Saudis siphoning Arizona Water (buyer, price, design)

[DougStark]

Ground water use is regulated by the AZ Groundwater Management Act. Read the regulation before you draw conclusions on this story.

[LBTRS]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

In my experience, it's usually conservatives who reach to conclusions without bothering to check the facts. But I suppose in your case, liberals also do this. I suppose blind opinions really aren't party specific and comes down to the individual. All you saw was Saudi and criticism and stereotyped "Muslim Bashing" It has nothing to do with Muslims or Saudi Arabia. If these investors were from Denmark, I would have the same opinion. It is essentially that Arizona residents can be overzealous at times with regard to covering news and issues related to water conservation yet this somehow fell through the cracks. This is a criticism of Arizona not necessarily Saudia Arabia. The point I am making is Arizona was willing to turn a blind eye and sell it's more precious resource when dollar signs appeared. If you live in Arizona, you would know that water conservation is a passionate issue and there is always discussion regarding water stores and how long that will last us. Yet, we are willing to essentially give billions of it away to make money.

So let me get this straight...you're concerned about his reaching conclusions without knowing the facts and his stereotyping? Then, in the same post where you chastise him for doing this you reach conclusions and "stereotype" conservatives with his behavior?

Some of your posts really make me wonder.

[JGMotorsport64]

In Arizona it's not as simple to buy land and pump groundwater. You know what they say about water in the West? We lead that pack with it being one of the most heavily overseen and regulated resources in our entire state.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Did you read this article in the Arizona Republic? Pretty fascinating

A Saudi Arabian dairy company called Almarai purchased a large farm about 90 miles from Phoenix and has planted thousands of acres of alfalfa to make hay. It then ships the hay to Saudi Arabia to feed its cows.“They (Almarai) got about 15 water wells when they purchased the property," Halverson said. "Now, each one of those wells can pump about 1.5 billion gallons of water. It’s an incredible amount of water they’re going to be drawing up from that aquifer underground."

Montini: Saudis are siphoning Arizona water to make hay

I can't believe more Arizona residents are not infuriated by this. We talk so passionately about water conservation in this state yet we are billions of gallons of water away for hay to feed Saudi cows.

This alone speaks loudly & clearly that the drought is not as serious as it's made out to be. If we allow a Saudi firm to run a farm which uses an absurd amount of water, then as far as I'm concerned, we have no business to increase water rates or issue "rebates" to people in metro Phoenix for ripping out their grass lawns & converting to ugly desert landscape. This also clearly proves my point that agriculture consumes a far greater proportion of water than all the grass lawns. Nobody has any business to balk at people who enjoy green landscape when this kind of nonsense is happening!

Originally Posted by jamies

Yah sure, destroy the aquafer. The Saudi don't care, not their land. Just exploit the stupid americans, then blow up more of their infadel planes.

Be careful. According to the good Lord, this would be "pointless Muslim bashing", even though there's a lot of truth in it.

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

In my experience, it's usually conservatives who reach to conclusions without bothering to check the facts. But I suppose in your case, liberals also do this. I suppose blind opinions really aren't party specific and comes down to the individual. All you saw was Saudi and criticism and stereotyped "Muslim Bashing" It has nothing to do with Muslims or Saudi Arabia. If these investors were from Denmark, I would have the same opinion. It is essentially that Arizona residents can be overzealous at times with regard to covering news and issues related to water conservation yet this somehow fell through the cracks. This is a criticism of Arizona not necessarily Saudia Arabia. The point I am making is Arizona was willing to turn a blind eye and sell it's more precious resource when dollar signs appeared. If you live in Arizona, you would know that water conservation is a passionate issue and there is always discussion regarding water stores and how long that will last us. Yet, we are willing to essentially give billions of it away to make money.

The point is there is virtually NO difference in regards to use of water between foreigners - or anybody else - buying up land and growing their own crops vs them simply buying the crops from American growers. I didn't see you complaining about us EXPORTING agricultural products - a $1.5 BILLION businesses - and yet you are suddenly up in arms because Saudis have simply bought the land that the crops are grown on. How does that somehow make ANY difference in regards to the use of the water? The water is used up either way.
Again, the whole point of the thread reeks of Saudi-bashing.
If you disagree with that assessment, explain to me how the Saudis owning the land - vs them simply buying the crops - makes any difference in the use of the water.

Ken

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

This alone speaks loudly & clearly that the drought is not as serious as it's made out to be. If we allow a Saudi firm to run a farm which uses an absurd amount of water, then as far as I'm concerned, we have no business to increase water rates or issue "rebates" to people in metro Phoenix for ripping out their grass lawns & converting to ugly desert landscape. This also clearly proves my point that agriculture consumes a far greater proportion of water than all the grass lawns. Nobody has any business to balk at people who enjoy green landscape when this kind of nonsense is happening!



Be careful. According to the good Lord, this would be "pointless Muslim bashing", even though there's a lot of truth in it.

So Americans don't use up water?
Why does this thread specifically pick on the Saudi's when American farmers use up millions of times more water? If the issue is the water, the issue is the WATER - not WHO OWNS THE LAND. When the OP made the point of the thread be WHO owns the land vs the fact that water is being used, THEN it became "pointless Muslim bashing".
Again, the ONLY difference is WHO owns the farm. The water is gone either way.
If Saudis simply bought the crop from American farmers this thread would never have seen the light of day - after all, foreigners buy Arizona crops every single day. Generally that's considered to be a GOOD thing.

Ken

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by LordBalfor

The point is there is virtually NO difference in regards to use of water between foreigners - or anybody else - buying up land and growing their own crops vs them simply buying the crops from American growers. I didn't see you complaining about us EXPORTING agricultural products - a $1.5 BILLION businesses - and yet you are suddenly up in arms because Saudis have simply bought the land that the crops are grown on. How does that somehow make ANY difference in regards to the use of the water? The water is used up either way.
Again, the whole point of the thread reeks of Saudi-bashing.
If you disagree with that assessment, explain to me how the Saudis owning the land - vs them simply buying the crops - makes any difference in the use of the water.

Ken

I think the problem is that the value of the water is huge gain for any foreign country. Whether they grow their food here, or we export to them, the fantastic value of our water is not of enough concern in either transaction.

[Mister-A]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I agree but the point you are missing is this purchase was made during the height of the water conservation movement when all eyes on this issue. So it is amazing that a foreign investor was able to purchase nearly 10,000 acre of land and have access to billions of water for 47 million dollars. The way water conservation is covered in the state, it's amazing the state and it's residents are just giving this a pass.

So, if I understand this, the people who owned the land decided to sell it for $47,000,000. I'm not sure what the state was supposed to do about it.

I'm sure more than a few people would complain about fearmongering and wasteful spending if the state decided to bid $50,000,000 to buy the farm outright to control the water.

Originally Posted by Hoonose

I think the problem is that the value of the water is huge gain for any foreign country. Whether they grow their food here, or we export to them, the fantastic value of our water is not of enough concern in either transaction.

If the water rights were more fantastically valuable than what the foreign firm paid for it, why weren't American buyers offering more?

[Hoonose]

Originally Posted by Mister-A

If the water rights were more fantastically valuable than what the foreign firm paid for it, why weren't American buyers offering more?

Lack of need for businesses within our borders who already have their water needs met. Or a lack of knowledge of these sorts of water rights that can be exploited.

About 30 years ago Scottsdale paid huge money for a local ranch around where I live for future water rights.

Mining company agrees to acquire Planet Ranch

These folks are more savvy.

[LordBalfor]

Originally Posted by Hoonose

I think the problem is that the value of the water is huge gain for any foreign country. Whether they grow their food here, or we export to them, the fantastic value of our water is not of enough concern in either transaction.

So we shouldn't export food?
Or minerals? - lots of water used in the mining industry.
How exactly are Arizona businesses supposed to make money?
WHY is this particular farm being singled out? What about all the American-owned farms who export alfalfa?
Other nations import far more U.S. hay products than Saudi Arabia does (Japan is the top buyer, followed by China and Korea). Why are they not the subject here? Why single out the Saudis?

Ken