Should Arizona legalize non-tribal commercialized casinos? (Phoenix: buying, income, legal)
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Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,660,819 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear
Really? There is talks in the works of sending the Raiders to Las Vegas. Las Vegas has expressed a lot of interest in having an NFL team and I was recently watching a pre-season game where the owner of the LA Rams (playing the Cowboys) was discussing this probability. He thinks the Raiders if anything would go to Vegas. I would love to hear where you got that information from.
Vegas tried to get the San Diego Chargers to relocate constantly, but the NFL Comission won't allow it. Again, their concern I'm sure is players taking dives/point shaving&fixed games
You do know that the NFL Comission will never ever ever ever ever allow a team in Las Vegas, don't you? And it's because of the gambling. Their concern I'm sure is things like point shaving and fixed games.
And believe me, it's not like Las Vegas didn't try, it was Oscar Goodman's passion while mayor, getting an NFL franchise in Las Vegas, mainly tried to get the Chargers to relocate. But the comission would never allow it.
I never said anything about the NFL and Las Vegas, that was Prickly Pear, plus, Roger Goodell works for the owners and if 24 out of 32 owners approve a team moving to Vegas than there is no stopping that. I'm not saying it will happen, but I showed you in my PA example, if there was non Native American casinos in AZ (I don't think there will be) the Cardinals would not be going anywhere.
If you want another example, look to Ohio, both Jack Cleveland Casino and Jack Cincinnati Casino (both non Native American casinos) opened within the last 4 years, with both being mere miles from their respective NFL teams, guess what, to my knowledge both the Browns and Bengals are still playing in their respective cities.
I didn't see the Lions (although some fans probably wish they left) leave Michigan and Detroit when the city got three non Native American casinos, MGM Grand Detroit, MotorCity Casino, and Greektown Casino.
New Jersey has been trying for years to get sports betting authorized to an avail, let's say they did (I don't think they will), do you really think both the Jets and Giants would be forced to leave their 6 year old MetLife Stadium which both teams combined spent $1.6 billion of their own money on?
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,660,819 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga
I never said anything about the NFL and Las Vegas, that was Prickly Pear, plus, Roger Goodell works for the owners and if 24 out of 32 owners approve a team moving to Vegas than there is no stopping that. I'm not saying it will happen, but I showed you in my PA example, if there was non Native American casinos in AZ (I don't think there will be) the Cardinals would not be going anywhere.
If you want another example, look to Ohio, both Jack Cleveland Casino and Jack Cincinnati Casino (both non Native American casinos) opened within the last 4 years, with both being mere miles from their respective NFL teams, guess what, to my knowledge both the Browns and Bengals are still playing in their respective cities.
I didn't see the Lions (although some fans probably wish they left) leave Michigan and Detroit when the city got three non Native American casinos, MGM Grand Detroit, MotorCity Casino, and Greektown Casino.
New Jersey has been trying for years to get sports betting authorized to an avail, let's say they did (I don't think they will), do you really think both the Jets and Giants would be forced to leave their 6 year old MetLife Stadium which both teams combined spent $1.6 billion of their own money on?
As far as I know, the only place in New Jersey with legalized gambling is Atlantic City, which has no professional sports.
Again, I'm not talking one slot joint here and there, I'm talking full on casinos like Vegas, Reno and AC. Pro Sports, mainly football and basketball would wan't no part due to possible player corruption
As far as I know, the only place in New Jersey with legalized gambling is Atlantic City, which has no professional sports.
Again, I'm not talking one slot joint here and there, I'm talking full on casinos like Vegas, Reno and AC. Pro Sports, mainly football and basketball would wan't no part due to possible player corruption
Pretty much all of the stand alone non Native American casinos I mentioned in my previous posts in the various NFL cities are full on casinos like Vegas, Reno and AC. Rivers Casino, a stones throw away from Heinz Field, has over 100 table games, including blackjack, craps, roulette and poker.
You do know that back in February 2001, Nevada Gaming Regulation 22.120(b) went into effect, which lifted the more than a 40-year long ban that prohibited the state's sports books to make lines on Nevada's teams. So in essence you can bet on UNLV and University of Nevada-Reno games (football and basketball) in both Las Vegas and Reno.
In addition to that, there are already 3 post season college basketball tournaments held each year in Vegas, the Pac-12, Mountain West and WAC, and you can bet on all of those games in the same casinos that the games are being played in. You realize there have been numerous college basketball point-shaving incidents in the US history with teams located throughout the country. From 1990 to 2000, there were players from Maine, Northwestern, Maryland, Boston College and Arizona State all suspended for betting on games.
There is so much illegal sports betting going on throughout the US, it's a joke to think that the only place "corruption" can happen is in Las Vegas, because of the gambling. Actually, because of the legal sports betting in Nevada, it probably is one of the safest places to place a team, because it would be under more scrutiny than other teams.
I know you didn't mention hockey, but here is a good read if you ever wondered about the country and it's gambling obsession.
And the leagues, it appears, are not so opposed to betting on sports as they’ve been in the past. Last year, teams from the NFL — the pro sports business that has been most adamantly against legal sports betting — wasted little time in signing partnership and sponsorship deals with DFS (Daily Fantasy Sports) operators, even though it’s immediately clear that DFS satisfies most definitions of gambling.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,660,819 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga
Pretty much all of the stand alone non Native American casinos I mentioned in my previous posts in the various NFL cities are full on casinos like Vegas, Reno and AC. Rivers Casino, a stones throw away from Heinz Field, has over 100 table games, including blackjack, craps, roulette and poker.
You do know that back in February 2001, Nevada Gaming Regulation 22.120(b) went into effect, which lifted the more than a 40-year long ban that prohibited the state's sports books to make lines on Nevada's teams. So in essence you can bet on UNLV and University of Nevada-Reno games (football and basketball) in both Las Vegas and Reno.
In addition to that, there are already 3 post season college basketball tournaments held each year in Vegas, the Pac-12, Mountain West and WAC, and you can bet on all of those games in the same casinos that the games are being played in. You realize there have been numerous college basketball point-shaving incidents in the US history with teams located throughout the country. From 1990 to 2000, there were players from Maine, Northwestern, Maryland, Boston College and Arizona State all suspended for betting on games.
There is so much illegal sports betting going on throughout the US, it's a joke to think that the only place "corruption" can happen is in Las Vegas, because of the gambling. Actually, because of the legal sports betting in Nevada, it probably is one of the safest places to place a team, because it would be under more scrutiny than other teams.
I know you didn't mention hockey, but here is a good read if you ever wondered about the country and it's gambling obsession.
And the leagues, it appears, are not so opposed to betting on sports as they’ve been in the past. Last year, teams from the NFL — the pro sports business that has been most adamantly against legal sports betting — wasted little time in signing partnership and sponsorship deals with DFS (Daily Fantasy Sports) operators, even though it’s immediately clear that DFS satisfies most definitions of gambling.
I remember the Boston College point shaving scandal, the Lucchese family was involved with that one. Henry Hill talked about it in the book Wise Guy.
Anyways, why are you people all in favor of gambling? I haven't gambled since 09 when I lost $50 at a black jack table in 3 minutes (almost a whole days pay at the time, that was a wake up call). All a casino is is a wealth transfer from the customers/gamblers to the house, since the house wins 97% of the time, for every $100 they take in, they only pay out $3. I'm not okay with that
I remember the Boston College point shaving scandal, the Lucchese family was involved with that one. Henry Hill talked about it in the book Wise Guy.
Anyways, why are you people all in favor of gambling? I haven't gambled since 09 when I lost $50 at a black jack table in 3 minutes (almost a whole days pay at the time, that was a wake up call). All a casino is is a wealth transfer from the customers/gamblers to the house, since the house wins 97% of the time, for every $100 they take in, they only pay out $3. I'm not okay with that
You don't have to be in favor with gambling, but why should that stop somebody else from gambling?
The state and tribes should not have a monopoly on gaming. I support having a casino anywhere. They don't increase crime as the puritans believe. In many cases they can actually help stimulate an economy.
I remember the Boston College point shaving scandal, the Lucchese family was involved with that one. Henry Hill talked about it in the book Wise Guy.
Anyways, why are you people all in favor of gambling? I haven't gambled since 09 when I lost $50 at a black jack table in 3 minutes (almost a whole days pay at the time, that was a wake up call). All a casino is is a wealth transfer from the customers/gamblers to the house, since the house wins 97% of the time, for every $100 they take in, they only pay out $3. I'm not okay with that
Bookies and organized crime can manipulate sporting competitions from anywhere. Casinos don't factor into that equation.
You lost money at black jack? No one's fault but your own. There's a difference between being in favor of opening a market and being in favor of gambling (similar to the belief that drugs should be de-criminalized does not equate support of using them). I don't gamble so I make a choice not to gamble or go to casinos because I have no interest. But it's not my place to tell someone else he/she cannot gamble.
If you take a whole days pay to the casino and can't afford to lose it - that is on you .... you shouldn't have ever walked through the door
As for gambling & the NFL - as already shown, there is plenty of gambling in NFL cities, both tribal and non-tribal - that isn't an issue.
There is lip service to the concern of sports betting - which is only legal in NV at this time.
However, this isn't the 30s. Society is much more mobile, the players are compensated to a higher degree and if someone wanted to leverage a player they wouldn't need to wait for them to come to them.
Right now there are players who go to Vegas during the season to gamble and party and then fly back to their home city .... having a team play 8 games in Vegas isn't going to increase the risk of a player getting caught up or exposed
Even the NCAA is hypocritical in this regard as they hold tournaments and bowl games in Vegas for their major revenue sports (the sports where there is the most gambling action)
I wouldn't be surprised to see vegas get a team at some point if their population continues to grow & other industries mature - they are already getting a hockey team - right now Vegas has it pretty good as they are the only ones profiting off sports wagering
As for gambling & the NFL - as already shown, there is plenty of gambling in NFL cities, both tribal and non-tribal - that isn't an issue.
There is lip service to the concern of sports betting - which is only legal in NV at this time.
However, this isn't the 30s. Society is much more mobile, the players are compensated to a higher degree and if someone wanted to leverage a player they wouldn't need to wait for them to come to them.
Right now there are players who go to Vegas during the season to gamble and party and then fly back to their home city .... having a team play 8 games in Vegas isn't going to increase the risk of a player getting caught up or exposed
If anybody wants to see how the NFL feels about legal sports betting, look no further than London. The NFL has been playing at least one game there every year since 2007 and most recently has been averaging 3 games played there each season. In London and the rest of the U.K. not only can you legally bet on sports, including the NFL games played there, you can bet on everything and anything, including who will win political elections, including American elections! I know there has been talk of putting an NFL team in London, I'm not saying it will or will not happen, that's a whole other discussion, but if the NFL has no issues putting a team across the pond, then there should be no issues putting one in Las Vegas.
Camaro, I don't know if there are too many casinos or not enough casinos in both Arizona and the US, but I do know if a stand alone non-Native American casino was built in Westgate, right across from UofP stadium or anywhere else in the Phoenix metroplex with slots, craps, roulette, blackjack, poker, and everything a Vegas casino has (except for sports betting obviously), the NFL will not be making the Cardinals leave the state.
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