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Old 03-04-2016, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Seoul
11,554 posts, read 9,329,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
Its funny how the Portuguese first raid and exploit Brazil for their own economic purposes and suddenly after the tables have turned and there are no jobs in Portugal, now they are all coming to the country which they helped to destroy. Wow

 
Old 03-07-2016, 12:55 PM
 
990 posts, read 881,658 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Its funny how the Portuguese first raid and exploit Brazil for their own economic purposes and suddenly after the tables have turned and there are no jobs in Portugal, now they are all coming to the country which they helped to destroy. Wow
The avalanche of new Portuguese in Brazil
ALEXANDRA LUCAS RABBIT (in Rio de Janeiro) 29/12/2011 - 07:02
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As the crisis in Portugal is ugly, the pressure of illegal tend to grow PHOTO: RUI GAUDÊNCIO
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Only in the first half of this year, more than 50 thousand Portuguese called residence in Brazil. And multiply illegal workers. Visas and bureaucracy have been the major brake. Architects, engineers, managers seem to dominate. But there are those who come to the 12th year.

In August 2010, Catia Almeida landed in Rio de Janeiro to participate in the World Championship Capoeira. He was champion and did not catch the flight back to Portugal. A daughter was already with her. The other came after his father. They are all live in Rio.

Algarve Albufeira, 30, Catia is part of the avalanche of new Portuguese in Brazil, difficult to measure in numbers. Only between December 2010 and June 2011, permanent residence applications increased from 276,703 to 328,856 (data from the Brazilian Ministry of Justice).

This means over 52,000 Portuguese in just half a year, out visas for temporary work, students and researchers. But to have a fair dimension of reality, one would still add up all illegal. Visas are the greatest obstacle the new race to Brazil. Many of the Portuguese legal immigrants know several illegal.

Even Katie did not expect the bureaucracy was so difficult. And their daughters are Luso-Brazilian.

The story of this family actually has the two races that took place between Portugal and Brazil in the last 20 years. First, the Brazilian race for Portugal when Brazil was wrong. After the reverse.

"I met my husband in Albufeira in 1998," says the PUBLIC. "He had emigrated from Brazil to come to capoeira classes, try a new life." Boy in Niterói, 25 years. Catia was 17. It was "more or less love at first sight." A year later they had a daughter, then came another, then Catia invested in poultry. In 2010 it was national champion and European champion. "And in August to Albufeira Chamber paid me a ticket for me to come to the World Cup in Rio."

It was the opportunity that the family needed to reverse emigration. Things in Portugal were not good. "I worked as a receptionist at a hotel in Albufeira, my husband was a professional firefighter. We were living to pay the bills and no longer gave, with two children, the house, water, electricity, telephone. On one of those sleepless nights we decided: let's go. "

Katie came up with the 12 year old daughter, who is also a champion of capoeira and had the right to pass. Mother and daughter waited father and daughter and moved in to a house that his family had in abolition, a suburb of the North Zone. Not the Rio postcard, and Katie got a receptionist job at a hotel in Barra da Tijuca, the other end of town. Long bus trips every day. But she is satisfied.

"We pay me transport worth and power, give me health insurance and dental insurance for myself and my dependents, a basic basket of 60 real, I'm feeling superbem treated." For the price madness who took Rio, the salary is not high, 2000 reais (820 euros), with a weekly rest only, but her husband is now also employed by an NGO as a teacher of capoeira in a poor area.

"The cost of living is high in relation to what we earn, telephone, light, food," admits Katie. "But there was half the salary to pay the house. Here the lifestyle is better. All weekend weekend we go a cinema, a theater. In Portugal only attended theater school. And I like the work, I am able to stand me. In Portugal had never done a college, I was mother too early. And here already completed the first semester of physical education. "

To stay quiet just missing the permanent visa. "Every six months I have to go to the Federal Police put stamps. Despite my daughters have dual nationality, the bureaucracy is not as easy as saying. Birth certificates here, the role that ultimately does not fit there, pay do not know what "All because never married on paper with his" husband "Brazilian. "Perhaps it would be simpler, but force me to do something I am entitled is that do not. In Portugal already had a daughter and suspected it was an arranged marriage. "It would not be now that would marry. "I want to marry but if I please."

high finance

André Nogueira joined the two things: the will and the visa. Or rather, his Brazilian girlfriend joined him. He proposed that marry to fix it.

Financial consultant in São Paulo, André has exactly the same age as capoeiristas-receptionist Katie, 30, but comes from a very different medium. Only they know, grazed by this: when Andrew comes to Rio to work, the company housed in the luxury hotel where Katie works. They are on opposite sides of the counter.

In March 2008, Andrew was a young management consultant in Lisbon. "It was when they started the signs of the international crisis, and I began to think about changing something in my life." One of his former colleagues of the New University was already working in Brazil, André phoned him and he showed it to a process of recruitment. He came, was hired, returned to handle the change. "The visa has been the hardest thing. Already I had a contract and waited four months in Lisbon. It is a disturbing process. The company has to prove that there is a resource that can replace me. "In other words, a Brazilian who can perform the same functions.

I knew São Paulo? "I had come to work and did not like. But I came for the opportunity. It was a country that was growing too. People did not know what was the international crisis. And then I enjoyed more of. They are treated very well, they have great disposition. "

Live near the Vila Mariana, a nice neighborhood, "the six working metro stations or 40 minutes by car", which for São Paulo's great. Had several former colleagues in the city is settled quickly. One night a friend invited him to a feast of cheese and wine. "Then I met my wife. I left the elevator, I saw it, I fell in love immediately and she also. We dropped in never. "He Swinger groom single. "I was not looking for anything, it was totally unexpected. It is the Rio Grande do Sul, is seven years in São Paulo working as a chemical engineer. "They married a year later.

"One of the reasons was seen. We were good together and I wanted to leave the company where he was, but the visa depended on the contract. Then she looked at me and said, why do not you marry me "So it was, without ceremony, in São Paulo, and this summer, with ceremony in Lisbon?.

In the company where it is now, Andrew is dedicated to oil and telecommunications. His plan is to take advantage as much as possible the next boom years. And then back to Europe.

The woman has the dream of living in Paris. "We went there and she has such a way with the French that they become bearable beings," he quips. "We are planning to stay in Brazil three years, save money, and run away as soon as the Copa [Soccer 2014] ends before the hangover of public works." It is true that there will be the Olympic Games in 2016, but Andrew does not anticipate an economic paradise. "The National Petroleum Agency is doing a good job but do not have all the resources you need. I think the subsalt money will delay. "

The pre-salt is one of the Brazilian hopes: a sea range with 800 kilometers between the states of Espírito Santo and Santa Catarina, where oil was discovered to 7000 meters deep, beneath a layer of salt, which the geologists ensure their quality. Extract it will be an odyssey.

André cautions: "You have some reservation on optimism about Brazil. The boom of the recent years has been at the expense of increased price of commodities, products can be found throughout the world, iron ore, for example. As Brazil has a lot, it sells a lot, and the volume of resources in is significant. But it may be that the crisis in Europe affect the global economy and make falling commodity prices. "

Brazil's advantage is its size. "The domestic market is very large and social policies have spurred this advantage." Bringing to market millions of people who previously could not consume.

And meanwhile, a whole Portugal will flow into the Brazil. "It's amazing the amount of people arriving. Unthinkable. Connect me to ask how come. And at the end of 2010 they began to arrive families, were created groups on Facebook the new generation in Brazil. "

Speak illegal

The previous generation is the cliché of bakeries, restaurants, Portuguese usually without university education, that were "beyond the little land," as the Brazilians say.

Hard to know exactly how many there were and how many there are now. The Portuguese descendants exceed 860,000. As the number of Portuguese citizens walk "between 300 and 400 000" consular records, told Publico the advisor of the Embassy in Brasilia, Carlos Slim, pointing out that "this registration is not compulsory and many people do not do."

Thus the cake will be greater, and every six months there are more than 50 thousand applications of residence will grow dramatically. The delay of visas is a diplomatic result of the delays that Brazilians faced in Portugal. In a historical context, it is the opposite of an empire.

Moreover, while the crisis in Portugal is ugly, the pressure of illegal tend to grow. People who come on holiday and is. People who come to a stage and is.

That's what happened to the young architect Z., who can not be identified in this text precisely because it is illegal in Brazil. In a country that is already the 6th of the world economy and will have two sports mega-events, finance and construction are major employers. In addition to managers, engineers and many Portuguese architects have come or think coming.

In June 2010, Z. came to a stage in São Paulo. several years experience had a major "ateliers" of Lisbon. Only knew the river and the Northeast and never thought settle in Brazil. "15 days before the end of the stage, I realized I wanted to stay. Already it is beginning to say that things were bad in Portugal. And six months had not come to this scale. Chances were much higher than in Lisbon. I fell in love with this thing that still eludes me. I felt that there was a universe of things. Emotionally like this, to be Latin America and Portuguese-speaking, it can be Portuguese elsewhere. "

It was "a challenge and it was a promise." Start from scratch. "No one knew me." But in Brazil it is easier than in the United States. Even in Sao Paulo, without the "way" carioca. "And St. Paul had things that Rio had not. Things happen here, there is a greater professionalism, a willingness to produce. Rio is sweeter and softer. "

After the stage, he called a Brazilian architect who estagiara the "atelier" of Lisbon. Years before, he had been to interview her. Now she was to help you get an interview. It was as agreed upon, salary of 5,000 reais (two thousand euros), from 9h to 18h.

"It was one of those 'ateliers' big, beautiful, with friendly and interesting people who dictate the current taste, rich people houses, expensive shops." European architecture has to dialogue with an entire heritage. "But St. Paul is a brand new city, it all happened in the 40s and 50s with the boom of the industry. It is a city that is always changing. "What's interesting for an architect. But the domain of the new domestic money boldness.

"The issue of money is very visible. Houses with wet sauna, dry sauna, gyms, garages do not know how many cars, golf courses, tennis courts. "Houses of several million. "Now I'm doing one with 1900 square meters. The project has to always solve a given scenario. It's almost a sweeten the modernist models, which at the time had a policy framework. "Niemeyer, a communist. "It's as if these models were now used only as an image of power demonstrations of wealth."

Since the "atelier" that works for all these millionaires "had only three people hired two maids and a secretary." Z. could not have a contract there to treat visa, so he decided to go for a "workshop" similar, but smaller, which in January will begin to address with him the hiring process. Win now 6,000 reais (2,460 euros).

But throughout this year being illegal was a strain. "Brazil Inside ask me the passport only to identify, but I get stressed about it. And I can not go to Portugal, if not then how do I enter? If you are caught here give me a few days to leave the country and then I have to stay six months without return. "

Getting married is an option? "If you were to date someone, I think getting married to have seen. But would not marry just to be seen, not riding a theater "You know who did, and there is always the risk of examination:. See the cabinets, holiday pictures, talk to the doormen.

But unlike Andrew Z. wants to stay. "I did not care to become Brazilian. There are things I miss: a meal, or go for a terrace without being a consumer. But nothing that occupies me a lot of the head. "

Still divided house with two Portuguese, another architect and a company advisor. Four rooms in the chic Jardim Paulista why pay 3900 reais (1600 euros). In Portugal he lived alone in a bigger house. But in Portugal, says Z., spoken by 40% of unemployment among architects.

A avalanche dos novos portugueses no Brasil - PÚBLICO
 
Old 03-07-2016, 01:19 PM
 
990 posts, read 881,658 times
Reputation: 477
How you can read in this main Portuguese news paper Brazil is not so underdeveloped country how it is labeled especially when compared with borderline first world countries like Portugal or Greece or how you are classifying now also Chile.

Remember we are talking about Portugal a Europe Union member, first world country with hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants in Brazil looking for jobs of 800 euros.

The standard of life and incomes in Brazil is not inferior than in Chile with the difference that in Brazil education and healthcare is free and universal and in Chile not. Brazilian are just found in Chile like tourist not like illegal immigrants and we don’t need passport to enter there just present Brazilian ID at borders office.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Seoul
11,554 posts, read 9,329,863 times
Reputation: 4660
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVANGELISTTI View Post
How you can read in this main Portuguese news paper Brazil is not so underdeveloped country how it is labeled especially when compared with borderline first world countries like Portugal or Greece or how you are classifying now also Chile.

Remember we are talking about Portugal a Europe Union member, first world country with hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants in Brazil looking for jobs of 800 euros.

The standard of life and incomes in Brazil is not inferior than in Chile with the difference that in Brazil education and healthcare is free and universal and in Chile not. Brazilian are just found in Chile like tourist not like illegal immigrants and we don’t need passport to enter there just present Brazilian ID at borders office.
Some parts of Brazil look really terrible though. On Google Street Views, Northeast Brazilian cities have buildings surrounded by like two-story high gates, which seems really scary. Even when I visited the bad parts of Lima, Peru, I've never seen fences that high

But some places in Brazil do look really good, I think Belo Horizonte and Sao Paulo are very modern and nice
 
Old 03-07-2016, 01:58 PM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,900,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Its funny how the Portuguese first raid and exploit Brazil for their own economic purposes and suddenly after the tables have turned and there are no jobs in Portugal, now they are all coming to the country which they helped to destroy. Wow

The Portuguese and Brazilians in general have a good relationship just so you know.

What do you mean by a country they helped destroy? The Portuguese that exploited Brazil immigrated to and settled in Brazil and the current Brazilians are their descendants along the the Nobility and the Monarchy. The current population of Portugal are the descendants of the Portuguese that didn't immigrate or "exploit" think about it. Unless you are counting a few monuments that survived the 1755 Lisbon earthquake. Brazil has been independent nearly 200 years I suppose you are suggesting they should have a victim mentality.

In addition there are economic migrants in Portugal that are Brazilians. I'm not sure what your trying to stir up but you aren't familiar with the dynamics and the two peoples in general get along well.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Seoul
11,554 posts, read 9,329,863 times
Reputation: 4660
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
The Portuguese and Brazilians in general have a good relationship just so you know.

What do you mean by a country they helped destroy? The Portuguese that exploited Brazil immigrated to and settled in Brazil and the current Brazilians are their descendants along the the Nobility and the Monarchy. The current population of Portugal are the descendants of the Portuguese that didn't immigrate or "exploit" think about it. Unless you are counting a few monuments that survived the 1755 Lisbon earthquake. Brazil has been independent nearly 200 years I suppose you are suggesting they should have a victim mentality.

In addition there are economic migrants in Portugal that are Brazilians. I'm not sure what your trying to stir up but you aren't familiar with the dynamics and the two peoples in general get along well.
You know what I mean. They invaded Brazil and wiped out the indigenous population and brought slavery there! There were people in Brazil before the Portuguese came, you know
 
Old 03-07-2016, 09:15 PM
AFP
 
7,412 posts, read 6,900,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
You know what I mean. They invaded Brazil and wiped out the indigenous population and brought slavery there! There were people in Brazil before the Portuguese came, you know
Yep like I said the people who participated in that are the ancestors of the Brazilians. They were our relatives though that's how it was back then, sad but nothing to be ashamed of. I don't take responsibility for what I didn't do have no guilt whatsoever.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 09:59 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,489,233 times
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lol chile is just the best of the worst
 
Old 03-08-2016, 06:56 AM
 
990 posts, read 881,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Some parts of Brazil look really terrible though. On Google Street Views, Northeast Brazilian cities have buildings surrounded by like two-story high gates, which seems really scary. Even when I visited the bad parts of Lima, Peru, I've never seen fences that high

But some places in Brazil do look really good, I think Belo Horizonte and Sao Paulo are very modern and nice
Northeast is the poorest area of Brazil, but if you look the poorest areas of Peru (the countryside of Peru) it so much poorer than northeast of Brazil… the level of poverty that is find is similar of Africa.

Northeast of Brazil always was for Brazil what south states like Mississippi or Louisiana are for the States, very poor specially in rural areas (for their countries standard), they have similar history. The northeast of Brazil improve a lot in the last two decades but the gap is very big yet.
 
Old 03-08-2016, 07:28 AM
 
990 posts, read 881,658 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
Yep like I said the people who participated in that are the ancestors of the Brazilians. They were our relatives though that's how it was back then, sad but nothing to be ashamed of. I don't take responsibility for what I didn't do have no guilt whatsoever.
Many Brazilian probably have their background of those Portuguese of course BUT they DID what THEY DID working for the PORTUGUESE EMPIRE!! That is what are you ‘’forgetting’’ of tell to fellas here.

So if we think that ‘’Portuguese in Brazil’’ (first Brazilians) fought against the EMPIRE since early years of my country and Portuguese in Portugal (your ancient) supported the PORTUGUESE EMPIRE and their politics… Yes you have to shame of what they did in America slavery exterminated millions of native American and etc.

I am a impartial analyst because I descending just from recent immigration to Brazil.
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