Is Ann Arbor the only area in that area doing good? (sales, employment)

[Coldjensens]

Let's not forget though;

Hell is not too far outside Ann Arbor. That place is really . . . well. . . hellish!

[deslok]

Drugs are everywhere. What would be scarier to me than Ann Arbor ( which is the least scary place, one of them, in the entire US) would be drug users in smaller Michigan cities. There are no police or anyone on these po dunk back roads. Even Kalamazoo in areas where there isn't much of a civilization, driving around can be survival of the fittest. You are lucky to get a police officer around in time to be safe!
To me the larger the population of the city, the more at home and safe it feels.

[famlife]

i guess it's just personal experience. it seems like most of my old friends from the area are either on crack, heroin or are dead or sick because of. people you wouldn't suspect. maybe they are just unlucky, but it's the general concensus among the people i talk to, that it's a pretty widespread problem in the area among 15-30-something yr olds.

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by Sociologist

I'm not sure if there is a "direct" correlation between the unemployment rate and percentage of college graduates,

Well IIRC, nationwide, there is a strong correlation between level of education and unemployment rate. Not just right now - it's always that way. As a side note, I think it's obvious that a more highly educated population is going to make for a better economy. But I don't think overall unemployment rate is a good way to tell between one city and another, when they really differ in educational demographics. A better indicator might be the unemployment rate for high school graduates who do not have a degree, but I don't know, that's just a guess.

[Cato the Elder]

Yep, there was an interview on WDET the other day that discussed where Detroit and MI are lagging behind. Basically, the places doing best are ones with at least 30-40% of the workforce having 4-year degrees, especially recent grads attracted from all over the country. These creative people are the ones driving their economies. Seattle has around 50% of their workforce like this, Detroit has 10%. Ann Arbor isn't doing very well when you count educated HOUSEHOLDS.

MI as a state was ranked in the upper teens at one point but it has slipped into the upper 20s (average) and will likely slide into the 30s (below average) before long. Where do you find these creative people? First, they are in areas with populations over 500k living in dense urban areas - sorry Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Lansing. These smaller cities will not save MI. For everyone who wants to lop off Detroit and cast it off, MI will become Iowa at best if this happens. Notice I didn't say warm cities. The Twin cities and Madison are doing fine, thank you very much.

For better or worse, MI needs Detroit to bring it into the 21st century and the only way to do it is to change perceptions among college-educated, young professionals. It's what's saving cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore and what saved Boston, Atlanta, etc. For those who say there is no hope, look at Philly and Baltimore in the 80s and early 90s - they were pretty much where Detroit is now. Something as innocuous as skating at Love Park, and other obscure things, started putting Philly back on the cultural map. Surely Detroit can do the same with it's music, art, history/architecture and general cultural scene. Someone has to step up and make Detroit a "hip" city to move to with real substance and a plan instead of fluffy rhetoric. The raw historic canvas is there, unlike newer cities like Phoenix. 2/3 of these young professionals move to a city before they have a job and without significant research - all based on word-of-mouth and current reputation. This is why you need to go out on a limb and "build it" before "they will come."

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Yep, there was an interview on WDET the other day that discussed where Detroit and MI are lagging behind. Basically, the places doing best are ones with at least 30-40% of the workforce having 4-year degrees, especially recent grads attracted from all over the country. These creative people are the ones driving their economies. Seattle has around 50% of their workforce like this, Detroit has 10%. Ann Arbor isn't doing very well when you count educated HOUSEHOLDS.

MI as a state was ranked in the upper teens at one point but it has slipped into the upper 20s (average) and will likely slide into the 30s (below average) before long. Where do you find these creative people? First, they are in CITIES, not counting the metro area, with populations over 500k - sorry Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Lansing. These smaller cities will not save MI. For everyone who wants to lop off Detroit and cast it off, MI will become Iowa at best if this happens. Notice I didn't say warm cities. The Twin cities and Madison are doing fine, thank you very much. For better or worse, MI needs Detroit to bring it into the 21st century and the only way to do it is to change perceptions among college-educated, young professionals. It's what's saving cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore and what saved Boston, Atlanta, etc. For those who say there is no hope, look at Philly and Baltimore in the 80s and early 90s - they were pretty much where Detroit is now. Something as innocuous as skating at Love Park, and other obscure things, started putting Philly back on the cultural map. Surely Detroit can do the same with it's music, art, history/architecture and general cultural scene. Someone has to step up and make Detroit a "hip" city to move to with real substance and a plan instead of fluffy rhetoric. The raw historic canvas is there, unlike newer cities like Phoenix. 2/3 of these young professionals move to a city before they have a job and without significant research - all based on word-of-mouth and current reputation. This is why you need to go out on a limb and "build it" before "they will come."

There are a couple of exceptions to this. One is Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, Arkansas metro area. No real "city" to speak of, no hipness, 20% of the population with college degrees, and a 3.5 - 5.0% population growth rate and 2% annual employment growth rate since 2000

Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR-MO Metropolitan Statistical Area (CBSA) Population and Components of Change
Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

Not saying that having a non college-educated population is the key to success, at all. Just saying that it's not valid across the board. Cities like Boston and Providence, which are highly educated, are losing thousands of people every year. But is population loss OK if incomes and employment rates stay high?

[Cato the Elder]

There are extenuating circumstances, but one key to look at is the demographics of population loss. Retiring boomers or aspiring 20-somethings might leave places like Boston, but it's educated, professional population has been increasing since the 80s. So yes, it wouldn't necessarily matter if metro Detroit lost population, depending on what type of people it was losing. On the flipside, places like Tucson are growing, but how's the economy there? Terrible, along with their public schools, b/c retired empty-nesters cannot drive an economy nor do they want to fund schools.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

There are extenuating circumstances, but one key to look at is the demographics of population loss. Retiring boomers or aspiring 20-somethings might leave places like Boston, but it's educated, professional population has been increasing since the 80s. So yes, it wouldn't necessarily matter if metro Detroit lost population, depending on what type of people it was losing. On the flipside, places like Tucson are growing, but how's the economy there? Terrible, along with their public schools, b/c retired empty-nesters cannot drive an economy nor do they want to fund schools.

True, and I don't know what the demographics are of the people who are moving to places like Fayatteville-Springdale-Rogers.

[Cato the Elder]

Overall, I think cost-of-living is as a vital component of quality of life. Boston, NY, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, etc. are at a point where the high cost-of-living starts to erode the quality of life. Detroit has to become an alternative for these people just as the Twin Cities are right now. All things equal, I think people would rather live in a larger, historical city like Detroit than Madison. Yet Madison has less "upside" but is demolishing Detroit b/c of the horrendous state of affairs here and the efficient state of affairs there. Heck, people are moving to "lofts" in Royal Oak and Birmingham over the real deal in Detroit, which shows you how poorly Detroit is utilizing its potential.

[MittenDweller82]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Yep, there was an interview on WDET the other day that discussed where Detroit and MI are lagging behind. Basically, the places doing best are ones with at least 30-40% of the workforce having 4-year degrees, especially recent grads attracted from all over the country. These creative people are the ones driving their economies. Seattle has around 50% of their workforce like this, Detroit has 10%. Ann Arbor isn't doing very well when you count educated HOUSEHOLDS.

MI as a state was ranked in the upper teens at one point but it has slipped into the upper 20s (average) and will likely slide into the 30s (below average) before long. Where do you find these creative people? First, they are in areas with populations over 500k living in dense urban areas - sorry Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Lansing. These smaller cities will not save MI. For everyone who wants to lop off Detroit and cast it off, MI will become Iowa at best if this happens. Notice I didn't say warm cities. The Twin cities and Madison are doing fine, thank you very much.

For better or worse, MI needs Detroit to bring it into the 21st century and the only way to do it is to change perceptions among college-educated, young professionals. It's what's saving cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore and what saved Boston, Atlanta, etc. For those who say there is no hope, look at Philly and Baltimore in the 80s and early 90s - they were pretty much where Detroit is now. Something as innocuous as skating at Love Park, and other obscure things, started putting Philly back on the cultural map. Surely Detroit can do the same with it's music, art, history/architecture and general cultural scene. Someone has to step up and make Detroit a "hip" city to move to with real substance and a plan instead of fluffy rhetoric. The raw historic canvas is there, unlike newer cities like Phoenix. 2/3 of these young professionals move to a city before they have a job and without significant research - all based on word-of-mouth and current reputation. This is why you need to go out on a limb and "build it" before "they will come."

I cant agree with you more in the respect that the goverments ploy to attract students to our state falls short of their true intentions when most incentives are gong towards re-educating manufacturing displacements, and bringing in manufacturing positions that are void of education requirements. National marketing firms cringe when statistical data shows that we have the highest percentage of people ages 20-29 leaving (Census.gov/quickfacts). The perception of this state is negative in all lights(in the Media's eyes), and in a brain washed nation that relys on media to learn "facts" Michigan will always=Detriot and its struggles. If you want a challage, find a city in Michigan who has had a + in percantage of population growth (not due to city to city migration) but due to economic expansion (migration to michignan). The reqputation of our public universities is being squashed by the shadow of the economy. U of M and Michigan State are the only 2 schools that bring in students from other regions of the country and the vast majority leave upon graduation. Housing some of the best educational opportunities in the country is a fantastic thing for other states who recieve our new grads. Negative news is horrible to continuously regergitate but sadly the ones who will pay for it will be the children of today.