Arizona is one of the top 5 states liberals are moving to (Phoenix: lawyers, living)

[autism360]

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

I've pointed this out before:

Over 30% of California voters are Republicans. Those "fleeing" are not very likely to be progressive Democrats who, believe me, have everything their way in the Golden State.

Anyone who assumes Californian = liberal isn't thinking this through.

The sentiments of this California expatriate are shared by many:

Reason Foundation - Why I Am Leaving California

The article link you shared really seems to sum things up quite accurately

So simply put, California: I just can't take it anymore. All the taxing, spending and regulating hasn't led to a better quality of life. Maybe someday the state will once again value freedom and the entrepreneurial spirit. I hope so. But in the meantime, my family and I, like so many other successful Californians, are outta here. - See more at: http://reason.org/news/show/why-i-am....aWu1FDyd.dpuf

[boulevardofdef]

Originally Posted by GeneR

"Plainly clear...there was no weapons of mass destruction...."? You should have shared this knowledge with other liberals such as John Kerry, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton. They could have perhaps used your expertise.

I tried at the time, but I'm just some guy that nobody listens to. I don't really think that Kerry, Biden and Clinton believed it -- it was just too obvious, though I of course can't prove it one way or another. It seems more likely to me that they accurately believed it was political poison to oppose the invasion, which was broadly popular. Politicians support and vote for lots of stuff they don't really believe for that reason. You hate Obama, right? Well, compare his public opposition to same-sex marriage when the majority of the American public also opposed it -- despite multiple personal accounts from colleagues and acquaintances who say he really supported it -- vs. his "evolution" on the issue when the tide of public support turned.

This willingness to sacrifice convictions for political expediency is why I vehemently opposed Kerry during the Democratic nomination process in 2004 -- that and I correctly believed that someone so personally unlikable could never become president -- and very tepidly supported him during the general election as the lesser of two evils. It's also a big part of why I opposed Clinton in 2008 -- plus, like Kerry, the likability issue -- and supported the anti-invasion Obama, though to be fair, the stakes were much lower for Obama in 2003 and one wonders if he would have voted for the invasion had he been a U.S. senator at the time.

By now, enough time has passed that I've forgiven the whole trio for it. Politics are politics.

Originally Posted by GeneR

I think it is a mischaracterization to classify incomplete or mistaken intelligence information as a "lie" (it is, however, great political rhetoric).

When prominent, powerful people say, in essence, "I think it's a good idea to lie to the public about WMDs in Iraq" and "we're working on concocting a story about WMDs in Iraq," and then a year later the people they advise come out and say there are WMDs in Iraq, I think it's fair to assume the claim is a lie. Far from being "great political rhetoric" to call it a lie, in fact the word "lie" was highly taboo during that time, with serious negative consequences for the few who dared to use it. The mainstream media never did; that's what I'm talking about when I say they work overtime to overcome their bias, and often overcompensate. Politicians didn't dare to use it either. It was only later that all the "When Clinton lied, nobody died" rhetoric started.

Originally Posted by GeneR

Reference to "things turning sour....", Iraq was seen as a somewhat stable situation (as Joe Biden bragged) at the end of the very successful troop surge in 2008, that is, until the precipitous withdrawal of U.S. forces with the lack of a status of forces agreement. The retreat ended in 2011....That's the year of "turning sour"!

That's revisionist history. In 2008 everybody except the people initially responsible for it, and I suppose in this context you can include Biden, knew the war was a huge disaster. Remember, that was the year Obama got elected largely on his opposition to it while McCain campaigned on the success of the surge. Did things get worse after 2011? Sure they did, and I genuinely feel terrible for the people of the region, but we set that course of events in motion in 2003. Maybe we could have held off ISIS if we stayed forever, but there are few people who really want an endless war.

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

But I just love seeing right wing transplants complaining that left wing transplants are ruining 'their' state. Pot, meet kettle.

Really, that is what you take from this conversation? Right wing transplants are running from states that have been ruined by liberals. We're seeking out other conservative states because we like those states. We're not wanting to change them when we get here, we want them to remain the same and assimilate the values and culture of those states.

Liberals on the other hand are RUNNING FROM liberal states that they have ruined, towards more conservative states. When they get to those conservative states they then start trying to change it and make it more liberal like the mess they just left. They don't want to embrace the culture and values of the state, they want to change everything that drew them to it in the first place.

It is amazing how this is lost on those on the left. There are NO liberal states that are draws, people are running from the liberal states towards conservative states.

Now look at the list of previously conservative states that have been ruined by liberals, that list is long and growing.

[nicet4]

Originally Posted by autism360

Taxpayers Fleeing Democrat-Run States for Republican Ones

https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleein...epublican-ones

We can expect a lot of growth over the next 10 years

Along with lots of changes in policy and higher taxes!

Higher taxes is what California trash brings with them.

[Champ le monstre du lac]

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

You are greatly mistaken.

Conservatism is not a political party. It is a set of guiding beliefs. The late great William F. Buckley Jr. is considered the father of modern conservatism. Politically, he was not so much a Republican as a Libertarian. But even if all political parties vanished from the face of the earth, he still would have been a conservative..

Interesting historical take, however that doesn't negate how rigid many are on both the right and the left in towing the line without considering each others point of view. The media exploits the extremes of both sides, people buy into it and morph into being pitted against each other. It's hysteria. Political dialogue is rarely productive.

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

Don't start an argument about politics -- we're talking about Arizona in the Arizona forum.

The OP essentially baited a piece of political red meat in with this thread title.

Originally Posted by nicet4

Along with lots of changes in policy and higher taxes!

Higher taxes is what California trash brings with them.

Yeah, Cali trash. The predictable smack talk and scapegoating that comes with every political thread on C-D. Just riveting.

[Champ le monstre du lac]

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

I woke up this morning to an email from Zillow, gleefully informing me that the house I paid $480k for in 1995 is now worth some millions of dollars.

You might think I would be happy about that. You would be wrong.

For one thing, who will be able to buy my house at that price? The middle class is being systematically crushed under the weight of astronomical housing prices in the Bay Area. Can you blame them for wanting to move to Arizona or Nevada? If the jobs are there, they'll move.

Two of the people DH volunteers with at CalFire have moved to Washington. Others, Oregon. We spoke to a couple last year who were leaving California to move permanently to their family's lakeshore cabin in Wisconsin. Consider that for a moment: Leaving perfect weather to live in chilly Wisconsin.

It's all around us. Only those friends who have surviving elderly parents here don't plan to move. But they're not reticent about expressing their dissatisfaction. One gets the sense they might just follow us to Arizona eventually.

One of the long laundry list of things I like about Arizona is that newcomers are welcome -- or at least tolerated until they make it clear they brought the CA insanity with them. Arizonans aren't opposed to Mexicans -- they just want the illegal immigration to stop. And unlike my home state of Oregon, Arizona doesn't have a culture of xenophobia. Long ago Governor Tom McCall used to joke he was going to put up a sign at the state line: "Welcome to Oregon. Now go home."

I know what the state flag is supposed to symbolize -- incredible sunsets, copper mining, the Colorado River -- but to me it has always signaled wide-open opportunity to those who would avail themselves of it.

Now this is an objective post that I can agree with.

[LexusNexus]

Aging baby boomers, who are retiring, seek warmer climates, a slower pace, a lower COL, even at the risk of being around a bunch of yahoos.

[ji603]

Originally Posted by LexusNexus

Aging baby boomers, who are retiring, seek warmer climates, a slower pace, a lower COL, even at the risk of being around a bunch of yahoos.

Problem is, they vote. I'd rather they sleep in the bed their politics made, as the baby boomers did my kids no favors.

[Clark Park]

There was an article just yesterday in The Philadelphia Inquirer that census figures confirmed that the #1 destination of residents leaving New York City is ... Philadelphia! For years we had a joke that Philly was becoming the "6th Borough" of New York. In any case, Philly is even more staunchly Democratic than New York ... only 17% of registered voters in this town align with the GOP and we haven't had a Republican mayor for 60 years.

[Hschlick84]

Originally Posted by LBTRS

Really, that is what you take from this conversation? Right wing transplants are running from states that have been ruined by liberals. We're seeking out other conservative states because we like those states. We're not wanting to change them when we get here, we want them to remain the same and assimilate the values and culture of those states.

Liberals on the other hand are RUNNING FROM liberal states that they have ruined, towards more conservative states. When they get to those conservative states they then start trying to change it and make it more liberal like the mess they just left. They don't want to embrace the culture and values of the state, they want to change everything that drew them to it in the first place.

It is amazing how this is lost on those on the left. There are NO liberal states that are draws, people are running from the liberal states towards conservative states.

Now look at the list of previously conservative states that have been ruined by liberals, that list is long and growing.

Colorado comes to mind another reason to get out of that cesspool.