Couple with young child looking to move to South/Central America (best, life)

[JakeinChina]

We're 40 years old, I'm from the U.S. and wife is from China. We have a 5 year old daughter. We have issues with our daughters green card process for the U.S. (complicated adoption matter) and we currently live in Southern China. I'm working and our daughter goes to an expensive international school here in China, which my company pays.


In three years, we'll be looking to move out of China (maybe sooner if I lost my job) and hopefully can get our paperwork in order and be processed for U.S. visa's. There is a chance we have more complications, and (esp if I was unemployed) we would need to move somewhere. Public schools in China is something I do not want my child to attend, and if my company isn't paying the 22k USD annual tuition for international, along with 2500 USD in rent, I'd rather move to another country. We looked at Ireland and Canada, but it seems very challenging to immigrate to those countries, esp given my daughter is still on a China passport.


I researched a couple of South and Central American countries to spend two or three years in, while we await the U.S. visa outcome. I think Ecuador and Panama are top on the list, as they both offer a lot and are inexpensive (compared to developed countries). What's important to us is...


Safety
Good schools - Willing to pay up to 10K usd for a International/Christian/private school
Inexpensive for rent, utilities and groceries (3k to 4k usd budget)
Expat community
Chinese/Asian grocery market


One of the biggest issues living now in Southern China is we don't have much of a social life. I prefer getting into a circle of friends who speak English, so having long term Expats in a S/C America country would be great, plus my wife nor I speak any Spanish. We're young enough and willing to learn, but I don't see us getting deep into the local culture or making tons of local friends.


We have rental income each month of 5500 USD (employment isn't a concern now), but for a monthly budget I don't want to really go over 4k USD, if I don't have to. We like new, we aren't really the backpacker or explorer types. We live in China so we don't have expectations like many American's do of big kitchens and everything has to be like America, but at the same time we don't want to rough it.


We're totally new to this region of the world, and would love to hear suggestions. Thanks for your help!

[Chava61]

In 1996/7 I worked and lived in Guayaquil (the largest city in the country), Ecuador. I visited there again a year and half ago. Some areas of the city are safe during the day but most areas are not safe for walking around at night due to potential muggings. I also don't think there is a large English speaking expat community there either. But there are good bilingual (English/Spanish) schools there and I would guess housing and other expenses are within your range. On the other hand, Cuenca (the 3rd largest city in Ecuador) does seem to have a large expat community but I don't know much about the life there.

[Pueblofuerte]

Firstly, what is your reason for disapproving of the Chinese education system? China is ranked well above all Latin American countries in education and well above the United States also.

I would say Ecuador is a good match especially due to the fact that Visa requirements for Chinese nationals are easier. It's the only country in Latin America that has tourist visa free entry for Chinese nationals, which means you can suss it out for 3 months before committing to anything. Cuenca is a hot-spot for expats which satisfies the ex-pat community you're looking for.

With regards to education, Panama is at the bottom of the regional table closely followed by Ecuador and Peru.
Despite the education issue, Peru is another possible option as there is a large Chinese community there and plenty of Chinese markets. Peru is also cheaper than both, especially Panama which is increasingly expensive, however Panama is also the fastest growing economy in the region which should be taken into account if you're looking to be employed locally.

In terms of education and healthcare (which should also be a major concern), a country like Colombia offers more. Colombia is the number one ranked country in healthcare in Latin America, it ranks as a top 25 country in the world according to the World Health Organisation, fares better than Brazil in Maths, Science & Reading and better than Mexico in the two latter at secondary level education and has 4 top 500 global ranked universities, Ecuador and Panama have none.

As for Visa requirements. The easiest way is going for an investor visa by buying property. Ecuador is the easiest country for this requiring only a $25,000 investment in real estate + $500 for each dependant in order to obtain a resident visa with restrictions of no-more than 90 days out of the country in the first 2 years.

Panama does not give residency visas for buying real estate except for the government sponsored reforestation visa which requires at least $80,000 to buy a minimum of 5 hectares of titled land. Thus far you can expect an 11.5% return on your investment over 10 years. You could also get a business visa but this requires an investment of at least $160,000. For both visas you would need to add another $2,000 per dependant.

Colombia also has a TP-7 visa which allows you to reside in Colombia and apply for a residency after 5 years. This requires an investment of about $90,000 in real estate or $26,000 in a business. You could skip the TP-7 visa and invest $165,000 for a 5 year residency visa after which you can apply for citizenship.

Peru requires an investment of $155,000 unspecified for a temporary residence visa.

This is a good video I've found on cost of living an quality of life in a city like Medellin, Colombia - I recommend you see it as it will give you a detailed regional reference. There is one relatively unknown city in Colombia called Bucaramanga which has one of the best quality of life of any city in Latin America. The schools of Nuevo Cambridge and La Quinta Paredes are the best schools money can buy in the entire northern South America and Central America region.

However, all things considered I think Ecuador would be your best bet, especially Cuenca, Quito or Loja, Guayaquil not so much.

[MarisaAnna]

Have you looked at Australia? You presumably are in a professional job, speak English and are relatively young. That would give you quite a few points.

[JakeinChina]

Thank you all for the reply, esp Pueblo for putting in the time. I know Peru has a big Chinese community, so I will look further into there. Columbia, I've heard so many positive things, esp Medellin (I'll watch the video after work today), but it just makes me nervous probably because of all of the past problems they've had with violence. I know the current government is very sound, and the country in growing rapidly, so perhaps I'll look further.


My wife suggested Australia, so yes its possible. Living off of 5500 USD might be a bit of a challenge in Australia though, so I'd need to research COL in suburbs of big cities.


I prefer Ireland if we went the developed country route, just because I've been there many times and really feel comfortable there, as does my wife. The Ireland investor visa is 2 million Euro net worth and you need to invest 1 million Euro's in a gov't bond, then after 3 years get the money back. That's a huge investment, but I guess we need to see where we want to be for the rest of our lives, and if the U.S. visa for our daughter ever becomes available.

[JakeinChina]

@Pueblo, The issue I have with the China education system is complicated to explain. One side their is the HuKou system, which is the national residency ID for every Chinese person. Unless you purchase a home and adjust your residency to a specific city that you want you child to attend, its very difficult to get your child enrolled in the good schools near our home. The house prices are very high in large cities in China, and the cheapest place in our neighborhood would be a 2 bedroom for around 1 million dollars, which I don't want to invest that much in China. Even with the purchase of a home near the school we want, it still doesn't mean we have the right to attend that school.


Secondly, and honestly, I don't want my daughter growing up in China. The people are good people, but are very ignorant. The fact that my daughter has a Chinese mother and an American father is an issue, and there would be challenges she faces from kids in public schools. Now she goes to an international school, so its a non-issue.


Difficult for me to further explain, but we already have enough challenges with some of the comments the adults make in the street when I'm with my daughter. I can only imagine what children would think/say. I don't want to add to the pressures of my daughter growing up. Its tough enough being a kid. Thanks

[cebuan]

I have a fefw observations that don't fully answer your questions, but might be helkpful.

Once in South America, I was in a conversation with several school teachers. I asked, which country in SA has the best schools and highest standards of education. They answered, practically in unison, Colombia,and looked at each other and nodded. So take that for what it's worth.

You are probably going to wind up spending at least part of the time with "visa run" immigration status. You live near a border, and every time your tourist stamp expires, you take the bus to the border and re-enter, starting a new three or six months. I stayed long term in Guatemala and Chile doing that.

I have a theory about education, that you can take or leave, I wont be offended. Intelligent parents who really care, will see to it that their children get a high quality education, regardless of the quality of the school. Schools don't really give pupils an education, they just provide an opportunity for an educational experience. It's up to the children to take it, and to their parents to inspire them to do so. There are PhD's in America who, as children in their homeland, were educated under a tree.

[MarisaAnna]

If other ideas do not work out, do not discount Australia. For one thing, inter racial relationships are very much the norm. At least half of our friends have adult children married to Asians; Chinese, Cambodian, Indian, Sri Lankan, Phillipino Vietnamese. I would be surprised if any of you attracted any comments and looks.

Secondly the public schools are often very good and in NSW we have academically selective high schools which are nearly full of Asian students. But the private schools receive a large amount of government funding, for historical reasons, and the private school network is both tightly policed and extensive.

However I imagine you would need to try to get a skills visa if you have eligible skills. I am not sure of the cost of investor visas but I think they are high. Yes the cost of living is high but if you have the appropriate visa, you get healthcare and also some family payments, subject to income.

Also, if it is important, it is quick and cheap to travel to China, with increasing numbers of carriers and destinations all the time.

[Pueblofuerte]

Got you on your concerns re: Chinese social attitudes, school catchment area restraints - agreed not all is academic achievement and an environment of open mindedness is important.

Personally the Australia route provides way too many obstacles. 1. Points based immigration system. 2. High cost of living.
3. Investment visa is expensive and comes with too many clauses. Although undoubtedly it's a great country with a good education system and quality of life.

I see you're looking at long term possibilities. Ireland is fantastic, there's actually a kinship between Ireland and a lot of Latin American countries. Same tight knit family construct (catholic culture if you will), strong social drinking culture and just a general joie de vivre or the crack as they say.

In that case what about Spain? It requires a $615,000 or (500,000euro) investment in real estate for the whole family and as an EU citizen you can live/work/study in Ireland no restrictions. Quality of education is good, healthcare is among the best in the world and cost of living and quality of life is cheap and the economy/property market is beginning to recover. You can find a fabulous property in Spain for that money.

I would strongly suggest you give a Spanish speaking country a few years, the gift you would be giving your daughter of learning the world's three most widely spoken languages in the world would be an immense advantage. Re: Safety in Colombia, if you have ever lived in cities like Miami, Philadelphia, Chicago, Atlanta, Memphis or Washington D.C you should be able to adapt in all of Colombia's major cities aside from Cali which is still experiencing substantial turmoil although not much more than the worst cities in the US i.e. Detroit, St. Louis, Baltimore.

[AntonioR]

If you don't mind a tourist destination, Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic is a good option.

There's a sizeable expatriate community (mostly professionals) in the area. Plenty of Europeans (mostly Spaniards, French, Italians, and Russians; with a sprinkling of British, Germans, and Euros from other places) and North Americans living in the area. Many well educated and well off Dominicans are also moving to the area and making it their permanent home, many of them speak English too. Some famous people that spend at least part of the year in their private residences in Punta Cana are Mikhail Baryshnikov, Henry Kissinger, Julio Iglesias, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia of Spain, among others.

Its airport has the greatest connections to North America and Europe of any airport in Latin America. Most modern conveniences are readily available in the immediate area and anything that might be missing can be found a mere 2 hours away in Santo Domingo, the capital.

The residential options are also very nice and some of the best private schools are available in the area.

The best part is that Punta Cana is a stone throw away from mainland USA. Roughly 2 hours flight to Miami and 3 hours and change to NYC, which I think is something else you are looking for.

Good advice for anyone thinking about living in Punta Cana part or full time:


Bavaro Beach (where most tourists go):


Juanillo Beach (the best kept secret, aka where most tourists don't go yet its the nicest looking beach in the area):


Playa Blanca (this is within The Estates at Puntacana residential complex):


Macao Beach (this is by the Hard Rock Resort, which is on the most northern part of the area. As you can see, in that area the beach is nice but not as nice as further south in Bavaro and Punta Cana proper):


General views of a typical upper middle class gated community in the area (some are inhabited mostly by Dominicans, such as the one in this video; while others are dominated by foreigners from Europe, North and South America):


Cap Cana Heritage School, one of the main private schools in the area and considered one of the best in the country:


This is what it looks like in Bavaro, the main area of the Punta Cana area. In this video you can see some of the residential areas of the middle class:


This is Cocotal, a gated community in Bavaro:


Frank Rainieri, a Dominican from Puerto Plata (on the north coast) that is considered to be 'The Father of Punta Cana' because he started to develop the area back in 1970's when the only thing there was a jungle and the beach. No one believed in him during the first 20 years or so, even the Dominican government turn their back on him. He had to scratch a living off his dream. A very tough existence for a very long time. 40 years later, he's amazed at what has been accomplished. He owns the Punta Cana International Airport and the Puntacana Resort area, the Blue Mall Punta Cana, The Estates gated communities, among many other things. Because of him Punta Cana exist. He has become one of the richest men in the Dominican Republic and due to his integrity, hard work, and dedication when most people thought he was crazy for starting a tiny resort in the middle of a jungle, I think he deserves every penny of his fortune. He's also a strong believer in being environmentally friendly and run his businesses on this model (including the airport) and treats his employees with good pay and much needed respect.


Some of the main shopping plazas in the area:

Palma Real Shopping Village


San Juan Shopping Center


Amateur tour of Blue Mall Punta Cana (in Spanish)