

Historically, most people in the United States were fairly isolated from the rest of the world, (large oceans on either side with an English speaking country to the north and minimal economic trade with the country to the south). You could drive for three, four, or five days and still be in a region where English is spoken, albeit with a different accent. Drive the same distance in Europe and you have probably passed through seven or eight different countries, all with their own language. International travel is expensive, back then and still.

And . . . when the United States became the big gorilla on the planet after WWI, from an economic standpoint, the rest of the world had to get in lock step with us. English became the international language of business, as French is/was the international language of diplomacy. (It will be interesting to see if in future decades, if Mandarin or Hindi become the language of business as their economies overtake that of the U.S.)
Its the same in the rest of the anglosphere as well. The British have the worst rates of bilingualism in the world. Most anglophone Canadians are also monolingual, as are New Zealanders and Australians.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,391 posts, read 31,008,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volosong View Post
Assuming by referring to "native English speakers", you are referring those who live in the United States and not in the U.K. or Australia/New Zealand/South Africa/India. (Not saying that South Africans and Indians only speak English. They all have a second language also - Afrikaans, Zulu, Hindi, etc.)

Historically, most people in the United States were fairly isolated from the rest of the world, (large oceans on either side with an English speaking country to the north and minimal economic trade with the country to the south). You could drive for three, four, or five days and still be in a region where English is spoken, albeit with a different accent. Drive the same distance in Europe and you have probably passed through seven or eight different countries, all with their own language. International travel is expensive, back then and still.

And . . . when the United States became the big gorilla on the planet after WWI, from an economic standpoint, the rest of the world had to get in lock step with us. English became the international language of business, as French is/was the international language of diplomacy. (It will be interesting to see if in future decades, if Mandarin or Hindi become the language of business as their economies overtake that of the U.S.)

Indian people don't even do business in Hindi within their own country, I doubt that it will ever become the lingua franca, even if by some odd chance that India becomes a greater superpower than the United States (it won't)

English is going to be the lingua franca for a VERY long time, even if China surpasses the United States. If China becomes the new super power, it doesn't mean United States is going to turn into a weak 3rd world country. None of us will be alive to see the day where anyone in the United States will be forced to learn Chinese to get a job.

English is part of the global culture. It wouldn't make much sense to change it, on top of that the United States will likely lead in business and trade, even after China surpasses it in terms of a larger economy. That's ïf China doesn't make any poor decisions and set them back. They are not immune to large recessions either (as has been seen in the not so distant past)
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: East coast
613 posts, read 1,173,432 times
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No, it's all about when you learn the language. Learn it young enough and you'll speak it as fluently as a native. Learn it too late in life and you'll still show signs in your speech/accent that you are not a native speaker.

Critical period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Usually it's some time in childhood. There must be a lot more people who speak another language natively and who are learning English in childhood, than people who speak English natively and are learning non-English languages as children.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:44 AM
 
692 posts, read 960,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
Indian people don't even do business in Hindi within their own country, I doubt that it will ever become the lingua franca, even if by some odd chance that India becomes a greater superpower than the United States (it won't)

English is going to be the lingua franca for a VERY long time, even if China surpasses the United States. If China becomes the new super power, it doesn't mean United States is going to turn into a weak 3rd world country. None of us will be alive to see the day where anyone in the United States will be forced to learn Chinese to get a job.

English is part of the global culture. It wouldn't make much sense to change it, on top of that the United States will likely lead in business and trade, even after China surpasses it in terms of a larger economy. That's ïf China doesn't make any poor decisions and set them back. They are not immune to large recessions either (as has been seen in the not so distant past)
LOL the denial in this one is strong.


English is part of the global culture now because of the media, but as the Chinese start to produce more films, television content, books and other media you WILL see a shift away from English, especially considering that Chinese languages as an aggregate already VASTLY outnumber native English speakers, and China already enjoys a large and spread out diaspora. Chinese won't be the new lingua franca for another 50 years or so but it will happen. I can almost guarantee within my children's lifetime Chinese will have usurped English as the global lingua franca.
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:50 AM
 
3,282 posts, read 3,809,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
No, it's all about when you learn the language. Learn it young enough and you'll speak it as fluently as a native. Learn it too late in life and you'll still show signs in your speech/accent that you are not a native speaker.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period#Linguistics"]Critical period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

Usually it's some time in childhood. There must be a lot more people who speak another language natively and who are learning English in childhood, than people who speak English natively and are learning non-English languages as children.
I don't think the US promotes language learning at a young age because as others have mentioned, there isn't a significant general need.

It is a shame. At the same time, I have noticed a fear with alot of Americans learning another language. I constantly hear people say 'I can't,' 'I learned it but can't speak it,' 'I wish I could' etc... I have so many Mexican family members and friends with Anglo spouses who have tried to get their spouses to learn, but the spouses reach a point where they give up. I hear it with my co-workers constantly too.

It just isn't a priority for many people.
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Old 05-03-2014, 04:23 PM
 
8,573 posts, read 8,580,225 times
Reputation: 4684
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexdiamondz1902 View Post
LOL the denial in this one is strong.


English is part of the global culture now because of the media, but as the Chinese start to produce more films, television content, books and other media you WILL see a shift away from English, especially considering that Chinese languages as an aggregate already VASTLY outnumber native English speakers, and China already enjoys a large and spread out diaspora. Chinese won't be the new lingua franca for another 50 years or so but it will happen. I can almost guarantee within my children's lifetime Chinese will have usurped English as the global lingua franca.

English being the dominant global language is only partially because the UK was once dominant and now the USA has replaced them.

English is also dominant because it is a common language spoken by most people, as their second or third language. A Brazilian will likely communicate with a German in English, even though it isn't native for either.

The notion that every one will speak Mandarin is nonsense, as even in China it is only one of several languages.

Within the Caribbean the Dutch islands are the most multilingual, this due to the Dutch being multilingual. During Carifesta in Suriname many events were conducted in English and the Surinamers seemed to comfortable with it. And this is despite the fact that Surinamers are about the least likely of Dutch Caribbean people to speak languages beyond Dutch and the local languages.

Then come the Spanish islands where the elites are mainly fluent in English, and even among other urban dwellers there is often some rudimentary knowledge of the language.

Then come the French islands. I was surprised during the Haiti earthquake how many ordinary Haitians had some ability to speak English, and others Spanish. Even in French Antilles there is growing competency among the younger people in English, as they wish to interact with a world beyond France.

It is in the English speaking Caribbean where there is almost total monolingual speech, and a high level of arrogance about that too. When we are taught foreign languages in school, it is to pass exams. How many people become fluent, unless they make it a point to be? This is despite the attempts by gov'ts, especially in Trinidad, to develop a more multilingual population.
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