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All houses evolve and some people call re-muddling simply a part of the evolution of the house. However there is a difference between adding some modern necessity and ripping out historic and perfectly serviceable components just to modernize them. Further, when replacements are necessary, it can be done with period materials and reproductions that maintain the historic charm of the house. What the OP is asking, is why someone woudl buy a charming historic house, rip out all of the historic charm and try to make it match the thousands of nearly identical mass produced modern homes in the area? If you want a mass production look, why not go buy a mass production house to begin with? At least that is what I think they are asking.
The OP did not ask whether it is right or wrong to do this, but why do people do it? The are not saying they want to impose their will on people who do this, but that they do not understand why people do that. For any old house fan, it is a shame or even a horror to see a beautiful old house gutted and "modernized" (temporarily until the next trendy fad takes hold).
Sometimes things must be modified or added, but they can be done tastefully and without destroying historic charm.
Although our house did not originally have electricity, it makes sense to use fixtures from when electricity was added to the house. Had we stuck home depot ceiling boobs or some shiney chrome thing on the ceiling, it would have looked awful and taken away the charm. We were able to find light fixtures from the 1900s - 1920s which is the period when the house would have first gotten electricity. Thus, they look appropriate. Where we had to use modern fixtures, we found nice reproductions. They are not that hard to find, but you are not going to find them at Home Depot or Lowes.
There are some practicalities that must be considered. We had to build a new kitchen. Our house was built in 1830, 1850 and 1868. It did not have an attached kitchen until 1868. The kitchen it did have was impractical to move when we moved the house (it was an old milking barn that had been shoved up against the side of the house. Even with that, we were not able to try to replicate an 1868 kitchen (wood or coal cooking? Haul water into the house with a bucket?)
We had no real choice but to pick a time period that would otherwise fit in decently with the decor of the rest of the house. We chose 1927 because "stuff" was more readily available and there is not much difference functionally. Also that was the era of the existing kitchen that we could not move. It was added in 1868, but remodeled in the later 1920s.
We built the new kitchen almost entirely out of salvaged materials from period homes. Appliances are mostly from 1927 the sink is a little bit newer (1930). Still it fits in well. We could have put in granite and stainless, but I would not have bothered with salvaged materials in that case and I would prefer to disconnect such a modern kitchen from the rest of the house. It simply woudl not fit the house.
Some parts of the house were the victim of prior re-muddling modernizations. The dining room (1868) had been "Home Depoed" Moldings, doors and door and window casings were wood, but modern. It looked out of place and not charming at all. We found a house built in 1868 that was being torn down. We were able to take the doors, casings and moldings and re-do the dining room in at least close to what it was.
One fireplace had big ugly chunks of marble glued to the front of it. It looked horrible (probably a 1970s "modernization"). The brick underneath was too chewed up to just leave exposed, plus we could not get all of the glue from the marble off. We found some hand made tiles that were copied form some early 1800s tile and used that. The tile was not expensive because it was rejected by the person it was made for and then the company sold it on E-bay (about $300 for the whole fireplace). It looks marvelous and few people can tell it is not original. Contractors had suggested simply concreting over the brick and filling in part of the fireplace to make it look modern (smaller).
We had to make similar decisions with bathrooms. One was added in the 1930s and had not been changed we left it alone. One was from the 1970s and horridly ugly and impractical. Another had rotted out the floor completely and had to be removed. This one was apparently added in 1946, but it had a sink that was much much older. In 1836, 1850 and 1868 the bathroom was outside. We were not going to do that. Besides we do not know the original floor plan.
So in the 1970s bathroom we used wood wainscoting and subway tile. We moved the old sink from the downstairs bathroom. We had to buy a modern toilet because we needed a corner toiled for space reasons. However a nice reproduction type classic looking toilet was available. The rotted out bathroom was simply removed and the room it was built in returned to its pre 1946 configuration. We did not know what the room was used for, so we turned it into a library. IN 1836 the room was probably a bedroom, or just a storage room, but when more bedrooms were added upstairs in 1850 and 1868, it was probably no longer needed or used for that purpose.
All houses evolve and some people call re-muddling simply a part of the evolution of the house.However there is a difference between adding some modern necessity and ripping out historic and perfectly serviceable components just to modernize them. Further, when replacements are necessary, it can be done with period materials and reproductions that maintain the historic charm of the house. What the OP is asking, is why someone woudl buy a charming historic house, rip out all of the historic charm and try to make it match the thousands of nearly identical mass produced modern homes in the area? If you want a mass production look, why not go buy a mass production house to begin with? At least that is what I think they are asking.
The OP did not ask whether it is right or wrong to do this, but why do people do it? The are not saying they want to impose their will on people who do this, but that they do not understand why people do that. For any old house fan, it is a shame or even a horror to see a beautiful old house gutted and "modernized" (temporarily until the next trendy fad takes hold).
Sometimes things must be modified or added, but they can be done tastefully and without destroying historic charm.
Although our house did not originally have electricity, it makes sense to use fixtures from when electricity was added to the house. Had we stuck home depot ceiling boobs or some shiney chrome thing on the ceiling, it would have looked awful and taken away the charm. We were able to find light fixtures from the 1900s - 1920s which is the period when the house would have first gotten electricity. Thus, they look appropriate. Where we had to use modern fixtures, we found nice reproductions. They are not that hard to find, but you are not going to find them at Home Depot or Lowes.
There are some practicalities that must be considered. We had to build a new kitchen. Our house was built in 1830, 1850 and 1868. It did not have an attached kitchen until 1868. The kitchen it did have was impractical to move when we moved the house (it was an old milking barn that had been shoved up against the side of the house. Even with that, we were not able to try to replicate an 1868 kitchen (wood or coal cooking? Haul water into the house with a bucket?)
We had no real choice but to pick a time period that would otherwise fit in decently with the decor of the rest of the house. We chose 1927 because "stuff" was more readily available and there is not much difference functionally. Also that was the era of the existing kitchen that we could not move. It was added in 1868, but remodeled in the later 1920s.
We built the new kitchen almost entirely out of salvaged materials from period homes. Appliances are mostly from 1927 the sink is a little bit newer (1930). Still it fits in well. We could have put in granite and stainless, but I would not have bothered with salvaged materials in that case and I would prefer to disconnect such a modern kitchen from the rest of the house. It simply woudl not fit the house.
Some parts of the house were the victim of prior re-muddling modernizations. The dining room (1868) had been "Home Depoed" Moldings, doors and door and window casings were wood, but modern. It looked out of place and not charming at all. We found a house built in 1868 that was being torn down. We were able to take the doors, casings and moldings and re-do the dining room in at least close to what it was.
One fireplace had big ugly chunks of marble glued to the front of it. It looked horrible (probably a 1970s "modernization"). The brick underneath was too chewed up to just leave exposed, plus we could not get all of the glue from the marble off. We found some hand made tiles that were copied form some early 1800s tile and used that. The tile was not expensive because it was rejected by the person it was made for and then the company sold it on E-bay (about $300 for the whole fireplace). It looks marvelous and few people can tell it is not original. Contractors had suggested simply concreting over the brick and filling in part of the fireplace to make it look modern (smaller).
We had to make similar decisions with bathrooms. One was added in the 1930s and had not been changed we left it alone. One was from the 1970s and horridly ugly and impractical. Another had rotted out the floor completely and had to be removed. This one was apparently added in 1946, but it had a sink that was much much older. In 1836, 1850 and 1868 the bathroom was outside. We were not going to do that. Besides we do not know the original floor plan.
So in the 1970s bathroom we used wood wainscoting and subway tile. We moved the old sink from the downstairs bathroom. We had to buy a modern toilet because we needed a corner toiled for space reasons. However a nice reproduction type classic looking toilet was available. The rotted out bathroom was simply removed and the room it was built in returned to its pre 1946 configuration. We did not know what the room was used for, so we turned it into a library. IN 1836 the room was probably a bedroom, or just a storage room, but when more bedrooms were added upstairs in 1850 and 1868, it was probably no longer needed or used for that purpose.
Well said, and that's my understanding of the original post as well.
I apologize if I was too grumpy in my previous post.
New window salesmen don't WANT people to know how relatively easy and inexpensive rebuilding the original windows are. Old windows were engineered to be maintained indefinitely. New windows will wear out and need replaced eventually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
People are led to believe by clever window salesmen that ugly vinyl windows are better and more efficient than historic wood windows. They aren't. Those wood windows can be repaired and if in good condition, do not leak one whit. With storm windows they are every bit as efficient as modern double paned windows and much nicer looking in most cases. Last longer too. However few people know this and window salesmen work very hard to make sure it remains that way.
Agree, agree, agree.
We own a 1930 Arts & Crafts with the original wood windows (yes, the kind with metal pulleys inside). When we first moved in, I wondered about replacing them. However, after researching windows, we have decided to keep them and just get storm windows (although the previous owner already installed some on the north side of the house). They are in fantastic condition and as mentioned by JRC, they are designed to be repaired.
The key factor with older windows is how well they have been maintained. I read somewhere that if properly maintained, wood windows can last 80-100 years.
In 2012, the FTC argued against deceptive claims of energy efficiency by several major window manufacturers:
Below are a couple pics of a vintage kitchen I found, while looking at houses for sale online several years ago. It seems to me that a few of us would keep this great kitchen. The OP seems to be asking why many people would feel compelled to tear it out.
For what it's worth, this was just a middle-of-the-road, 3BR, 1000SF+/-, 1920's home.
Funny. Aren't people paying lots of money for new "farmhouse sinks" and isn't that a real one?
Porcelain sinks stain badly when blueberries or other dyes are put into them. You can clean them of course with harsh chemicals, but getting dirty is kind of what a sink does, but even then it shouldn't look dirty all the time. People who pull out a porcelain sink probably are tired of dealing with staining, and people putting one in are upgrading and probably aren't aware that they do stain. Different strokes for different folks in my opinion.
Funny. Aren't people paying lots of money for new "farmhouse sinks" and isn't that a real one?
We had one in our prior house. We knew the buyer planned to re-do the kitchen so we told him we wanted to take it with us. He said no way. he wanted it. No deal unless we left the sink. So we sold hhim the house with the sink. HE promptly tore out the sink and deposited it in the back yard. Eventually he gave it to one of our former neighbors for their laundry room. They offered to give it to us, but we had already found another one and put it in our "new" kitchen. Plus it was too expensive to ship it once the moving truck left.
We paid about $150 for it best i can remember. Another 100 to ship it from Pennsylvania.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 03-25-2013 at 11:46 AM..
Porcelain sinks stain badly when blueberries or other dyes are put into them. You can clean them of course with harsh chemicals, but getting dirty is kind of what a sink does, but even then it shouldn't look dirty all the time. People who pull out a porcelain sink probably are tired of dealing with staining, and people putting one in are upgrading and probably aren't aware that they do stain. Different strokes for different folks in my opinion.
The sink came with the house so it's 80+ years old.
Not a single blueberry stain or dye in there.
Yes, it gets dirty on a daily basis, just as all sinks do. So it needs to be cleaned on a daily basis.
Comet or Ajax and those dark green scouring pads do wonders.
Maybe porcelain of today is lower-grade than the old stuff????
The sink came with the house so it's 80+ years old.
Not a single blueberry stain or dye in there.
Yes, it gets dirty on a daily basis, just as all sinks do. So it needs to be cleaned on a daily basis.
Comet or Ajax and those dark green scouring pads do wonders.
Maybe porcelain of today is lower-grade than the old stuff????
We wash blueberries in that sink regularly. Never had a stain. IN fact it has no stains. It also has no rust. I really do not like the semi-modern metal (stainless) sinks, they get rust after a while. The biggest problem we have with out sink and the one we had before is it is very shallow. If you turn the water on full blast it splashes out all over the kitchen. - so don't turn the water on full blast. We have a big commercial dish sink in the scullery for washing pots and things, no reason to turn the kitchen sink on full blast anyway. You also cannot put a garbage disposal in the old farmhouse sink, but that would deprive the chickens of the favorite meal of the day (plate scrapings).
The sink came with the house so it's 80+ years old.
Not a single blueberry stain or dye in there.
Yes, it gets dirty on a daily basis, just as all sinks do. So it needs to be cleaned on a daily basis.
Comet or Ajax and those dark green scouring pads do wonders.
Maybe porcelain of today is lower-grade than the old stuff????
Good answer. Amazing how grandma was able to keep her old sink so
clean.
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