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I'm using the terms conservative and liberal loosely by their stereotypes. But states tend to be viewed by what happens in their cities even if it was only on city-level, and it can be good or bad, it depends.
Let me try to make an analogy here... It's like how people are quick to write a bad review of a restaurant online if they've had a bad experience, but a good experience they are less likely to write a review about. Usually if someone writes a good review of a restaurant it's because the restaurant usually did superb. And I check reviews of restaurants before I go. If the reviews are that negative with a lack of positive reviews to create balance, chances are I won't give the restaurant an opportunity. Because I perceive it to be bad based on what I've heard.
Similarly, Arizona has not been in the best lime light in recent years due to "conservative" political events like SB 1070 and Arpaio and the like... The media has done it's part on sharing this information on the national level. People with no in-depth knowledge of our state or experiences of Arizona will judge us based on what they've heard or read about. Chances are, if in someone's eyes these events are seen as truly very negative, they won't come here. That's where the political orientation/perception of the events come into play. And when it comes to the media, Arizona hasn't had a "superb" review in recent times that I can think of. Unless of course, an outsider sees these as positive and would be more likely to live here (as politics aren't the only variable in relocation). This would support more conservatives moving here rather than what the thread title is arguing for.
I don't claim full knowledge of this but last I recall Nevada hasn't had such large events happen in recent times. Thus in the eyes of the media--which is sadly the eyes of most Americans--Nevada would look less like a "conservative haven" than we do. Even if Las Vegas is more conservative in the quantitative data. Nevada doesn't have the media painting them vermillion.
I don't disagree with you at all, in fact I agree with your post, but I was arguing something else. Perception plays a big role in this. I'm an Arizonan, born and raised, I know Arizona can't be painted with a broad brush accurately. But outsiders do this, and they do it often. It's ignorant in my opinion to do so but people do it. If we are "one of the top five states liberals are moving to" we need to do good on reputation which I explained. And frankly I don't think we have been doing good here, which is why I'm disagreeing with the thread title.
States that are doing good on the perception factor... Well... Oregon is one. And it is California's neighbor...
If Arizona is truly attracting liberals in droves then it is NOT because of politics.
Good points. I think economics(affordability), jobs, quality of life, etc. rule in the end, not politics. Most people I know frankly don't care about politics though of course some are rabid about it and it seems to rule their lives. If everyone cared so much about politics, I wouldn't have met so many people from supposedly liberal areas of the country moving/living here and enjoying it. Perhaps those people would feel more comfortable in some of the more liberal cities in AZ if politics is such a huge part of their lives. Who knows. Some people seem to favor one lying side more than the other lying side. Go figure.
Certainly perception does play a big role in many people's lives, especially those that trust/believe the media without question. And it can be based on 1 or 2 stories and people extrapolate that across the board. I think such thinking is naive, the height of ignorance, but it is what it is....there are indeed lots of ignorant/gullible people out there that believe just about everything they read/here without experiencing something and learning the reality of it all themselves.
To illustrate this, this poll is a few years old but Phoenix actually rated very high in overall likability, just a few points down from the top ranking cities:
"The only other two major cities in the poll to have a net negative view are both in California: Los Angeles (33-40) and Oakland (21-39). However, California is home to the 11th most popular city, San Francisco (48-29)."
Big negative factor there in this poll for Los Angeles. Phoenix is way ahead in likability and trounces it in negativity. And San Francisco also has a much bigger negative factor compared to Phoenix and its "(49-18)" rating. Just a bit higher than San Francisco and much better in less negativity. A study like this tells me some major CA cities aren't doing a very good job on the perception factor.
Something else to highlight on the issue of AZ/likability. You mention SB1070. Laws like SB1070 actually had the majority of the country behind it at the time in this mainstream poll, with 52% saying it was "about right" and 11% saying it didn't go far enough:
That's a big likability factor nation wide for a piece of legislation.
Yet many tried hard to paint AZ as wrong/most disagree with such a thing. But reality says something else to some people. Gotta love the distortions that get played out for various agendas.
In the end, all states have their +/- . I have to disagree with you on states like CA and OR doing a good job in the perception. Besides the one poll I referenced above, one can fill a book on the not so nice factors that exists in those states that many people don't agree with that would put those states negative/laughably light by many. And the media is filled with such stories. And data backs it up.
I think we are pretty much on the same page in all of this. And so be it really in my view. Ignorant people will believe what they want to believe in the face of reality. And do we really want to convince such people to live in AZ in the first place? I know I wouldn't want such shallow thinking people to be my neighbor if I had a choice.
Good points. I think economics(affordability), jobs, quality of life, etc. rule in the end, not politics. Most people I know frankly don't care about politics though of course some are rabid about it and it seems to rule their lives. If everyone cared so much about politics, I wouldn't have met so many people from supposedly liberal areas of the country moving/living here and enjoying it. Perhaps those people would feel more comfortable in some of the more liberal cities in AZ if politics is such a huge part of their lives. Who knows. Some people seem to favor one lying side more than the other lying side. Go figure.
Certainly perception does play a big role in many people's lives, especially those that trust/believe the media without question. And it can be based on 1 or 2 stories and people extrapolate that across the board. I think such thinking is naive, the height of ignorance, but it is what it is....there are indeed lots of ignorant/gullible people out there that believe just about everything they read/here without experiencing something and learning the reality of it all themselves.
To illustrate this, this poll is a few years old but Phoenix actually rated very high in overall likability, just a few points down from the top ranking cities:
"The only other two major cities in the poll to have a net negative view are both in California: Los Angeles (33-40) and Oakland (21-39). However, California is home to the 11th most popular city, San Francisco (48-29)."
Big negative factor there in this poll for Los Angeles. Phoenix is way ahead in likability and trounces it in negativity. And San Francisco also has a much bigger negative factor compared to Phoenix and its "(49-18)" rating. Just a bit higher than San Francisco and much better in less negativity. A study like this tells me some major CA cities aren't doing a very good job on the perception factor.
Something else to highlight on the issue of AZ/likability. You mention SB1070. Laws like SB1070 actually had the majority of the country behind it at the time in this mainstream poll, with 52% saying it was "about right" and 11% saying it didn't go far enough:
That's a big likability factor nation wide for a piece of legislation.
Yet many tried hard to paint AZ as wrong/most disagree with such a thing. But reality says something else to some people. Gotta love the distortions that get played out for various agendas.
In the end, all states have their +/- . I have to disagree with you on states like CA and OR doing a good job in the perception. Besides the one poll I referenced above, one can fill a book on the not so nice factors that exists in those states that many people don't agree with that would put those states negative/laughably light by many. And the media is filled with such stories. And data backs it up.
I think we are pretty much on the same page in all of this. And so be it really in my view. Ignorant people will believe what they want to believe in the face of reality. And do we really want to convince such people to live in AZ in the first place? I know I wouldn't want such shallow thinking people to be my neighbor if I had a choice.
Arizona is a very nice place to live. It's a shame a lot of people think we are some sideways redneck type of place because of the media. I've seen people even say that here on C-D where you wouldn't think someone would say that but it's true... It only goes to show what media can do to something.
SB 1070, even though most didn't care about it, had the media going wild. They could make headlines like "Arizona passes controversial anti-immigration law" and get more readership/viewership. I've seen worse headlines but I can't think of one at the moment.
California has been under a lot of scrutiny in the media recently, it seems California is getting most of the hype for the drought even though we are in it too. But California, even if the media trashes it, will always appear to be a nice place to live thanks to TV and movies, not too mention the perfect weather for the most part. Something about California is picturesque and that will probably stay for a while unless something drastic happens. There's a reason why California grew to be this over-whelming over-populated state in the first place.
Oregon on the other hand has been highly ranked by the media in a lot of things. Even your source ranks Portland highly. We can argue about Oregon but perceptions are based on opinions and well those will never change. I think the media has been a fangirl for Oregon recently, particularly Portland, but this could change soon.
Yes California and Oregon have their pros and cons, but so do we. It's the matter of finding the place with the least amount of cons. I think whatever type of people Oregon attracts aren't people who would like living here. Oregon is known for being rainy, liberal, and hipster. That's the antonym of what this state is known for.
Arizona is a very nice place to live. It's a shame a lot of people think we are some sideways redneck type of place because of the media. I've seen people even say that here on C-D where you wouldn't think someone would say that but it's true... It only goes to show what media can do to something.
SB 1070, even though most didn't care about it, had the media going wild. They could make headlines like "Arizona passes controversial anti-immigration law" and get more readership/viewership. I've seen worse headlines but I can't think of one at the moment.
California has been under a lot of scrutiny in the media recently, it seems California is getting most of the hype for the drought even though we are in it too. But California, even if the media trashes it, will always appear to be a nice place to live thanks to TV and movies, not too mention the perfect weather for the most part. Something about California is picturesque and that will probably stay for a while unless something drastic happens. There's a reason why California grew to be this over-whelming over-populated state in the first place.
Oregon on the other hand has been highly ranked by the media in a lot of things.Even your source ranks Portland highly.We can argue about Oregon but perceptions are based on opinions and well those will never change. I think the media has been a fangirl for Oregon recently, particularly Portland, but this could change soon.
Yes California and Oregon have their pros and cons, but so do we. It's the matter of finding the place with the least amount of cons. I think whatever type of people Oregon attracts aren't people who would like living here. Oregon is known for being rainy, liberal, and hipster. That's the antonym of what this state is known for.
Eh, as I stated in my earlier post, their loss. No biggie in my book if people are that ignorant to believe a media with jaded views all over the place. And yes, of course, every state has +/-. Everyone has to figure out the ideal for themselves.
As for places like Portland being ranked high/being favorable in the media, again I think it's where you look. The survey I posted indeed shows Portland right up there. But Portland and Oregon has its share of knocks too if one looks around a bit:
Oregon is a top 10 state(#5) with the most people on food stamps:
And the high depression rate and suicide rate. Though some of this might be assisted suicide in that stat....not sure, but there appears to be lots of depression there according to this:
And of course shows like Porlandia which I think is really funny but in my view, it's busting on the hipster nature of the city pretty bad in a not so flattering way.
Not to pick on Portland/Oregon too much but just to show again that any of us can go into the media and find articles that dish on a city or state with not so nice words/stats like some do with Arizona. One can do it for CA. For NY. Any state. To each their own where they want to live of course and if they want to base it on distortions, facts, a mix of both, more power to them. People will see what they want to see/not see in any state in the end, including Arizona. It doesn't affect my life where people live/don't live in the end.
USAmerica’s 20 ‘Worst’ Small Cities Have One Curious Thing in Common — Can You Spot it?
The 20 “worst” cities in terms of quality of life, affordability, economic health and education all share one thing in common — they are all in California. The most liberal state in the country.
Wallet Hub, a website designed to help individuals and small businesses make informed financial decisions, released its annual listing of the year’s “Best and Worst Small Cities in America.” The company’s analysts looked at 1268 different small cities, rating each municipality on the aforementioned four categories.
USAmerica’s 20 ‘Worst’ Small Cities Have One Curious Thing in Common — Can You Spot it?
The 20 “worst” cities in terms of quality of life, affordability, economic health and education all share one thing in common — they are all in California. The most liberal state in the country.
Wallet Hub, a website designed to help individuals and small businesses make informed financial decisions, released its annual listing of the year’s “Best and Worst Small Cities in America.” The company’s analysts looked at 1268 different small cities, rating each municipality on the aforementioned four categories.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,743 posts, read 23,798,187 times
Reputation: 14640
Quote:
Originally Posted by :-D
Correlation does not equal causation...
They do for those that need a scapegoat to present strawman arguments, such as those that beleive all things are divided into two parts (red states and blue states) .
Last edited by Champ le monstre du lac; 11-10-2015 at 03:12 PM..
Taxpayers Fleeing Democrat-Run States for Republican Ones
Quote:
Top 5 loser states for Democrat governors in 2013:
· New York (114,929 people with $5.7 billion in AGI)
· Illinois (68,943 people with $3.8 billion in AGI)
· California (47,458 people with 3.8 billion in AGI)
· Connecticut (14,453 people with $1.8 billion in AGI)
· Massachusetts (11,915 people with $1 billion in AGI)
Top 5 winner states for Republican governors in 2013:
· Texas (152,912 people with $6 billion in AGI)
· Florida (74,094 people with 8.3 billion in AGI)
· South Carolina (29,176 people with 1.6 billion in AGI)
· North Carolina (26,207 people with $1.5 billion in AGI)
· Arizona (16,549 people with $1.5 billion in AGI)
Again, ALL WARM STATES that are "winners" - and almost all COLD states that are "losers".
You have yet to provide PROOF that folks are moving to those states because of the POLITICS. What you keep posting (over and over again) is NOT PROOF of the REASON why those states are gaining population. There is not a single shred of proof of the reason in those articles - the original author simply ASSumed what what he wanted to ASSume and passed it off as some kind of "proof". When the fact is he has no proof whatsoever of the reason people are moving. The original source of the migration patterns didn't ask "why?" so there is no way to "know" that those folks moved because of politics - and making that claim that those folks moved because they wanted to be in a "red" state is simply dishonest.
I'm one of those folks who moved to Arizona - and it sure as heck wasn't because it's a RED state.
I moved here because of the WEATHER - and I'm not alone.
Ken
Last edited by LordBalfor; 11-12-2015 at 08:16 AM..
So where are the proof showing that the IRS and Census data that shows the population shift from democrat to Republican states is inaccurate?
You will not stick to the thread topic and you refuse to discuss the IRS and Census data that was used for these statistics. Conversation ended
Where is the proof that the REASON people are moving from those "losing" states to those "gaining" states are moving because of Politics?
There is NONE.
Ken
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