Survey about relocation to Ann Arbor (Detroit, Pontiac: homes, neighborhoods, tenants)

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by brodie734

Saying EL is better at basically anything than A2 is like saying Chili's is better than a Michelin starred restaurant. You might legitimately think that but almost nobody else does and that opinion says more about you than anything.

True, but Ann Arbor is not particularly impressive on a national level, only in comparison to other places in Michigan or the Rust Belt. Michigan is not known for successful urban places. It's kind of like arguing that Minnie Mouse is a better singer than Betty Boop.

I'm a Michigan expat and I would say that one could argue the merits on East Lansing v Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is good (as Michigan goes) for upscale cultural activities but frankly Ann Arbor has 1/4 of the amenities of a real city for about 3/4 of the price. If you are stuck in Michigan and want to live somewhere liberal with a few non-chain places, it's probably your best bet. The big advantages to Michigan are cost and nature, if you are looking for cities it is not a good deal.

[BigLake]

Originally Posted by jakebarnes

True, but Ann Arbor is not particularly impressive on a national level, only in comparison to other places in Michigan or the Rust Belt. Michigan is not known for successful urban places. It's kind of like arguing that Minnie Mouse is a better singer than Betty Boop.

I'm a Michigan expat and I would say that one could argue the merits on East Lansing v Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is good (as Michigan goes) for upscale cultural activities but frankly Ann Arbor has 1/4 of the amenities of a real city for about 3/4 of the price. If you are stuck in Michigan and want to live somewhere liberal with a few non-chain places, it's probably your best bet. The big advantages to Michigan are cost and nature, if you are looking for cities it is not a good deal.

Hard to believe you are from Michigan, or you perhaps just don't like Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is *routinely* (to the point of being surprised when it's not top 10) on the top of various national city lists, i.e., most livable, best retirement, best mid-sized, best education, etc. You can quite easily and favorably to compare AA to any city of its size in the nation, and in many cases, compare it favorably to cities which are much larger. Perhaps you don't like UofM but your slight here is misplaced.

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by BigLake

Hard to believe you are from Michigan, or you perhaps just don't like Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is *routinely* (to the point of being surprised when it's not top 10) on the top of various national city lists, i.e., most livable, best retirement, best mid-sized, best education, etc. You can quite easily and favorably to compare AA to any city of its size in the nation, and in many cases, compare it favorably to cities which are much larger. Perhaps you don't like UofM but your slight here is misplaced.

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle feathers! I'm glad that the city has its boosters-- Michigan needs people who want to live in cities. I also should have been more complimentary, since Ann Arbor is a nice town.

I have no particular knock on Ann Arbor. It is definitely the nicest urbanized area in Michigan, no doubt. What I am saying is that Michigan doesn't do cities. It does seem to be changing a tiny bit, at a glacial pace. Ann Arbor is the closest thing to an urban, cosmopolitan area. But if a person is looking for a city-type atmosphere (able to live day to day without driving, dense housing) for the same price you can live in places that are a lot more urban. My personal opinion is that Michigan has two huge advantages-- beautiful lakes and nature, and a good COL for the price. For me, I feel like I wouldn't advise someone who wanted city life to pick anywhere in Michigan because there really are no big cities of note.

I get the sense you feel slighted because I made an equal comparison to East Lansing! It's all a personal taste thing, everybody should live where they like (if they can afford it-- which that's a whole other topic). If Ann Arbor's your thing, great. The OP was asking about Ann Arbor for relocation, this was my opinion.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by jakebarnes

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle feathers! I'm glad that the city has its boosters-- Michigan needs people who want to live in cities. I also should have been more complimentary, since Ann Arbor is a nice town.

I have no particular knock on Ann Arbor. It is definitely the nicest urbanized area in Michigan, no doubt. What I am saying is that Michigan doesn't do cities. It does seem to be changing a tiny bit, at a glacial pace. Ann Arbor is the closest thing to an urban, cosmopolitan area. But if a person is looking for a city-type atmosphere (able to live day to day without driving, dense housing) for the same price you can live in places that are a lot more urban. My personal opinion is that Michigan has two huge advantages-- beautiful lakes and nature, and a good COL for the price. For me, I feel like I wouldn't advise someone who wanted city life to pick anywhere in Michigan because there really are no big cities of note.

I get the sense you feel slighted because I made an equal comparison to East Lansing! It's all a personal taste thing, everybody should live where they like (if they can afford it-- which that's a whole other topic). If Ann Arbor's your thing, great. The OP was asking about Ann Arbor for relocation, this was my opinion.

Have you ever heard of Detroit and Grand Rapids?

The turnaround of the core of Detroit in the last 10 years or so has been remarkable, and Grand Rapids, which never declined to the extent of Detroit, is booming at an even greater rate! Your notions are dated.

[brodie734]

Originally Posted by jakebarnes

True, but Ann Arbor is not particularly impressive on a national level, only in comparison to other places in Michigan or the Rust Belt. Michigan is not known for successful urban places. It's kind of like arguing that Minnie Mouse is a better singer than Betty Boop.

I'm a Michigan expat and I would say that one could argue the merits on East Lansing v Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is good (as Michigan goes) for upscale cultural activities but frankly Ann Arbor has 1/4 of the amenities of a real city for about 3/4 of the price. If you are stuck in Michigan and want to live somewhere liberal with a few non-chain places, it's probably your best bet. The big advantages to Michigan are cost and nature, if you are looking for cities it is not a good deal.

Ann Arbor is routinely ranked as one of the best cities to live in nationally. I am frankly not sure that there actually are other cities of 120k people which offer anything approaching the same amenities as Ann Arbor anywhere in the country. There's a reason that the cities Ann Arbor is most frequently compared to are magnitudes larger than it (Madison, Austin).

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by usroute10

Have you ever heard of Detroit and Grand Rapids?

The turnaround of the core of Detroit in the last 10 years or so has been remarkable, and Grand Rapids, which never declined to the extent of Detroit, is booming at an even greater rate! Your notions are dated.

Yes, I've heard of Detroit. Everyone has. It is world famous as a failed city. I agree it has been a remarkable turnaround in Detroit, though there's a long way to go. This has been documented fairly well in the media. I don't think I'm some weird troll for saying that Detroit isn't a shining light of urbanity. Do you want to live there (in the city, not Troy or Sterling Heights)? Visit Boston or Salt Lake City or Denver and tell me that Detroit is just another thriving city.

Detropia | Reinventing Detroit | Independent Lens | PBS

I was in both GR and DTW last year. I grew up in Michigan and visit every year for pleasure and work. I am also a person who enjoys cities and urban spaces. I think it is fair to say that Michigan has a generally suburban layout. Usually necessary to have a car to get everywhere, large stores with big parking lots, minimal public transit. Not a criticism just a fact.

I have to say I was more impressed with Grand Rapids last time I visited. There are definitely good things happening there.

Are my notions dated? Maybe they are. I don't live in Michigan anymore. I'm just comparing it to other cities I visit around the US for work. As far as Ann Arbor - yes it is a good college town that is more cosmopolitan than the average college town since there are a lot of east coast and international students, and has the advantage of farming out its low income area to another city (Ypsilanti). Zingerman's is great, it's progressive and it's nice. And yes it compares favorably in all the "Best of Small Cities" list, which is obviously a point of pride.

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by usroute10

Have you ever heard of Detroit and Grand Rapids?

The turnaround of the core of Detroit in the last 10 years or so has been remarkable, and Grand Rapids, which never declined to the extent of Detroit, is booming at an even greater rate! Your notions are dated.

You might also want to look at the population as reported by Detroit's own newspaper.

Detroit population rank is lowest since 1850

It's so thriving that it's losing population, still. Before you call my notions dated, you might want to look at some facts.

I can understand the desire to defend Michigan - I do so frequently by people on the west coast who call it "flyover country". But let's not fool ourselves into thinking Detroit has bounced back. That's coming but it's a ways off.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by jakebarnes

You might also want to look at the population as reported by Detroit's own newspaper.

Detroit population rank is lowest since 1850

It's so thriving that it's losing population, still. Before you call my notions dated, you might want to look at some facts.

I can understand the desire to defend Michigan - I do so frequently by people on the west coast who call it "flyover country". But let's not fool ourselves into thinking Detroit has bounced back. That's coming but it's a ways off.

Notice in my comments, I said the CORE of Detroit has made a remarkable comeback. In the outer neighborhoods where I live (not in the suburbs), we are still struggling with declining population, blight, and crime. I never said the city of Detroit had reversed its population decline or that it was a thriving city.

You said there were no cities of note of Michigan. The rise of Detroit to a city of almost 2 million people, and the fall of Detroit culminating in bankruptcy, is exceptionally noteworthy.

Just because you flew into DTW doesn’t mean you know what is going on in the heart of the city. There are 10 neighborhoods in the greater downtown area that are seeing increased development, residents, and amenities. A 3.3-mile long streetcar connecting 3 urban districts is set to open tomorrow. The nearly-completed Little Caesars Arena, the new home of the Red Wings and the Pistons, will anchor a 50-block swath of Midtown and Downtown Detroit, called District Detroit. Development in the District, either planned or underway, include a taproom for the popular Grand Rapids brewery Founders, a new hostel, a $20 million residential/retail project, a new Wayne State University Business School, and a new 9-story Little Caesar’s Pizza HQ


Concerning parking lots, Michigan has no more parking lots than any state other than New York. In addition to the urban renaissance in the city’s center, there are 10 or so older suburbs that have thriving downtowns, a few of which are below:

Ferndale
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4605...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Birmingham
https://www.google.com/maps/place/N+...142809!6m1!1e1

Plymouth
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3697...8i6656!6m1!1e1

Threadjack over

[Indentured Servant]

I would agree that Michigan turned sharply suburban starting in the 60's. People wanted nothing to do with cities, which were left to minorities and the poor. Also, that polarization kept public transit anemic. Consequently, what you will find is that Michigan has some of the best suburbs in the nation at the expense of creating some of the worst cities in the nation. If Michigan had been less "flee to the suburbs" minded, then cities like Detroit, Flint, Lansing....and even Grand Rapids, would be more "urban" today.

Right now Michigan businesses are finding it hard to attract young talented tech like workers.....because they want a dense, vibrant urban environment with mass transportation, walk able neighborhoods and more. Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor are close to having that.....but are kind of small compared to other cities that are attracting this young talent.

All that being said, everyone has different taste. I like Detroit and would be living there now if the economy had not tanked. Places like Seattle, Denver, Boston are nice places to visit.......but as the old saying goes...."I would not want to live there".

Michigan and its cities are like an undervalued stock. Not everyone has the ability to recognize undervalued stock and hence are behind the curve. With future fresh water issues, climate change and the already existing beauty and coastline of the state.....the state is woefully undervalued. Also, there are a lot of people with pioneering spirits who want to move to a place to help "make things happen". A lot of other cities you move to to "watch what happened"

[highlanderfil]

We're in the process of closing on a home in A2. I'll be sure to come back here in a few months to fill this out, but I can already easily identify the two things I don't like about it - traffic on Washtenaw and Ann Arbor property taxes. But there are plenty of redeeming qualities, as well.