PSA: Changes to how you will get billed for electricity starting next summer... (2013, credit)

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by thinkalot

Many year round people use less than 7200kWh. I used 5075 kWh in the last 12 months. That is with no effort to watch how much I use.

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

It always blows my mind when I see that...HOW is it possible?

We use in the 22,000kWh range.

We have about 1900sqft and was curious after reading your posts as I had no idea what we used electric wise in a year and just checked. For 12 months/2015 we used just about 6500 kWh total. We have efficient everything/run lots of stuff on the .05 kw rate including our electric water heater on a timer and have a decent built house it appears insulation wise so perhaps this is a good chunk of it. We don't have a pool but in our other house that had a pool running the pool pump on the off peak rates didn't really add that much as I recall to the bill.

While our use might be low on average(maybe/maybe not?), I'm guessing you're quite a bit above average in use HX unless you have a 3k+ house. I also think a bunch of it is how cool we keep our house in the summer. I also heard some people run heat a lot in winter but we use ours very little though our heat pump is very efficient when we use it on a few cold nights.

I remember running solar panel payback period calculators(buying outright of course) and it computed a pay back time in the 40 year range for our use.

[HX_Guy]

Haha well yeah with that kind of usage sure. :P

We are above average in usage, but a lot closer to average than you are. Like I was saying earlier, most people's usage I look at seems to be in the 16,000 - 18,000 range.

Did you do a Custom Usage Download to see exactly how much you used on-peak, off-peak and how much you spent over the year? It's the best way to get the info but I swear it's like pulling teeth trying to get this info from people. We went as far as creating a website with how-to directions (www.getmyAPShistory.com) but people still guard this info with their life it seems.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Haha well yeah with that kind of usage sure. :P

We are above average in usage, but a lot closer to average than you are. Like I was saying earlier, most people's usage I look at seems to be in the 16,000 - 18,000 range.

wow, ok, I missed that stat. No love from the power/solar companies for people like us. We do travel a bit so I'm sure that helps but we aren't gone half the year to be that below average.

What average sq ft house are you seeing that usage?

[HX_Guy]

I'd say 2200 - 2800 sq ft.

[kell490]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

The 19% comes from comparing the current Standard and TOU plans to the post July 2017 same plans. Those plans will still be around if you are a current solar customer (they are being grandfathered).

The current Time-Of-Use Noon - 7PM is approx. $0.24/kWh on-peak and is going up 19.6% to $.0285/kWh. Off-peak is going up the same 19.6%. Of course that's only for solar customers.

But if you're not a solar customer, the off-peak is going up even more. Current TOU off-peak is $0.061/kWh and going to $0.08, or a 31% increase. That's a pretty big increase and it has nothing to do wit the Demand which is only during on-peak hours. The on-peak rate is actually going down on a kWh basis, but the cost is being made up with the Demand charge.

If they get this passed what is the damage to the solar industry I'm assuming lease modal is going to suffer the most?

I don't know anyone using time advantage I use combined advantage not sure what TOU is that

[Ponderosa]

If R-3 is for solar users then who is R1 and R-2 for? Is it an option. In either case, I would have to make some lifestyle changes because those off peak rates where I load nearly 80% of my use are much higher than the current ones for me. The demand charge is about half, though and there is that noon to 3, so it would be complicated. Think I will get a window unit for the bedroom and leave the house at the daytime level if this comes to pass. I might do that anyway.

And that is the thing here too. You can't just go get a bill and recalc it under the new rates, because you will change your usage patterns to fit the rate you have. The calculators on APS say I would pay 30% more on TOD plan than I do on a demand plan, but in reality I would not as I would not cool my house down so much at night, heat the spa when I have no intention of using it etc. I guess that is what APS is after as well as getting solar: reduce electrical usage while holding or increasing revenues.

[ScottsdaleMark]

Thank you all for this thread, some useful info and opinions here.

Firstly let me state for anyone who is not on a demand plan. I switched to a demand plan a couple of years ago. We did not change our behavior at all, and our expenditures are still a lot lower under the "demand" plan, like 20-30% lower if I remember (been a while since I did the math comparison). So it may be that even your "normal" behavior, you happen to work out pretty well with a demand plan.

That said, I may look into getting a smart thermostat and pre-cooling the house prior to the peak period because I do imagine that would accrue some nice savings.

[Az_Mitch]

APS has some bill comparison information in their rate case. Go to this document, http://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/0000170846.pdf and jump to page 386.

They have tables comparing current bills with usage to new plans and usage, so the first one is an analysis for customers moving from E-12 to R-XS. They have tables for both summer and winter rate charges. They also have a percentage of change. These charges include the demand charge for the new plans and APS is just estimating that due to the usage. It might give you a better comparison for what your new bill would be under each plan with your current usage and pattern of behavior.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

Thank you all for this thread, some useful info and opinions here.

Firstly let me state for anyone who is not on a demand plan. I switched to a demand plan a couple of years ago. We did not change our behavior at all, and our expenditures are still a lot lower under the "demand" plan, like 20-30% lower if I remember (been a while since I did the math comparison). So it may be that even your "normal" behavior, you happen to work out pretty well with a demand plan.

That said, I may look into getting a smart thermostat and pre-cooling the house prior to the peak period because I do imagine that would accrue some nice savings.

Thanks. I understand though that current demand-charge based plans have much lower off-peak rates than what the proposed plans show. So that could be a deal breaker.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

You really need both for it to work...battery and net metering. Battery for the demand, and net metering for the power you need over the summer. A battery will never solve that problem in my opinion because you need thousands of kWh "stored up" to get through the summer without buying it from APS.

With prices for solar equipment down quite a bit over the years I think you can get by without net-metering. A friend of mine built his own system (he's an electrical engineer). It cost him ~13k in materials for a 5 kW system including 24 golf-cart batteries. So less than 10k after federal tax credit. It's not grid-tied at all. He gets by most of the time, ok he lives alone in a 1600sf home with a very efficient air conditioner. But the proof of concept is here. It is definitively worth it without net metering.