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it seems that there is a "Great migration" of black Colombians to urban areas now. This plus the internet means we'll probably see more acknowledgement and representation of black Colombians.
NEGRA/NEGRO 2,9
AFRODESCENDIENTE 0,7
MORENA/MORENO 51,6
BLANCA/BLANCO 43,6
OTRA 1,2
I find it interesting that people would find some sort of difference in identifying as "Afro" as opposed to "Negro". I wish we had Venezuelans here on the thread to contribute, but alas we might be left with educated guesses. I could ask somebody here, but I´m not sure they´d get it either. It´s also interesting that you can identify as "Moreno", that´s not an option in Colombia.
One thing is certain, self-concepts change soo much from country to country. The same Mexican-American kid is a Chicano to one person, a Mexican to another and a gringo to yet another. An American girl I knew working for the Peace Corps in Santa Marta was dating a local guy, self-identified as "Moreno", and they´d often have lengthy discussions about famous people in the US as to whether they were moreno or black, and even amongst the boyfriend and his family, the answers would vary and the justifications for their answers sometimes conflicted.
People are funny.
one interesting thing from that link is how they define those racial groups:
Quote:
Negra/Negro: Es toda persona de piel fuertemente pigmentada, pelo muy rizado, nariz
achatada y labios gruesos. Puede tener prácticas culturales de origen africano, aún cuando
no las identifique como tales.
Afrodescendiente: Descendientes de africanos y/o africanas que sobrevivieron a la trata
negrera, a la esclavitud y forman parte de la diáspora africana en las Américas y el Caribe
y/o es aquella persona que reconoce en si misma la descendencia africana sobre la base de
su percepción, valoración y ponderación de los componentes históricos, generacionales,
territoriales, culturales y/o fenotípicos.
Morena/Moreno: Es toda persona cuyas características fenotípicas son menos marcadas o
pronunciadas que de la persona definida como negra o negro. Es un término que en algunos
contextos puede ser utilizado para suavizar las implicaciones discriminatorias que conlleva
ser una persona negra.
If that were to be published in any official government documentation i.e .gob.co, there would be hell to pay. It's completely unacceptable not to mention substantially inaccurate. Not all Negroids have the "nariz achatada".
Also the fact that only 0.7% recognise as "es aquella persona que reconoce en si misma la descendencia africana sobre la base de su percepción", tells a story in itself.
Again that's your limited US/Anglo influenced point of view. The rest of Latin America never viewed Colombia like Mexico.
Also many ordinary Colombians didn't even know Colombia had black people - or in great numbers anyway. It was a distant thought not present in people's every day lives.
.
een.
Chocó is indeed a poor representation of Colombian prosperity but they have it! Legally its theirs and no-one elses. The US or Brazil have no equivalence. It will rise now that Chocoanos are becoming educated and Colombia is becoming a wealthier nation so some of that trickle down phenomenon the US experienced this past century can finally happen in the Pacific coast with the added development of the democratisation of information and technology. Quibdó has a new airport a new university research centre in biology and the Chinese are interested in many investments along the Pacifiic Coast but as always it will be up to the Chocoano community themselves to determine the future of their region and if the black diaspora wants to help out instead of belittle them as you have done in the past, then that too would be appreciated.
Colombia has never been a powerful nation, at most it's been a mid-power with a potential to become a geo-political power the likes of Saudi Arabia but it was besieged by lawlessness that has caused the internal displacement of 7.7 million people. Until now it only showed some strength around the 40's, early 50's last century but that dissapated quickly. Only now has it had more control over its narrative to promote itself on the global stage hence the huge pick-up in tourism (800+% since 2002) and the economy.
1. What is the % of Choco that is "black"? 80%+. Is there any state in the USA which is like this? No! If Choco was 30% black (that of the USA's blackest states) would land rights have been conceded to them? NO! Why has Choco been so neglected if your Colombian government is so "pro black?" I will argue that its very "blackness" is why it has received no priority until recently, and of course now with the Chinese sniffing around there will be greater spending in infrastructure to attract these investors.
And why are people from Choco over represented among the internally displaced if Choco "belongs" to them? What help are they been given in dealing with those who wished to push them off their lands? Cite sources from the 1990s, because since then the world is aware of this and has put pressure on the Colombian government, which complies as it is now determined to present itself as a nation of stability, given its fairly recent past of being one of mayhem.
2. So you admit that Colombians exist who aren't aware of the size of the black population, even though it is CONSERVATIVELY estimated at 11%, so as large as that of the USA. Why is it? You're not going to find an America ignorant of the size of its black population given the high visibility of blacks in US media. Even in Montana they are aware so that regional explanation doesnt fly. Clearly they are invisible as the nation promotes itself as a white/mestizo one.
So why your rant that only "ignorant" Anglo Saxons aren't aware of Colombia's large black population? Prior to 2000 how visible were they outside of music and sports? Of course the USA has had a visibly "black" president who was elected. As far as I know only the DR (with its 80% Afro descended population) has had this in Latin America. Costa Rica elected a black VP and its notable that she is of West Indian origin.
3. At the present time in the Americas Colombia falls behind only the USA, Brazil, Canada, Mexico and (maybe) Argentina in its power. It is strong enough to determine its narrative and global image. It does so by showing its white/mestizo populations and hiding its black ones, except the Palenqueros who are used for touristic purposes. Hardly anyone remembers that a scant 25 years ago one didn't visit unless one planned to pay for body guards. Clearly Colombia has had the clout to remove all lagging images, as perception normally lags reality.
4. Most black Colombians live outside of Choco and dont seem to be flocking there, even as many have their origins in that region. NO shock given its backwardness and isolation.. Why not the same energies to assist the black Colombians to penetrate main stream public/private sector entities? Given that most live outside of Choco with many in Colombia's urban centers this would seem to make more sense.
5. Glad that you admit that the growing media presence of black Americans, as well as the growing awareness of black Latin Americans that a successful cadre of African Americans exist, has greatly enhanced the success of various black empowerment movements in places like Colombia and Brazil. Its not a coincidence that finally since around 2000 there seems to be growing progress in discussing issues of racism, and to reduce the exclusion of its Afro descended populations, at least in those nations where increasingly strong black empowerment movements exist.
CaribNY is not brainwashed. He’s been to a number of Latin American countries and just was not overall impressed.
That’s okay. He is entitled to his opinion.
Basically because some Afro-Latinos don’t call themselves Black
and CaribNY is stuck with the label as a West Indian hr hates anything to do with Latin America.
It has nothing to do with Hollywood and everything do amount the relations among people of color and immigrants in NYC.
Funny thing. You are the one who gets a melt down if a person with visible African ancestry doesnt call themselves "black". When I stated that no one knows what the "black" population of Brazil as, because there is no agreed definition as to what being "black" is, and that many Afro Brazilians self identify with a mixed identity, you demanded evidence of this. Even as virtually every description of Brazil indicates this.
Even in the non Hispanic Caribbean when I stated that we too had a "mixed" category, you claimed that they were deluded. This even after I told you that they bonded with their white ancestry because they had great advantages over the blacks and so no one, neither they nor the blacks, saw them as being "black".
Then you claimed that every Afro Colombian, whether looking like Alicia Keyes (who would probably try to deny, or trivialize any Afro connection) through to one looking like Wesley Snipes will all organize around a singular identity. This even when I told you of the difficulties that the Colombian government had when it attempted to tabulate its Afro descended population, having to through in "mixed" categories to get a reasonable count.
You are the one who has an issue with how people self identify. In my world Adam Clayton Powell is not black, even though he didn't have any recent white ancestors.
This week a memorabilia of Celia Cruz was put on display at the Eduardo Brito National Theater in Santo Domingo. This is the most important theater in the DR. This is the same place she received a Premio Casandra in 1996 (today they are known as Premio Soberano because descendants of Casandra Damirón prohibited that her name be used.)
She said in several interviews that she liked the DR because of all the countries she visited it felt the most to her native Cuba (the culture, even the natural scenery in much of the DR is very similar to what exist in Cuba.) She refused to visit Cuba while Fidel Castro ruled and she died never stepping foot in her native land.
Two songs where she mentions the DR. It should also be said that both of these songs are in Merengue, one of the national genres of the DR.
In this one completely about the DR, she sings with Johnny Pacheco (Dominican.)
* She left her birth country of Cuba after the communist takeover and her dream was to return to Cuba once the Castro’s regime was toppled.
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