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Old 10-24-2012, 05:44 AM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 3,559,831 times
Reputation: 5518

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So... in full disclosure I am a retired policeman and have never liked drugs

Im from California.. Redding.. way up in the tip of Northern California

I am in the midst of the Emerald triangle, one of the best places in the US for growing marijuana

and I have watched it's proliferation ruin the entire area.. entire counties...

Whether you agree or disagree about the efficacy of MM the purpose of my post is to tell you what impact it has had on my community,,, and how your vote will substantially and potentially negatively alter your communities forever.

The violation of federal law and states rights will continually be an issue. Local governments will struggle on how and if to control it through ordinances, inspections, and enforcement. The negative costs to the community are huge and are not positively offset by generated tax revenue... that was a pipe dream ..no pun intended

The diminution of land value has been staggering.... whether its your neighbor growing smelly plants or entire communities being razed to make way for grows. The environmental costs and damage to the eco-systems has been unheard of here. Shasta Trinity Siskiyou Humboldt counties all have had huge amounts of land destroyed by greedy growers.. water systems polluted and destroyed by chemical use and overuse.
The criminal element has overwhelmed LEO as even the little backyard grow can generate 30k a year in illegal funds. Small Sheriffs departments dont even have the manpower to do compliance inspections... and in reality there has been little (self) compliance. I think of places like Stone County with 6 deputies and wonder... no way.. they cant control anything.. it will be a free for all as it has been here in California Dopers smoke in public places..and the drug is so readily available that it has now become the drug of choice by our youth,,, Great message to our children who trim for their parents or see it growing behind the backstop of their baseball diamond at school

Our 215 law is such a joke that anyone can get MM for anything.. and do.. there are entire populations of our citizens that exist on drugs for conditions so far removed from any potential MM beneficial use that it is laughable. My opinion, from personal observation, is that many MM recipients also use social welfare.. so now not only do we pay for them we accept a drug that will reduce their ability to be motivated to work in any fashion. My county of about 160k went from a couple of thousand recommendations in the first couple of years to more than a quarter of the population in three years. Out of town doctors were showing up making 10k in a day handing out recommendations like candy....once again..our liberal 215 language was so murky it made it easy.

We are now dealing with such an overwhelming influence of dirt-bags moving in that entire communities are changing... and changing quickly. Major drug rips, robberies, burglaries, dope grow violence has sky rocketed... meth use also has gone hand in hand with MM use.. think tweakers wont be more involved.. ha..

Its not worth it... its ruined California...talk to anyone who doesn't use drugs here.. they will probably agree that what they voted for is not what came out the other end.. and if they could put the genie back in the bottle they would.... but we cant...once drugs have a full court press in your community they will NEVER be stopped

Lastly.. and most importantly..its dumbed down an entire segment of our population. It has dampened the human spirit.. and made service before self a vague memory. I cannot think of a more hedonistic, selfish,self serving activity than MJ use to blur out reality and motivation. Ultimately a life less sweet.. less satisfying.. and less worth living.

Its just a nebulous weed .. and government shouldn't be involved in our personal lives right...wow.. that thinking will get you screwed trust me.. many Californians felt this way before the onslaught on narcotics controlling our communities... now they are begging for intervention


Dont do it.. you will be sorry beyond your wildest dreams

I want to move to your beautiful state... NOT having the free and open use of MJ.. and MM was one of the reasons I considered Arkansas...

I hope MM doesnt happen

 
Old 10-24-2012, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,584,187 times
Reputation: 3589
You site illegal grow operations that have no controls or regulations.

a "legal" grow operations are monitored and regulated by the state.

Illegal growers do not want this to pass at it will lower the price and possibility remove the incentive to grow, IE money.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 3,559,831 times
Reputation: 5518
Moderator cut: snip

If anyone thinks that regulation and inspection can control massive grow operations..legal or illegal.. they cannot.. the burden of legal operations far outstrip any reasonable enforcement abilities... so you .. the larger you.. the voters believing anything the state can do as far as inspection and enforcement means giving over your community to the government.... we have seen all too well how that works..or not.

Taxing was a joke.. even Oakland,, now known as "Tokeland..which openly embraced MM use is seeing the transformation of its community for the negative.. they tried to put a good spin on it.. but those who purvey drugs dont generally want to follow laws

I am far from close minded... I am a proponent of any drug for end of life and serious chronic illnesses,,, but not in the manner that it got sold to the California voters.. today prop 215 would not pass.

The purpose of this post is for Arkansas voters to take a critical look at California.. and how MM has changed communities here... they may not want it...

Moderator cut: off topic

As an aside... this post was for the benefit of Arkansas residents.. whose input I am interested in.

Last edited by Kimballette; 10-24-2012 at 07:15 PM.. Reason: orphaned - responding to deleted comments & off topic
 
Old 10-24-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,584,187 times
Reputation: 3589
Legal grow operations are regulated and they do have the manpower to inspect them on a regular bases.
You can't get a permit with out inspection.

No permit or inspection = illegal.

Massive grow operations can't be regulated or inspected.
Even they have to account for every plant, or ounce.

In California, The permits -- popular in the medical marijuana community for the peace of mind they fostered -- allowed medicinal cannabis collectives to grow up to 99 plants, with a fee structure including inspections and zip-tie identification markers for each plant.The annual application and initial inspection cost $1,500, with each zip tie costing $50. Monthly inspections cost from $300 to $600 per month, according to Sheriff's Sgt. Randy Johnson, who's in charge of the program. Last year, 94 cannabis farmers signed up for the program, which generated $663,230 for the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office just from July through December, according to county officials.

your operation will also be inspected by the fire marshal before the grow operations start,

Preparing a controlled substance bylaw:
• Use regulatory language, be aware of provisions of the Criminal Code, and be
detailed about the team’s conduct. There is no need to refer to federal criminal
jurisdiction.
• Focus on public safety objectives, such as electrical hazards, strengthening
neighbourhoods, and improving community safety.
• Include a definition of controlled substances rather than referencing the federal
Controlled Drug and Substances Act.
• Provide 24 hours notice for inspections rather than 48 hours notice.
• Include an internal reconsideration process for files, to provide a non-biased
look at the file prior to posting or conducting an inspection.
Conducting public safety inspections:
• Develop operational procedures for the team and adhere to the bylaw’s policies
and procedures.
• Provide training and materials on the signs of hazards in grow operations.
• Keep good records of safety hazards, including pictures and detailed field notes.
• Gather specific evidence in as much detail as possible.
• Whenever possible, avoid puncturing walls or doing damage to the property.
• Have clear guidelines for when to take corrective steps, such as disconnecting
power or revoking occupancy.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 3,559,831 times
Reputation: 5518
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
Legal grow operations are regulated and they do have the manpower to inspect them on a regular bases.
You can't get a permit with out inspection.

No permit or inspection = illegal.

Massive grow operations can't be regulated or inspected.
Even they have to account for every plant, or ounce.

In California, The permits -- popular in the medical marijuana community for the peace of mind they fostered -- allowed medicinal cannabis collectives to grow up to 99 plants, with a fee structure including inspections and zip-tie identification markers for each plant.The annual application and initial inspection cost $1,500, with each zip tie costing $50. Monthly inspections cost from $300 to $600 per month, according to Sheriff's Sgt. Randy Johnson, who's in charge of the program. Last year, 94 cannabis farmers signed up for the program, which generated $663,230 for the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office just from July through December, according to county officials.

your operation will also be inspected by the fire marshal before the grow operations start,

Preparing a controlled substance bylaw:
• Use regulatory language, be aware of provisions of the Criminal Code, and be
detailed about the team’s conduct. There is no need to refer to federal criminal
jurisdiction.
• Focus on public safety objectives, such as electrical hazards, strengthening
neighbourhoods, and improving community safety.
• Include a definition of controlled substances rather than referencing the federal
Controlled Drug and Substances Act.
• Provide 24 hours notice for inspections rather than 48 hours notice.
• Include an internal reconsideration process for files, to provide a non-biased
look at the file prior to posting or conducting an inspection.
Conducting public safety inspections:
• Develop operational procedures for the team and adhere to the bylaw’s policies
and procedures.
• Provide training and materials on the signs of hazards in grow operations.
• Keep good records of safety hazards, including pictures and detailed field notes.
• Gather specific evidence in as much detail as possible.
• Whenever possible, avoid puncturing walls or doing damage to the property.
• Have clear guidelines for when to take corrective steps, such as disconnecting
power or revoking occupancy.
Im not sure where you're getting your information from... but it is not complete..nor correct. You are referring to a state program.. the ability to adhere to it isnt even within the realm of reality for local LEO... and in my county LEO reports a very low compliance. The drugsters know their chances of being caught for non compliance are so low its just about improbable. Even those grossly out of compliance rarely get caught. The 420/215 law is so poorly written many LEO agencies are sitting on the sidelines awaiting clearer direction.

You are speaking about collectives...I am speaking about wholesale legalization including individual grows

In my county collectives are illegal.. although the City of Redding has allowed them... then realized it cannot violate federal law and outlawed them (and now wishes they had nothing to do with drug dealers).. through the permitting process...which has created lawsuits back and forth while we the citizenry await their closure..

Other counties in California are at loggerheads as to what to do... its a mess beyond belief

Now the feds are stepping in and closing large collectives statewide.. hoping to make an example and have others follow suit... which has only created lawsuit after lawsuit and federal prosecutions

Perhaps you would like to comment on the state where you live... so that people in Arkansas can make up their own mind.. benefited by your personal experience in your own state

Moderator cut: off topic

Last edited by Kimballette; 10-24-2012 at 07:30 PM..
 
Old 10-24-2012, 07:19 PM
 
3,391 posts, read 6,316,939 times
Reputation: 3805
Folks, I understand this is a hot button issue. But this thread in this forum is about one thing - issue 5 - medical marijuana in Arkansas. Any other discussion belongs in another forum and will be deleted going forward. Thanks for your cooperation.
 
Old 10-25-2012, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
75,590 posts, read 88,318,961 times
Reputation: 46411
I have seen what has happened in Ca, I have a lot of relatives still there. When it is sold in pill form, and with a perscription only (not just a recommendation from a doctor) I will support a bill, but not now. The argument, it isn't as bad as alcohol is a cop out. Whether it is or isn't, it still does damage and we have enough mind altering substances on the market now.

Nita
 
Old 10-25-2012, 06:12 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 16,739,247 times
Reputation: 7618
Well, as a former chemo recipient, I fully support medical marijuana. I have to admit to use in my teen years and ONCE while getting chemo...all it did was wire me out, the total opposite effect of what I thought it would have, but it stopped the nausea in it's tracks. The fact that I couldn't string two sentences together and keep one thought going was my undoing - I had the monkey mind and I have to maintain some kind of control. But I would have happily traded off whatever "damage" could be caused and any monkey mind to avoid having to go back into ICU for dehydration from nausea and vomiting. Oh, yessirree, I surely would have. But I'm a former police officer - my sense of lawful versus unlawful caught up with me :-)

Folks, people who are suffering need whatever relief they can get. In the medical context yes, I fully support it and will vote for such. It's not just for cancer patients and glaucoma, it's also useful for multiple sclerosis, ALS, Tourette's, Chron's disease, and some forms of Alzheimer's. I'm sure all of us have had some experience with at least one person we know having one of these. My problem is actually people being able to grow it themselves and being designated as caregivers because the patient is more than 5 miles from a nonprofit dispensary...seriously? But their doctor is within 5 miles? Not hardly. The distance factor doesn't make sense to me. I surely think the "designated caregiver" kicks the door wide open for abuse of the system....my other problem is trying to explain to some worker at ADH just exactly WHY someone I love would qualify. Those people can tie you up in paper for months.

All in all, while I don't think it's perfect wording, I'm still for it. I am watching someone live through Stage IV breast cancer right now, and if my conscience would let me I'd have grow lights in the bathroom.
 
Old 10-25-2012, 01:08 PM
 
5,717 posts, read 8,907,869 times
Reputation: 7947
As someone who has never used MJ (Or any other illegal drugs) But as someone who has a permanent narcotics prescription (Provided by the US government, and your tax dollars) I'd like the opportunity to use a more natural substance which wasn't destroying my liver and kidneys...

But I won't till the Gov't gets over itself and makes it legal.
 
Old 10-25-2012, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Fayetteville
1,205 posts, read 2,395,957 times
Reputation: 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I have seen what has happened in Ca, I have a lot of relatives still there. When it is sold in pill form, and with a perscription only (not just a recommendation from a doctor) I will support a bill, but not now.

Nita
MARINOL (dronabinol capsules)
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