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View Poll Results: Do you think they should build a highway through the Darien Gap?
Yes 14 38.89%
No 22 61.11%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-18-2016, 10:19 AM
 
Location: In transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattangirl View Post
No.

First the highway, then the Starbucks....
There are no Starbucks or McDonald's on the Dalton Highway in Alaska as a comparison... just saying...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton_Highway
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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Lightbulb ...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by manhattangirl View Post
No.

First the highway, then the Starbucks....
I got to wonder when we want to perserve a part of the world is it always for the best interest of the actual people that live around there or are we just trying to maintain some sort of live human museum ex look this is how people use to live 100s of years ago before technology. I am sure there are valid pros and cons to having or not having the highway, but in all honesty I am sure some of the people around there might like Starbuck lol. You don't know until you ask and they won't know until they get a chance to try it !
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joacocanal View Post
no. it's one of the most biodiverse places on Earth, it's very fragile.

ferry system or something.
Per Wikipedia, the Darien Gap is about 160 km long and about 50 km wide. Thus, in very rough terms, its area is about 8,000 square km.

A two-lane road is about 8 meters wide. Thus, a road through this area (again, speaking very roughly) would occupy about 1.28 square km in a long, but very narrow line. This would be about 0.016% of the total land area.

I just find it very, very hard to imagine that this area is so fragile that it couldn't handle having such a teeny-tiny portion of it covered in blacktop.

As for the other issues involved (politics, local inhabitants, drug smuggling, etc.) I have no idea and thus express no opinion.
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:45 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Per Wikipedia, the Darien Gap is about 160 km long and about 50 km wide. Thus, in very rough terms, its area is about 8,000 square km.

A two-lane road is about 8 meters wide. Thus, a road through this area (again, speaking very roughly) would occupy about 1.28 square km in a long, but very narrow line. This would be about 0.016% of the total land area.

I just find it very, very hard to imagine that this area is so fragile that it couldn't handle having such a teeny-tiny portion of it covered in blacktop.

As for the other issues involved (politics, local inhabitants, drug smuggling, etc.) I have no idea and thus express no opinion.
The problem is it's not just the teeny tiny line but the accessibility. That teeny tiny line will encourage even teenier tiny lines to sprout out in mud roads connecting to the main highway. Miners, farmers and people in general move in to land grab and damage the rainforest as as happened the world over.

You obviously have no clue what damage one road could do. Take a satelite look at Rondonia in Brazil and you'll get my point.
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Old 07-18-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: In transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
The problem is it's not just the teeny tiny line but the accessibility. That teeny tiny line will encourage even teenier tiny lines to sprout out in mud roads connecting to the main highway. Miners, farmers and people in general move in to land grab and damage the rainforest as as happened the world over.

You obviously have no clue what damage one road could do. Take a satelite look at Rondonia in Brazil and you'll get my point.
Why couldn't they turn the whole Darien Gap into a national park and make it illegal to exploit the land and only allow ecotourism? Banff national park is the oldest park in Canada and it has a highway through it and even has wildlife bridges for bears and other animals to cross it so they don't become roadkill. You could do the same thing here and I think it would work.
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Old 07-18-2016, 04:49 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Why couldn't they turn the whole Darien Gap into a national park and make it illegal to exploit the land and only allow ecotourism? Banff national park is the oldest park in Canada and it has a highway through it and even has wildlife bridges for bears and other animals to cross it so they don't become roadkill. You could do the same thing here and I think it would work.
Good idea, however Colombia needs more control over it's wildernesses of which it has way too many and needs much more economic resources before it even entertains the idea. Maybe in the future when Colombia is more socio-economically developed. Maybe by then vehicles as we know them today won't be the same and we can teleport where we want like star trek or ride a tube like Futurama.

For now my answer is still NO to the highway.
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Old 07-18-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: In transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Good idea, however Colombia needs more control over it's wildernesses of which it has way too many and needs much more economic resources before it even entertains the idea. Maybe in the future when Colombia is more socio-economically developed. Maybe by then vehicles as we know them today won't be the same and we can teleport where we want like star trek or ride a tube like Futurama.

For now my answer is still NO to the highway.
Canada is far larger and has way more wilderness than Colombia with a lower population. It is a richer country but even so.. Colombia is a middle income country. If the Darien is so important to protect for Colombia, why don't they put more financial resources there than for other places?
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:18 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Canada is far larger and has way more wilderness than Colombia with a lower population. It is a richer country but even so.. Colombia is a middle income country. If the Darien is so important to protect for Colombia, why don't they put more financial resources there than for other places?
Canada may be bigger than Colombia but whereas Canada is predominantly flat and has all its population concentrated in the border region, Colombia has three mountain ranges that go beyond 5km in height and dissect the country from north to south separating the Amazon, the tropical Savannah, the Pacific rainforest (i.e where Darien gap is) and the Caribbean basin. You don't get nothing like that separating practically every city in Canada do you? Plus every eco-region is important in Colombia (Amazon, Andes, Pacific, Savannah, Desert, Caribbean) not just the Darien gap. That's a lot to police with the limited resources not to mention the narco-violent militias supplying coke so that Europeans and North Americans can snort their neurons away.


Colombia Relieve by Pueblo Fuerte, on Flickr

And also Canada may be massive but as you said sparsely populated and it's not like Colombia is that small either...


Colombia True size by Pueblo Fuerte, on Flickr

http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!...NDcwNQ(MjI1)Mg
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:34 PM
 
Location: In transition
10,635 posts, read 16,699,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pueblofuerte View Post
Canada may be bigger than Colombia but whereas Canada is predominantly flat and has all its population concentrated in the border region, Colombia has three mountain ranges that go beyond 5km in height and dissect the country from north to south separating the Amazon, the tropical Savannah, the Pacific rainforest (i.e where Darien gap is) and the Caribbean basin. You don't get nothing like that separating practically every city in Canada do you? Plus every eco-region is important in Colombia (Amazon, Andes, Pacific, Savannah, Desert, Caribbean) not just the Darien gap. That's a lot to police with the limited resources not to mention the narco-violent militias supplying coke so that Europeans and North Americans can snort their neurons away.


Colombia Relieve by Pueblo Fuerte, on Flickr

And also Canada may be massive but as you said sparsely populated and it's not like Colombia is that small either...


Colombia True size by Pueblo Fuerte, on Flickr

http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!...NDcwNQ(MjI1)Mg
Yes I know Colombia is fairly large and has many diverse ecosystems but you made it sound that the highway isn't being built because there is a perception in Colombia that the tiny Darien Gap is far more diverse and important than other Colombian ecosystems. If these other ecosystems can have roads through them connecting cities and towns to each other, what is the big deal with making a highway through the Darien Gap especially if you make it a national park first and not allow any development or resource extraction?

And FWIW, British Columbia alone does have 3 mountain ranges running through it also: Coast Range, Cascades and Rockies with a valley and plateau in between each but they are not as tall as the Andes.
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Old 07-18-2016, 06:42 PM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deneb78 View Post
Yes I know Colombia is fairly large and has many diverse ecosystems but you made it sound that the highway isn't being built because there is a perception in Colombia that the tiny Darien Gap is far more diverse and important than other Colombian ecosystems. If these other ecosystems can have roads through them connecting cities and towns to each other, what is the big deal with making a highway through the Darien Gap especially if you make it a national park first and not allow any development or resource extraction?
There are no important ecosystems in Colombia that have highways going through them aside from Cienaga Grande on the Caribbean coast which was a complete disaster and the Andean plateau where Bogota sits which is also a disaster for the wetlands there.

I've said this twice before and I repeat the Darien Gap is not a standalone entity, it's a simple name to illustrate the natural barrier between the continents. It's part of the wider and very diverse rainforest called the Choco rainforest which stretches across Colombia from north to south along its Pacific coast.
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