why don't people get over when driving on the highway? (Phoenix: to live, safe)

[Pretzelogik]

Just don't do it on the Autobahn Failure to keep to the right 80 euros Autobahn Rules - HowStuffWorks

[Mister-A]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

It all comes back to enforcement. If you let people break laws, they'll break them. This applies to both people not staying right as well as people not driving the speed limit.

I agree 100%. I just see the hypocrisy of people saying "I WILL NOT CATER TO LAWBREAKING SPEEDERS", when they themselves are insisting on breaking the law in order to make their point.

I can only state again that I fully support driving the speed limit. The right lane is the place in which to do this. Common sense should dictate that if you are concerned about speeders, you should drive in the proper lane and force them to get out of your lane if they wish to break the law, rocketing off into the sunset and out of your life, as opposed to contributing to a more chaotic situation where multiple cars in multiple lanes are all attempting to maneuver between each other at multiple speeds for no apparent reason.



"Slowpokes" keeping right will contribute to safer highways by setting the pace for the intended slower "normal speed" on the right, and making the required adjustments for entering and exiting on the right easier on other drivers, again, as intended.

(Yes, slowertraffickeepright.com is a real website. Yes, they made an animated diagram trying to explain it.)

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by FloppyRunner

Exceeding the speed limit is against the law.

Driving in the left lane while not passing is against the law.



It is no. More. Complicated. Than that.

Whooooooooaaaa, that's all too much for me to handle...

Erroneous. AZ has a "reasonable and prudent" law, which can be used as an affirmative defense when contesting a speeding ticket. Not sure if it's valid for highways, since the reasonable and prudent limit is 65 mph and all the highways I know of have limits of 65-75 mph. But you very much can go above the posted speed limit up to 65 mph if conditions (weather, traffic, road condition) allow.

AZ sets its speed limits according to the 85th percentile rule, which is where they do a road study and then set the posted speed limit at 85% of the average speed. The fact that they set it below 100% of the average speed means they expect people to exceed it. In fact, I brought an email from the Phoenix DOT, stating there had been no road study done where I was ticketed, to court to contest a ticket. Cop didn't show, so I skated. But I was fully prepared to argue the law. His radar had me at 63 mph in a 45 zone, which I think was erroneous. But instead of just saying he had the wrong car, I was prepared to claim I was driving at a reasonable and prudent speed for that road and conditions. And absent a road study for that section of Tatum, the posted speed limit was invalid anyway.

[luv my dayton]

Same problem no matter what state your in. The highway police I call them. They have no clue what the left lane is really for. They decide to keep the speed limit the same and all drivers behind them, in which case the law should ticket them for obstructing the natural flow of traffice in the left lane. Its called the passing lane for a reason nimrods you pass to get around someone then back where you belong.

[luv my dayton]

Yes its true no more drivers ed. Think the liaility factor and cost was the problem. When sueing people became a career for many, that has eliminated alot of things that were beneficial.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by new2colo

I have explained my interpretation of the law above. Have you ever noticed that there are no signs on Valley freeways advising "slower traffic to keep right?" Those signs exist in rural areas, but are noticeably absent from metro Phoenix and Tucson. Have you ever asked yourself why?

The absence of those signs is a moot point. The law clearly states that on all roadways, a person proceeding at less than the normal traffic speed shall drive in the right lane. It doesn't say "on all roadways except those in the Phoenix or Tucson metro areas".

Originally Posted by new2colo

Also, your theory on our speeding laws, or supposed lack thereof, is just off. Our roads have speed limits and you can be ticketed for exceeding the limit. Arizona also has a law that makes exceeding the speed limit by 20 MPH a criminal offense, punishable by jail.

All this is very true, but cops will usually not pull anybody over for driving less than 10 MPH over the speed limit unless they're doing something more serious in traffic which warrants a citation. The criminal speeding law (20 MPH over the limit) is enforced at the officer's discretion. Somebody who is stopped for doing 85 in a 65 might receive a civil citation or even just a warning if the driver has a clean driving record. Cops have been known to lessen the speeding charge in those scenarios.

Originally Posted by new2colo

You live in an urban area. There are going to be annoyances of having other people around you at all times. Either deal with it, or move to someplace like Golden Valley or Clifton. You're not going to control other people's driving.

OK, since you like to post your own interpretation of the laws (and tell others where to move), here's my interpretation of why people tend to drive fast in the Phoenix area: we have mostly wide freeways and clear weather the majority of the time. The combination of those two factors allows for faster driving. This may be an urban area, but it's not anything like the urban areas back east where conditions are much different. Outside of rush hour & periods of traffic congestion, it's actually safer to be driving fast rather than slow on a freeway. Being slow is not equivalent to being safe.

So with that in mind, if you dislike fast travel, you are in the wrong place. Either deal with it or move somewhere that has narrower roads and/or worse weather where people are forced to drive slower. Pittsburgh might be ideal for somebody like you.

Originally Posted by new2colo

If flashing your gun or shooting someone makes you feel better, hey. It's childish and your license should be revoked immediately for purposely doing an action like that.

So now you think I flash a gun or shoot at other drivers??? Hey, I'm not one of those types at all! I only mentioned that there are maniacs out there who will not hesitate to use deadly force in traffic. It was only a cautionary warning that pissing somebody off can and does lead to serious road rage incidents. As for me personally, if some aggressive speeder came up on my rear end, I would rather move over and let him get by instead of stubbornly remaining in the left lane & causing a possible altercation.

Originally Posted by new2colo

Have you ever noticed no matter how "aggressively" you cut a left laner off that the majority of time they STILL sit in the left lane?

Of course I've noticed this ... and other posters have stated the same thing: slow drivers usually don't move to the right, even when they are repeatedly passed. Some of them are just plain clueless, but more of them than not are just being stubborn jackasses, and are playing the role of speed enforcement cop. They're breaking the law left & right, but all they (and you) seem to harp on is how horrible & criminal the speeders are.

Originally Posted by new2colo

You cannot control how other people drive.

This statement is absolutely correct, but it applies to everybody. I don't cut off the slow left lane drivers for the purpose of controlling their driving ... I do it for the purpose of getting around them and being on my way. If the slowies won't move to the right after being passed and/or cut off, it's their problem, not mine.

It seems that the majority of complaints about the fast & furious Phoenix drivers are coming from the transplants. You and all the other transplants need to understand that Phoenix drivers are generally fast for good reasons. If our faster rate of travel bothers you that much, then you either need to move, or speed up. We live in a fast paced society anyway, and nobody is going to slow down for you if you're unable or unwilling to keep up with the pace.

Originally Posted by new2colo

We all paid for these freeways, everyone has the right to use them.

For the last time: driving is not a right ... it's a privilege. We have the privilege of using the freeways, but not the right to do so.

[Bungle]

I think the last time this was all brought up it went over 15 pages.

[Mister-A]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I only mentioned that there are maniacs out there who will not hesitate to use deadly force in traffic. It was only a cautionary warning that pissing somebody off can and does lead to serious road rage incidents. As for me personally, if some aggressive speeder came up on my rear end, I would rather move over and let him get by instead of stubbornly remaining in the left lane & causing a possible altercation.

I will point out that an acquaintance of mine was murdered trying to break up one of these incidents a couple of years ago. His passenger had jumped out of the car to tell off an aggressive tailgater, who turned out to be an armed drunk. Your point is not lost on me, and shouldn't be lost on others.

Several of these posts take the tone that they won't be told what to do on account of "speeders". The highway is not the place to prove your point. If, in your opinion, somebody is a freeway maniac, you're a fool if you stay in the wrong lane just to try to make them tailgate you and force them to slow down. You're doubly a fool if you try to pull over and have an argument with a stranger about their driving. (After all, this person is, in your own estimation, a proven jerk who doesn't care about the safety of others. What do you think is going to happen? He's going to weep softly, apologize, and never do it again?)

If you're doing what you're supposed to do, they'll pass you on the left with all the other "speeders" and you'll never see them again, which is in everyone's best interest, including your own, your family, the bystanders who may be stuck in the proximity of the subsequent incident, the officers and paramedics who will have to waste time and public resources responding to the aftermath of a pointless pissing contest, etc.

[FloppyRunner]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Erroneous. AZ has a "reasonable and prudent" law, which can be used as an affirmative defense when contesting a speeding ticket. Not sure if it's valid for highways, since the reasonable and prudent limit is 65 mph and all the highways I know of have limits of 65-75 mph. But you very much can go above the posted speed limit up to 65 mph if conditions (weather, traffic, road condition) allow.

Gee, you caught me. Let me restate.

"Speeding" (as defined by AZ law) is against the law.

Driving in the left lane while not passing is against the law.


The point remains; if you want to abide by the law, it's impossible to do so by maintaining a reasonable and prudent speed in the left lane while not passing anybody. Let the speeders (or just people going faster than you) go on their merry way; you have nothing to lose (except a few lane changes), you avoid confrontation, and traffic flows more smoothly.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by FloppyRunner

Gee, you caught me. Let me restate.

"Speeding" (as defined by AZ law) is against the law.

Driving in the left lane while not passing is against the law.


The point remains; if you want to abide by the law, it's impossible to do so by maintaining a reasonable and prudent speed in the left lane while not passing anybody. Let the speeders (or just people going faster than you) go on their merry way; you have nothing to lose (except a few lane changes), you avoid confrontation, and traffic flows more smoothly.

It's reasonable and prudent UNDER the circumstances.

It's a subjective measure based on how traffic flows under the circumstances. You are to drive w/ the flow. If the left lane is flowing at 80mph and you are driving at 65mph you are being less safe and are not acting reasonable under the circumstances. You would then need to move right to a lane more suited to your driving tempo.

It doesn't say reasonable and prudent but below the speed limit, that would be objective.

It's a flexible standard that takes traffic trends into consideration.