Bought vehicle with out being told it had major frame damage (for sale by owner, 2014)

[tomridn]

My son purchased a vehicle 5m ago it took 2 m before he got it to pass emmisions and reliable enough to drive it. Two days ago he drove it to flagstaff so that I could check it out . Upon checking it out noticed the frame had been bent inspecting more nticed it had been cut and welded at crusaul stress points right where motor mounts are can he sue to get his money back

[DougStark]

Talk to a frame straightening shop/expert. Maybe the truck should have been changed to "salvage title"?

[Bummer]

I agree with DougStark . . .

Obviously your son did not have it professionally inspected prior to purchase but did he run a CarFax Report? Not the final word, however, it would be interesting to know it the obvious damage had been reported.

As far as "money back" is concerned . . . unfortunately, this sale probably falls in the category of AS IS and unless some type of fraud is involved, your son is just out of luck.

[beckerd2]

Did he buy it from a "For sale by Owner" or from a car lot? Did he sign anything that said "As-Is, no warranty?"

You have to give more information. Car lots are suppose to make the car a salvage title if it has a bent frame.
If the title doesn't show salvage then it was probably first registered in another state and then when they brought it to Arizona they didn't tell the DMV to put it on there. Happens all the time. That is why you have to do a Car Fax report.

Car lots might be held liable since they are legally responsible to sell road safe vehicles but we don't know what your son has signed and what he was told.
If he bought it from a "by owner", then he won't have much luck because most of those sales are as-is and you can't prove that the owner knew about it.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by beckerd2

Did he buy it from a "For sale by Owner" or from a car lot? Did he sign anything that said "As-Is, no warranty?"

You have to give more information. Car lots are suppose to make the car a salvage title if it has a bent frame.
If the title doesn't show salvage then it was probably first registered in another state and then when they brought it to Arizona they didn't tell the DMV to put it on there. Happens all the time. That is why you have to do a Car Fax report.

Car lots might be held liable since they are legally responsible to sell road safe vehicles but we don't know what your son has signed and what he was told.
If he bought it from a "by owner", then he won't have much luck because most of those sales are as-is and you can't prove that the owner knew about it.

Car lots don’t “make the car a salvage title”. Insurance companies determine if a car is totaled and then salvaged. You also can’t simply register a car in a new state and get a clean title by “not telling the DMV to put it on there”.

[beckerd2]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

Car lots don’t “make the car a salvage title”. Insurance companies determine if a car is totaled and then salvaged. You also can’t simply register a car in a new state and get a clean title by “not telling the DMV to put it on there”.

Do you're research before smacking yourself in the head...

Its called Title Washing

Here educate yourself....
https://www.cars.com/articles/2014/0...e-washed-cars/


Oh yeah, thinking you have a clean title and it pops up when you try to register has happened before. There are criminals everywhere....especially in the state of Arizona. If you're bored...it has happened to this person...

https://www.reddit.com/r/askcarsales...turns_out_its/

I guess I should have said the car lots are suppose to legally disclose if a car has a clean title or not.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by beckerd2

Do you're research before smacking yourself in the head...

Its called Title Washing

Here educate yourself....
https://www.cars.com/articles/2014/0...e-washed-cars/

What about your claim that car lots salvage cars? Totally inaccurate bad information.

Apparently you didn’t read your own link. It’s about flood-branded cars and speaks to states that don’t brand for flood damage. That’s totally off-topic as frame damage has nothing to do with floods. It’s VERY hard to simply remove a title brand by registering it another state. Your claim that one can get a clean title simply by not “telling the DMV (actually MVD) about the brand” is totally wrong as well.

[beckerd2]

Stop skimming what you read. They were giving an example of flood damage cars. I also corrected myself by saying this in my previous post "I guess I should have said the car lots are suppose to legally disclose if a car has a clean title or not."

Here I'll copy and paste from that article....don't focus so much on flood damage cars. They are talking about how people get away with this criminal activity....


How It Happens
So what exactly is title washing? It's what happens when someone alters the "brand" on a vehicle title; that is, the car's legal status as a flood vehicle, salvage vehicle or anything else that isn't "clean." And it often happens when someone moves the car from the state where it was "branded" to a different state with different branding requirements. That might be a state where cars of a certain age (7 or 8 years old, for example) are exempt from branding, or a state that doesn't even have flood branding.

Title washing is dubious, to say the least. The FBI calls it fraudulent and corrupt, and the International Association of Auto Theft Investigators noted in July 2014 that it's a federal crime.

Why It Happens
Why does it occur? Because the washers want to sell the car.

"Someone has a salvage car that they bought cheap — or stole — and now they want to sell it for a lot more," National Insurance Crime Bureau spokesman Frank Scafidi told us. "But to do so, they have to create a phony title for cover."

That altered title can help sell a damaged car for a lot more than it normally would. Cars that have avoided a title brand altogether — an equally dubious act known as brand avoidance, where a car should have received a salvage, flood or other not-so-clean brand but didn't — can also draw much better prices.

"Questionable actions by elements of the insurance and salvage disposal infrastructure [result] in title branding avoidance," wrote Howard Nusbaum, the administrator of the National Salvage Vehicle Reporting Program, in the IAATI article. And insurers furnish about 80 percent of the 3.5 million cars sold at salvage auction in the U.S. each year, he noted in that article.

[beckerd2]

Originally Posted by beckerd2

Stop skimming what you read. They were giving an example of flood damage cars. I also corrected myself by saying this in my previous post "I guess I should have said the car lots are suppose to legally disclose if a car has a clean title or not."

Here I'll copy and paste from that article....don't focus so much on flood damage cars. They are talking about how people get away with this criminal activity....


How It Happens
So what exactly is title washing? It's what happens when someone alters the "brand" on a vehicle title; that is, the car's legal status as a flood vehicle, salvage vehicle or anything else that isn't "clean." And it often happens when someone moves the car from the state where it was "branded" to a different state with different branding requirements. That might be a state where cars of a certain age (7 or 8 years old, for example) are exempt from branding, or a state that doesn't even have flood branding.

Title washing is dubious, to say the least. The FBI calls it fraudulent and corrupt, and the International Association of Auto Theft Investigators noted in July 2014 that it's a federal crime.

Why It Happens
Why does it occur? Because the washers want to sell the car.

"Someone has a salvage car that they bought cheap — or stole — and now they want to sell it for a lot more," National Insurance Crime Bureau spokesman Frank Scafidi told us. "But to do so, they have to create a phony title for cover."

That altered title can help sell a damaged car for a lot more than it normally would. Cars that have avoided a title brand altogether — an equally dubious act known as brand avoidance, where a car should have received a salvage, flood or other not-so-clean brand but didn't — can also draw much better prices.

"Questionable actions by elements of the insurance and salvage disposal infrastructure [result] in title branding avoidance," wrote Howard Nusbaum, the administrator of the National Salvage Vehicle Reporting Program, in the IAATI article. And insurers furnish about 80 percent of the 3.5 million cars sold at salvage auction in the U.S. each year, he noted in that article.

Here is another link from CarFax that talks about Title Washing.
https://www.carfax.com/press/resourc...-title-washing

I guess I should have put that one first since that article focuses on all matter of cars that may have salvage titles. Read carefully, don't get too hung up by an example they may have put in there.

[DetroitN8V]

And what state doesn’t recognize an insurance total as a brand on title? What you seem to be claiming as commonplace is quite rare. The flood scenario is the most likey case, although still far-fetched, but frame damage will be recognized anywhere. I’d be highly surprised if the vehicle in question was “title washed”. Rather than spinning this into some conspiracy theory, how about considering the most likely scenario? The vehicle probably has a valid clean title because an insurance claim was never filed for the damage. That’s far more likely and why buyer beware should always be paramount.