Prop 205 to Legalize Recreational Marijuana in Arizona (NOV 2016) (minimum wage, cabinet)
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How would you have voted if this were a more clear and less expansive measure? My hang up was how the bill was drafted, but my fear is that the legislature will be feel emboldened to take indirect steps to prevent his from coming up again. They've been trying that for decades back when we legalized MMJ in the 90s the first time.
You have a, IMO, reasonable opinion compared to a lot of the NO on 205ers on here.
As you know from our back and forth a few weeks ago my issue with it is how it was written. I can name a few changes that would get my support for the law pretty easily.
1) Set the tax rate as not less than 10% at the state level and another tax at not less than 5% for the cities themselves. Allow the state and cities to vote on the tax rates individually. By adding a firm tax rate into the bill it is difficult to change down the road.
2) Adjust the punishment clauses to specify that they only apply to any city, county, or state government agencies. They left it too open to interpretation which created this odd area around businesses, as we discussed.
3) Put in some specific DUI language. Probably the largest issue with the bill and I'm aware they said it wasn't okay which is enough to allow our legislature to make adjustments and still remain within the purpose of the law.
4) Make all new recreational marijuana licensing and do not allow medical dispensaries first shot, simple lottery system. They will likely get them but there is no need to play favorites.
5) Allow voters to vote at the voting district level to decide if they want to allow any recreational dispensaries in their community. Could make this a city wide thing instead.
6) Set the regulation board as fully elected by the voters.
I'm sure there are a few more changes but that is it off the top of my head. Those would go a long way to the right law for AZ.
As you know from our back and forth a few weeks ago my issue with it is how it was written. I can name a few changes that would get my support for the law pretty easily.
1) Set the tax rate as not less than 10% at the state level and another tax at not less than 5% for the cities themselves. Allow the state and cities to vote on the tax rates individually. By adding a firm tax rate into the bill it is difficult to change down the road.
2) Adjust the punishment clauses to specify that they only apply to any city, county, or state government agencies. They left it too open to interpretation which created this odd area around businesses, as we discussed.
3) Put in some specific DUI language. Probably the largest issue with the bill and I'm aware they said it wasn't okay which is enough to allow our legislature to make adjustments and still remain within the purpose of the law.
4) Make all new recreational marijuana licensing and do not allow medical dispensaries first shot, simple lottery system. They will likely get them but there is no need to play favorites.
5) Allow voters to vote at the voting district level to decide if they want to allow any recreational dispensaries in their community. Could make this a city wide thing instead.
6) Set the regulation board as fully elected by the voters.
I'm sure there are a few more changes but that is it off the top of my head. Those would go a long way to the right law for AZ.
I like the municipal control idea, I think that would really help alleviate concerns of residents in say Gilbert compared to Tempe or Tucson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark
So, short answer, I'd vote no on probably all legalization measures, but I felt compelled to take a much stronger reaction to 205 this year because of just how bad I thought the law would have been, than I would have to a more modest proposition.
When I was a kid and saw things more rosily, the libertarian "make everything legal" personal liberty argument was something that I thought made a lot of sense, so I truly do "get it" when people make that argument about personal liberty. I understand the viewpoint.
The problem I wrestle with is just all the collateral damage I have seen from all sorts of substances, and no marijuana isn't first on the list of problem drugs, but it isn't a positive force in the world, either, in my opinion, as a recreational drug.
Medicinally, if it helps someone, I don't have much of a problem with that. I do know that it really does help some people and that's a positive.
If it was to be legalized, I'd like to see it regulated by an independent government agency rather than an industry-stacked board; I'd like to see more restrictions on where they can set up shop; I'd like to see edibles banned because if you take that stuff out of the equation then the whole "children accidentally eating it" aspect is no longer a problem; stuff like that.
If you can't make tobacco products or liquor products that even tangentially appeal to children or teens -- e.g. recently-banned things like Camel Krush cigarettes or those Four Loko, Sparks, etc. Energy Drink Malt Beverages that got banned a few years ago -- then I think it is more than reasonable to say that there's no way you should be able to make any marijuana product that could meet the same definition, e.g. pot-infused gummy bears or candy bars or what have you.
But, again, this is where the federal government's ignoring this ballooning issue is doing none of us any favors. There is no federal body to set standards and govern advertising and whatever else -- it's a free for all and every state is on its own -- and at any time the federal government still could come in and shut it all down as illegal anyway. It's kind of ridiculous when you think about it.
Like I said many pages ago, this was a first-pitch, home-run hack by the MPP. Now the count is 0-1 and maybe they'll take a pitch or two and shorten up on their stroke. I assume they'll be back at some point with a more selective measure that removes some of the most egregious concerns. Time will tell.
These are great points, one issue with marijuana is marketing, cigarettes were shamed out of existence with those "Truth" ads that came out a few years ago. Yet, edible marijuana looks like gummy bears.
At a minimum this needs to be removed as a schedule 1 narcotic, it should be researched for its impact on health more thoroughly, I am an advocate for allowing marijuana legalization as my posts have indicated. But I know people that will make ridiculous claims like "it's good for you," that needs to be disproven. It's a recreational activity like beer, and like beer its not good for you.
You people that voted not to legalize it. The down image has been a lie since before you were born. But, in eye of the believer, they believe the federal government. And the government never lies.........right?
Well, we voted for it in California. As soon as it goes into law, come on over. We'll will be happy to take your tax money.
I don't get Arizona. If you are a resident, you can buy more weapons than gawd............but cannabis?...........ohooo no,
that's bad................
You've been lied to. When is the last time you saw people get in a fight when drinking.
When is the last time you saw a fight after two guys smoked a joint?..............Jesus what is wrong with you people. Think for yourselves.
You've been duped.
Last edited by broncosilly; 11-10-2016 at 03:59 PM..
It failed for good reason. I voted for it but I can understand the opposition. The primary reason it failed was due to drivers and safety. I don't think people have an issue with people smoking pot but they are concerned about people driving while high. There is no real way to diagnose if someone had smoked recently or last week because it stays in your system for a long time. I think the technology to assess whether someone smoked recently is still in development. But I think once they come up with that solution, it will likely pass.
I also think there should be legislation to outlaw certain edibles and anything that could look appealing to children within reason like lolilops.
I would disagree with this. I think the primary reason it failed is the older generation, who are the largest voting block, many of which have a "reefer madness" view of marijuana. And the younger generation who are most for this proposal aren't big voters. I think many in the older generation fail to understand all the problems/issues/violence that occurs by keeping pot underground and illegal in the black market. For this reason alone and the lost tax revenue and what I feel is the waste of money prosecuting people for it when I think there's far more serious crimes I think that law enforcement resources of all stripes could be more efficiently used to address, it's unfortunate the proposal failed.
I've heard arguments that the prop/law doesn't dot this "i" or cross that "t" but I think it's missing the big picture and to me that's getting it out of the black market as that to me should be the biggest issue to address.
My bet is the combo that killed it was:
1) Bad bill (I find many bond request/props here to be poorly conceptualized and poorly written)
2) Reefer Madness crowd
3) Medical Marijuana is already available
4) Campaign against was better funded and more vocal (TV ads especially)
It is what it is. I wouldn't storm the streets in protest or anything.
It absolutely is a straw man. You misrepresented the goal of this proposition in an attempt to argue something completely irrelevant - alcohol tax.
If we're talking common sense, the common sense argument is that marijuana is already so easily accessible that anyone that wants to smoke presently already does so. Have you heard anyone say, "I can't wait until pot is legal so I can toke up"? Of course not. They already do. The whole premise behind this is that we should regulate, tax and decriminalize something THAT PEOPLE ARE ALREADY DOING anyway.
Religious people tend to live their lives in fear. It's simply the way they were indoctrinated. Fear of rapture, sinning, hell, etc. This simply plays into that pattern. The fear of more people using marijuana once legal is nothing more than that, fear, and this thread has proven that based on the posters that oppose this. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that more people would use if legalized and to suggest otherwise is simply fear-mongering.
So you're okay with planting opium poppies as well? Just wondering... I mean, it's a plant and people are using it anyway right?
I like the municipal control idea, I think that would really help alleviate concerns of residents in say Gilbert compared to Tempe or Tucson.
These are great points, one issue with marijuana is marketing, cigarettes were shamed out of existence with those "Truth" ads that came out a few years ago. Yet, edible marijuana looks like gummy bears.
At a minimum this needs to be removed as a schedule 1 narcotic, it should be researched for its impact on health more thoroughly, I am an advocate for allowing marijuana legalization as my posts have indicated. But I know people that will make ridiculous claims like "it's good for you," that needs to be disproven. It's a recreational activity like beer, and like beer its not good for you.
Now this is reasonable and what I've been saying all along. My wife has used Cannabis CBD's to help her back pain and she enjoys a toke occasionally so I'm no "refer madness" kind of person, though I gave it up years ago as it started to induce a severe case of paranoia which was NOT fun.
I DO think many in the pro legalization crowd have been intellectually dishonest by not addressing the obvious issues PRIOR to the push for legalization and completely ignored the corporate/government greed that is behind that push all for the ability to get stoned.
I wonder, does anyone think the new administration might take any different of a tack on federal enforcement or lack thereof regarding marijuana use in states of the union?
Ultimately, this is going to be the closest thing to watch. All the legal marijuana laws that states have passed have happened during the now outgoing administration's tenure. While I am glad that the executive used its administrative 'power' to prevent enforcement of the federal laws against said legalization, I feel that it was extra legal for it to do so. I hope the incoming administration will take more positive measures to put in writing for perpetuity protecting these states' rights to legalize (or not) recreational marijuana.
Though I did vote for this measure on my early ballot, the more I thought about it, I am glad it did fail as written. Next time, a look at the law in Washington and/or Oregon state would be a better way to go. Sure the WA law has a 25% tax; but it also put regulation in the already existing Liquor board, the fees to become a producer, packager, and retailer are WAY more reasonable, and it set actual defined limits and testing protocols for DUI marijuana. What I like about OR law over WA is that individuals can grow for personal use, in fact, in OR you can also by seedlings.
It is going to be interesting to see what our new administration will do with what the Feds would call "rogue states".
Will Trump follow his statements that he's going to enforce the laws of the U.S. or will he choose to ignore this as Obama has been doing?
I'd be nervous if I was a pot shop owner right now, we very well could go back to what happened a few years ago when the feds pulled massive raids in several states on medical MJ shops and wiped them out.
It's going to be an interesting year or two that's for sure...
To be honest, I guess I'd like to see the Feds tell the states "shut down your recreational shops, we are going to lower MJ to a Schedule 1 drug and look into full legalization when we get national standards in place, and that will be a priority."
I would prefer it be handled nationally just like the DUI laws were brought into one standard law.
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I mean, it's a plant and people are using it anyway right?
