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There are plenty of us here who have a history of writing balanced posts who have assured you the term "estadounidense" is used regularly without any ulterior motives. Documents and definitions have been posted, and you both still insist that only US haters use "American" for the whole continent and that American is used for the US.
Your right, The term Estadounidense is not slang or meant as offensive in any way, it is used as the official term in much of Latin American media and when reffering to some one from the USA.
I have quoted plenty of examples including posts you have quoted and have conveniently chosen to ignore.
Just admit it, you were wrong. Take the high road, not the troll road.
What's next, are you gonna go after my grammar and spelling mistakes?
I have done the same as you and yet, like a few others, you keep repeating the same things over and over. Not sure what your goal is and at this point I have given up on trying to figure that out. Nothing will change due to the existence of this discussion on City-Data so at this point, it's entertainment only.
I have no problem with United States citizens calling themselves Americans. I respect those who disagree (and their perspective), but have a different view. They also should respect those that disagree with them. It is a two way street. There will always be a few people offended by a name. Respect does not require agreement.
Example: The Gedney pickle company (about a year ago) changed the name of its midget pickle brand so as not to offend a woman in Rhode Island who had requested it, because she has a daughter with dwarfism. Hard to believe, isn't it? I am a reasonably liberal person, but the PC "name game" is getting a little out of control IMO.
This is a good thread topic, but it would have been interesting to put it in the form of a poll, too. I have not read all the posts yet, but can't believe there are many people that have a problem with it. There are far more serious matters.
Last edited by chessgeek; 06-29-2014 at 04:50 PM..
I have done the same as you and yet, like a few others, you keep repeating the same things over and over. Not sure what your goal is and at this point I have given up on trying to figure that out. Nothing will change due to the existence of this discussion on City-Data so at this point, it's entertainment only.
I haven't seen any proof that Mexicans call US citizens "Americans" like you claimed earlier. Maybe colloquially Mexicans in border towns use this. For sure Mexican Immigrants and other immigrants in the US use "American" for US citizens.
Officially the term seems to be "Estadounidense" for US citizens in Spanish. So those South Americans are not living in their "own little world" they are just using proper Spanish. If they don't speak enough English to understand what "American" means in English that's another issue. Do you really expect them to speak English? I still don't understand why you think they live in their own little world for speaking the official language of their country.
I haven't seen any proof that Mexicans call US citizens "Americans" like you claimed earlier. Maybe colloquially Mexicans in border towns use this. For sure Mexican Immigrants and other immigrants in the US use "American" for US citizens.
Officially the term seems to be "Estadounidense" for US citizens in Spanish. So those South Americans are not living in their "own little world" they are just using proper Spanish. If they don't speak enough English to understand what "American" means in English that's another issue. Do you really expect them to speak English? I still don't understand why you think they live in their own little world for speaking the official language of their country.
Mexicans do call Americans 'americanos,' but they also refer to them as 'estadounidenses' and even 'norteamericanos.' This is especially the norm with intellectuals and more educated people. I think it is in more recent times that it has become commonplace to refer to them as americanos. As another Mexican on here commented, Mexicans have so many ties to the US that it would make life too complicated not to call them that.
You usually write very balanced and rational posts Burgler but you are wrong about this. I think you and to a lesser extent Gentoo are cases of Dysrationalia. You two are no experts in Latin America. How can you two be sure about the claims you are making?
There are plenty of us here who have a history of writing balanced posts who have assured you the term "estadounidense" is used regularly without any ulterior motives. Documents and definitions have been posted, and you both still insist that only US haters use "American" for the whole continent and that American is used for the US.
Here's are example I found right away by just typing Chilean news. They don't say "American drones" they say "drones estadounidense" they don't say America they say "Estados Unidos".
I don't really think I'm irrational though. I just don't find it that uncommon for anyone to say "Americano". I agree that you probably wouldn't see "Americano" on the news in Chile, but you also would never see them say "Gringo" on the news either.
I don't find it THAT uncommon for someone in South America to say Americano. I do hear Gringo a lot more though.
However, I never hear them refer to themselves as Americanos.
I've never had a Latin American be confused by me saying Americano, nor have I had one be offended if I call myself one.
1492 Christopher Columbus first voyage
1497 John Cabot under charter by English king Henry 7th discovers route to Newfoundland
1499 Amerigo Vespucci's first voyage (uncontested)
1506 Coolumbus dies
1507 Waldseemüller map uses the name America (over South America)
1512 Amerigo Vespucci dies
The British considered Cabot the discoverer of the British North America. Part of the reason that the colonists embraced Vespucci and Columbus as cultural heroes was to distance themselves from Great Britain.
I am deeply bothered by the inability for some people to understand that there are different ways of perceiving the world. To say that it is a FACT that there are seven continents and to say different is WRONG is appalling.
You can read Old Spanish? That's fascinating.
I don't know if I can now- I did study Spanish literature( from Latin America and Spain) for at least 6 years. Also studied Spanish in Spain for a year.
One of the most challenging classes I took was graduate level Cervantes. I still have my book and most pages are higlighted to the max with translations! It was insane.
There is definitely a lack of knowledge of the world and world history. More amazing is how instead of having an open conversation and learning, it has turned into never ending squabbles.
This is still one of my favorite quotes in this thread. Can we all agree at the very least this post is uneducated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx
It is time to stop calling these people Latino. They are not Latin speaking, and there is no country recognized Latin America. They are Hispanic except for Portuguese
I think my posts were well balanced. I agree that the identification of America and Americans developed in a natural and non-malicious way, and there were no other independent countries in the Western Hemisphere at the time. Since the country was very small at the time, the charge of Imperialism makes no sense.
I also agree that it is now a natural part of language. Both American English, Canadians, most of northern Europe and a good part of Asia identifies with this convention.
I also believe that "Estadounidense" may be worthy of putting on a form, but it is far too cumbersome to say except in bureaucratic settings.
But the education system that teaches that American is a word that should not be co-opted by citizens of the USA, is far reaching into France, Italy, Spain, Greece, and much of South America and Central America. It's not a fringe concept.
Like most people I have modified the words that I use, because they are no longer widely accepted. Some words like Eskimo, I never thought of as offensive. I never dreamed that "Middle East" was a bothersome word, but it is just as easy for me to say "Western Asia". I still say "Sub-Saharan Africa" because I can't think of a better term, and I don't always mean "Africa". Personally, I would think that black people would be deeply bothered by the phrase African-American, but I still use it because it has been deemed the most acceptable word.
And yes, "African-United Statesian" is one of the most horrifying demonyms I have ever heard.
I just don't get the big deal out of respecting their education and saying "I'm from the USA". About 90% of the time, if you are from the US, it isn't necessary to tell people your home country. Your not being emasculated, nor are you giving away your birthright.
And there is no reason to mock people. To tell them they are close minded, and that Latin is a dead language.
I don't know if I can now- I did study Spanish literature( from Latin America and Spain) for at least 6 years. Also studied Spanish in Spain for a year.
My grandfather grew up outside of Salamanca where they speak some of the oldest forms of Spanish. My aunt and cousin both studied in the University.
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