Will Gov. Ducey send AZ National Guard to the Border?

[grmi66]

As a first generation American I'm all for legal immigration. Glad my grandparents made the move and took my parents with them. But they waited 5 years to do it legally. Talk to most people on the right side of the spectrum and I would guess they have about the same viewpoint. Immigration is what makes America great, but do it legally and wait your turn.

[leavingIL]

Originally Posted by grmi66

As a first generation American I'm all for legal immigration. Glad my grandparents made the move and took my parents with them. But they waited 5 years to do it legally. Talk to most people on the right side of the spectrum and I would guess they have about the same viewpoint. Immigration is what makes America great, but do it legally and wait your turn.

This was literally never the policy until the progressives got a hold of immigration law in the 20's and 30's. Then... suddenly, it became harder than just being able to read.

The periods of highest and most open immigration in this country's history have been those of the highest prosperity.

[leavingIL]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Wow, you're going off in lots of directions here.

I mainly responded on the Libertarian end of things because of your comment "It's funny how people who hate big government give exceptions to things like having troops occupy a portion of domestic land. " I just offered the fact that one can be of a small gov frame of mind(ie Libertarian) and still think the gov be useful at doing a few things like protect/enforce its border and send support to the border to enforce it.

And the fact that we have laws in this country and one of those laws is it's not legal for one to cross over into the US from anywhere. I think it begins and ends there. You and/or I may not agree with the law but it's still on the books and should be enforced. Or taken off the books.

Given I side with Libertarians on the vast majority of things, I agree with your views on ending handouts of all sorts.

As for the url you sent on Texas/illegal kids crossing over, I'd love for that law to be overturned that the article discusses. But the other side that isn't mentioned in the article is there are a bunch of adults who cross over illegally. They can be processed/sent back home rather quickly and that alone I think would be worth stacking up more enforcement on the AZ border. It's also the right thing to do for people who take the time and effort and play by the rules and enter this country legally. I don't think it's much to give these people the respect they deserve and not give them the "sucker" label for playing by the rules/the law while others can waltz over illegally and expect to be acknowledged when they broke the law.

ahaha... It may seem like a lot of directions, but it's all linked together. The problem with the current paradigm in the modern popular perception is that if there's a problem, created by government or not, then government must solve it. That's a terrifying prospect when one considers that MOST of the most pressing issues in our country can be attributed directly to the government.

Conservatives and small government people are not immune to this. There seems to be a disconnect in their minds between big government and "securing the border," even though not only are they one in the same, but militarizing an entire region of this country is perhaps a quicker descent into centralized fascism than even Obama himself would get away with. Many of the people who call for this kind of action have allowed either a.) a fundamental misunderstanding of economics or b.) an incurable xenophobia to compromise their principles.

I am of the opinion that, IF there is a proper role for government, it is preserving people's rights -as defined by a Lockean theory of negative rights as the founders enumerated- by protecting them and their property from aggression, be it state-sponsored (invasion) or private (criminal). Immigrants, by simply crossing the border, do not commit aggression against any person or property. Once here, though, if one of them commits violence or a crime, then government resources should be dedicated to achieving justice for the victim.

The other thing that blows me away is how conservatives don't see border control as a socialist planning scheme. A central board of government bureaucrats decides how many immigrants can come to this country, from what other countries, what jobs they may work, how old or young they must be, how much money they must have, what skills they should bring, how long they can stay, whether or not they can bring their families, etc. etc. How much more socialist and centralized can government action actually be? That is THE DEFINITION of socialism.

I oppose big government in all forms. The welfare state, the military industrial complex, the enormous, burdensome regulatory bodies, legally protected unions, the idea of a corporation as a legally protected business entity, the "intelligence" gathering agencies, the militarization of law enforcement, border controls, and anything else you can name. Somehow, none of these things have been crucial for the survival of humanity for thousands and thousands of years. Now, in the 21st century, American citizens have come to view all of them as the cornerstones to our survival. I don't get it.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by leavingIL

This was literally never the policy until the progressives got a hold of immigration law in the 20's and 30's. Then... suddenly, it became harder than just being able to read.

The periods of highest and most open immigration in this country's history have been those of the highest prosperity.

Regardless.....it's the law now. And as long as it's the law, it should be enforced.

[chaparrito]

And deprive his business [associates] of their cheap labor source? Are you kidding?

[leavingIL]

Originally Posted by chaparrito

And deprive his business [associates] of their cheap labor source? Are you kidding?

If there are people willing to work those jobs for less, then that just means that YOUR standard of living is being lowered by the prohibition of a cheaper workforce. The less it costs to produce something, the less it costs YOU, the more disposable income you have, the higher your standard of living goes.

And this is not an argument against immigrants. It's an argument against people. If there was a 10 million person cohort of naturalized American citizens willing to do the same job for the same pay as immigrants, would you demand their deportation too?

[Salpointe59]

I think so, but it will be a symbolic gesture.